2nd marriage, wife doesn't want to be sealed...


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I'm in despair and have sought out advice which led me to this message board. I am a non-active member of the church and haven't been active in over 20 years. I haven't been anti-church and often find myself standing up for the church in circles of friends. I went on a mission, was married a year after I came home and had 6 children over the following 12 years. My 1st wife left the church and ended our marriage. My family was split in half and I ended up raising my two youngest daughters on my own. My ex-wife wouldn't allow our two boys to move in with me but this past year they both asked to live with me and my new wife. To my main point, I was remarried 3 years ago to a woman with 2 children. I wasn't looking to get married but she kept after me and actually asked me to please marry her. I said no for several months and then realized I really did love her. I said yes and we had a civil marriage with just our parents and children at the ceremony. She is active and I am not. She wears her garments, is faithful to no end. I haven't worn garments in 12 years. Recently my sons have been asking about getting baptized and I had the missionaries give the discussions. I started going to church regularly and thought this is a nice change and a good direction. The stake president asked us to meet with him and during the conversation he asked if we are getting sealed. I was excited and said I would like it very much. My wife said no, she didn't want to because she was already sealed to her ex-husband and she had a testimony about it. It was like cold water slowly covering my body, I was shocked and saddened. The topic would come up, on her account, from time to time and she expressed to me that she wanted this very much. Some more info, her ex-husband left her while she was pregnant with their 2nd child. He had an affair and left his wife for another woman. Last year her ex-husband committed suicide leaving me as the only father figure for the two youngest children. She doesn't want to be sealed to me, rather, she wants to stay sealed to her ex-husband. How do I deal with her wanting her ex-husband that committed adultery during pregnancy and abandoning her over choosing me? I am stunned at this development because I am the antithesis of her ex-husband. Her ex-husband was also more inactive than I ever was. I'm crushed, absolutely devastated and am thinking I'd rather be single again and live in my solitude.  

Edited by JVernet
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First of all you need to understand that this is not about you...  As much as it might feel like it is... it is not.

When she was Sealed she made personal covenants with God... so did her ex.  He broke his.  She has no intention of breaking hers and she plans to live up to everyone of them to the best of her ability regardless of her ex.  In this day an age where people are breaking and ignoring covenants left and right she is holding true, to the best of her understanding, that should be cause for celebration not concern.

But now you have a choice to make... either being Sealed to her now is a deal breaker for your marriage for you or it is not.  If it really and truly is... then tell her.. and let her deal and adjust however she feels is necessary.

If it is not a deal breaker then move forward having faith that the Lord will work everything out, if not in this life then in the life to come.

Of course whatever you do should be a matter of humble and heartfelt prayer seeking the Lord's will.

Edited by estradling75
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26 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

If it is not a deal breaker then move forward having faith that the Lord will work everything out, if not in this life then in the life to come.

Of course whatever you do should be a matter of humble and heartfelt prayer seeking the Lord's will.

^^That.  I think you should try to give it more time.

At one point in your story, you indicated she had said she did want to be sealed to you, but told the SP she did not.  Did I misunderstand, did she change her mind, or is this a case of "she wishes she could be, but feels she can't be because of prior covenants"?  I think you need to work that out with her to be sure you're clear on where she is.  And you should note that her feelings may change over time.  (It generally takes about 5 years for a person to recover from a significant loss like the ones you're describing - divorce or death - and can take longer.)

There's a couple in my ward.  Both were previously sealed and had children with their previous spouses.  The previous spouses passed away in mid-life.  This couple met after both deaths, fell in love, and had a civil marriage and children (and the Lord guided them in all this).  They love each other deeply.  Neither can or will break the previous sealing (and don't want to - they loved their previous spouses and had children with them) and yet they wish they could be sealed to each other and their children.  Neither knows how all this will be resolved in the eternities, but they have faith it will be.

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1 hour ago, JVernet said:

I'm in despair and have sought out advice which led me to this message board. I am a non-active member of the church and haven't been active in over 20 years. I haven't been anti-church and often find myself standing up for the church in circles of friends. I went on a mission, was married a year after I came home and had 6 children over the following 12 years. My 1st wife left the church and ended our marriage. My family was split in half and I ended up raising my two youngest daughters on my own. My ex-wife wouldn't allow our two boys to move in with me but this past year they both asked to live with me and my new wife. To my main point, I was remarried 3 years ago to a woman with 2 children. I wasn't looking to get married but she kept after me and actually asked me to please marry her. I said no for several months and then realized I really did love her. I said yes and we had a civil marriage with just our parents and children at the ceremony. She is active and I am not. She wears her garments, is faithful to no end. I haven't worn garments in 12 years. Recently my sons have been asking about getting baptized and I had the missionaries give the discussions. I started going to church regularly and thought this is a nice change and a good direction. The stake president asked us to meet with him and during the conversation he asked if we are getting sealed. I was excited and said I would like it very much. My wife said no, she didn't want to because she was already sealed to her ex-husband and she had a testimony about it. It was like cold water slowly covering my body, I was shocked and saddened. The topic would come up, on her account, from time to time and she expressed to me that she wanted this very much. Some more info, her ex-husband left her while she was pregnant with their 2nd child. He had an affair and left his wife for another woman. Last year her ex-husband committed suicide leaving me as the only father figure for the two youngest children. She doesn't want to be sealed to me, rather, she wants to stay sealed to her ex-husband. How do I deal with her wanting her ex-husband that committed adultery during pregnancy and abandoning her over choosing me? I am stunned at this development because I am the antithesis of her ex-husband. Her ex-husband was also more inactive than I ever was. I'm crushed, absolutely devastated and am thinking I'd rather be single again and live in my solitude.  

Tough situation!

I cannot read your wife's mind, and I would say things is primary about her feelings/thoughts/beliefs.  I would suggest that you and she need to have deep conversation about this, possibly getting some info from the bishop/stake president.  I suspect her hesitance is not an attachment to the past husband, but the fact that she made a covenant and is not going to change it without some serious prayer/thought/consul.  

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Of all the faith-testing situations I've heard about, a person raising kids sealed to their spouses ex ranks in the top three.  I've had some faith tested, but not really in such heart-wrenching amounts.  So I feel ill-advised to suggest anything, but I will suggest this:

Question 1: Do you believe God is who He claims to be?
Question 2: If yes, do you believe God would leave a good man who devoted years of his life to a woman and her kids, out in the cold during the eterneties?

If the answer to both questions is yes, then this is a time to place faith and trust in the Lord - even though none of us have the faintest clue how He'll do His infinite love thing here.  

 

My wife is sealed to her parents' family - including the incestuous brothers and enabling parents who turned a blind eye to the events happening in their home, and turned against the victims, because to admit the truth threatened the fake image of the perfect Mormon family.   My wife takes comfort in her faith and trust that this will all get sorted in the afterlife - that she won't be forced to be around hurtful people who cause pain in the eternities, even though she's sealed to them. It doesn't make sense otherwise, right?

God bless.

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It isn't clear in what you said what her motives are, and I suspect you haven't asked her, perhaps out of fear of what the answer will be.  She may think she has an obligation to keep that sealing in place, or feel it is a matter of her personal loyalty or  obedience and righteousness to not end that covenant.  She may see it as his only 'lifeline' to exaltation and not want to be responsible for not cutting it, or have some other reason that is not about her feelings for you verses her feelings for him, perhaps because of the kids they have sealed to them.  I know you don't want to hear this, but there were good things in their relationship too and letting go can be hard.  She may need more time, even lots more time before she is ready to cut her last tie with him.  Sometimes people get stuck hoping for a better history when things don't go the way they wanted.

Have you expressed to her how you feel about this?  She may have assumed that since you were not active that you just didn't care about being sealed to her.  She may not understand how this makes you feel and what meaning you are attaching to this.

There is nothing doctrinal that obligates her to keep that sealing in place, the process of getting that sealing canceled requires approval from the First Presidency.  They make the judgement call as to if the sealing should be kept in place or not.

And just because a couple is sealed in a temple doesn't mean they will be together for eternity.  While the Spirit World gives people a chance at repentance it is not a second chance at exaltation.  We are all judged based on our works in mortality.  He is dead so it is too late for him to change his record, and his record as you describe it is one of not keeping his temple covenants. 

 

Unless there was some special circumstance to reduce his accountability it sounds like he is not going to be anybody's husband in the eternities and you have good reason to expect that their sealing will not qualify for lasting after this life.  She might not want to judge him or give up on him right now, but if you bide your time without making it an issue, keep moving in the right direction spiritually, and keep loving her, she may reach a point where she is ready to take that step with you.  And if she doesn't get to that point in mortality your kids or grandkids can do a proxy sealing of you two so if her ex doesn't qualify for the CK or he wants to be with somebody else, she will be yours instead.

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40 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

It isn't clear in what you said what her motives are...

@JVernet,

I wanted to quote all of what @Latter-Day Marriage said.  Cut for brevity.  But that was right on.

With the usual disclaimer that we're only getting one side, I'm having trouble understanding her motivation for not wanting to cancel the sealing.  "...she had a testimony about it."  What does that mean?  He committed adultery, abandoned her and the kids, and eventually committed suicide.  I don't know what to make of that.  

On the other hand, maybe she knew the good parts of him.  She misses that.  And there was something that wasn't right in the head with the guy.  I don't know how adultery, abandoning, and suicide will be forgiven considering the circumstances (much of which we apparently don't know).  All those are pretty serious sins.  Have you asked the bishop to talk to her about it, so he can at least give the theological guidance on the matter (i.e. in the eyes of God, would she still be sealed to him)?

--I'm going to go out on a limb.  I don't mean to make an accusation.  I'm just thinking way outside the box.  Is it possible that she isn't being quite honest about their relationship and how the marriage ended?  Maybe if she gets it cancelled, there is something that she has kept hidden that would have to come out?

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You state that you are/were inactive, yet you marry an active woman in the church. Clearly a temple marriage was not at the top of your priority list, as you stated she asked you to marry her and hounded you about  it until you said yes.

Now you have been attending church for awhile and a sealing seems like a great idea? 

Did you guys discuss temple marriage before you were married civilly?

I'm playing the devil's advocate here but why would she want to be sealed to you? Not to pick on you but is it your unshaken commitment to church attendance? Or your commitment to keeping the covenants that you made in the temple? 

All I'm saying is pump the brakes a little bit. I am sure that you are good husband and father, she will see this and come around on it. I personally wouldn't bring it up again. 

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Guest LiterateParakeet

JVernet, I think that sounds really painful too.  I agree with Latter-Day Marriage.  I think it is important to talk to her about your feelings, and to find out where she is coming from.  

I hope you find some peace.  So sorry for your pain.

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I can see how that would be very hard for you.   But if I were you, I would just love her and be everything my Heavenly Father expected of me.   At some point she may agree to be sealed to you.  But if not, she may be sealed to you after both of you are dead (since they allow that for all legal marriages).   I suspect she has a problem with trust and doesn't see the point because she is afraid you will divorce her too.   She might feel differently if you make a good marriage for the next while.

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Do adulterers inherit the Celestial kingdom? 

"19    Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 

20    Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 

21    Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21)

 

What good is a sealing if it is to one that will not inherit the kingdom of God?

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10 hours ago, Sadliers said:

What good is a sealing if it is to one that will not inherit the kingdom of God?

Well, of course I can't speak for the OP, but the answer I often hear is this: They're hoping the sinful ex will repent and change, avail themselves of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and live worthily to inherit the kingdom of God.

It's a legitimate hope, right?  I mean, it's not the level of hope that keeps someone single and longing for their ex, but it is the kind of hope born of love and forgiveness (at least it seems so to me).

Edited by NeuroTypical
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23 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Well, of course I can't speak for the OP, but the answer I often hear is this: They're hoping the sinful ex will repent and change, avail themselves of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and live worthily to inherit the kingdom of God.

It's a legitimate hope, right?  I mean, it's not the level of hope that keeps someone single and longing for their ex, but it is the kind of hope born of love and forgiveness (at least it seems so to me).

If they truly repent then you're absolutely right!!! But the guy appears to have killed himself before repenting and that is likely what allowed an evil spirit to take control which led to the suicide. One does not commit suicide that is filled with the Spirit and one is filled with the Spirit when they truly repent. Those that die in their sins are not exaltation bound. If one will not be exalted then the temple sealing is of no benefit or purpose. The wife's false hope, borne in love, may not be in her best interest. 

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I did miss the part about the suicide, but I'm sticking with my answer.  We humans aren't equipped with the tools to judge the ex-husband, his mental state before or during his suicide, the state of his soul before his suicide, nor the impact his suicide will have on his eternal soul.  Especially we humans reading about stuff on a message board.  We aren't equipped to judge righteously, and can't righteously call such hope 'false'. 

Something to consider: Assuming your guess is correct, if the ex wasn't in control of his actions, he won't be held accountable.   From LDS.org:

Quote

Although it is wrong to take one's own life, a person who commits suicide may not be responsible for his or her acts. Only God can judge such a matter. Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles has said:

“Obviously, we do not know the full circumstances surrounding every suicide. Only the Lord knows all the details, and he it is who will judge our actions here on earth.  When he does judge us, I feel he will take all things into consideration: our genetic and chemical makeup, our mental state, our intellectual capacity, the teachings we have received, the traditions of our fathers, our health, and so forth.” 

 

Edited by NeuroTypical
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6 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I did miss the part about the suicide, but I'm sticking with my answer.  We humans aren't equipped with the tools to judge the ex-husband, his mental state before or during his suicide, the state of his soul before his suicide, nor the impact his suicide will have on his eternal soul.  Especially we humans reading about stuff on a message board.  We aren't equipped to judge righteously, and can't righteously call such hope 'false'. 

Something to consider: Assuming your guess is correct, if the ex wasn't in control of his actions, he won't be held accountable.   From LDS.org:

 

You're right and I apologize. I was coming back to delete my comment but you had already replied. 

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On 2016-03-25 at 3:18 PM, NeuroTypical said:

I did miss the part about the suicide, but I'm sticking with my answer.  We humans aren't equipped with the tools to judge the ex-husband, his mental state before or during his suicide, the state of his soul before his suicide, nor the impact his suicide will have on his eternal soul.  Especially we humans reading about stuff on a message board.  We aren't equipped to judge righteously, and can't righteously call such hope 'false'.

 

Suicide aside, there is the fact that he violated his covenants by having an affair and it doesn't seem that he tried at any point to go back to his first wife, so it's reasonable to think he doesn't want to be her husband.  The sealing is not only conditional on both spouses living worthy of the CK, but also on both spouses wanting to continue as spouses after this life.  While there is a theoretical possibility that she will be able to be with her first husband, I think the chance is rather small that everything will line up to make that happen.

I would hope she would make her choice based on the desires of her heart, she is not obligated to remain sealed to that man unless the First Presidency denies her a cancellation of the sealing.

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  • 3 months later...

Follow Up. It's been nothing but ups and downs since my initial post. My wife has admitted that she's changed since her ex husband committed suicide. She is confused but is content in keeping her vows to him rather than me. Still, she said she loves me and wants to be married to me at least for this life and hopefully in the next. It's been extreme emotions since my initial post. She may have mental issues that were unaware to me in the beginning. Her father had mental issues and was excommunicated over apostasy. I don't know, she may have some mental issues. You will never meet a more dovout member, she questions nothing in terms of church. Everything else, she's a sceptic. I baptized my sons in April and their mother, my ex wife, has for all intents and purposes, abandoned them. I may find myself raising my sons alone, again. 

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JVernet, I would say there is hope for the future, hang on to that.  And really this isn't a case of her keeping her vows to him rather than you.  The vows you made with her were for that point to when one of you dies, and she is honoring those vows.  You would like her to make a new vow to you for eternity, but she isn't ready to do that.  I hope some day she will be ready.

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On 7/3/2016 at 8:44 AM, JVernet said:

Follow Up. It's been nothing but ups and downs since my initial post. My wife has admitted that she's changed since her ex husband committed suicide. She is confused but is content in keeping her vows to him rather than me. Still, she said she loves me and wants to be married to me at least for this life and hopefully in the next. It's been extreme emotions since my initial post. She may have mental issues that were unaware to me in the beginning. Her father had mental issues and was excommunicated over apostasy. I don't know, she may have some mental issues. You will never meet a more dovout member, she questions nothing in terms of church. Everything else, she's a sceptic. I baptized my sons in April and their mother, my ex wife, has for all intents and purposes, abandoned them. I may find myself raising my sons alone, again. 

I suggest you follow Omega's advice and not bring it up again.

The other issues you bring up about your marriage are not related to the eternal and everlasting covenant.  It sounds like you aren't getting this one thing (which wasn't that important anyways when you first got married) and are now considering throwing in the towel.  

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I think that you should tell her that this is important to you, but that you will submit to her in this instance.  That doesn't mean that it will stop being important to you, just that you won't try to force the issue or push her on it.  It should be completely up to her, but when she is ready, she should let you know.  It is okay to check in with her on her feelings on this from time to time, but other than that, you shouldn't bring it up.  Meanwhile, pray for her.  Pray for her heart to be softened on this.  Do everything within your power to live up to those covenants, even though it hasn't happened yet.  I know it is frustrating to have to wait on your spouse when there is something that you want so very badly that really is a righteous desire.  Give it time and prayer.  Also, it helps if you choose not to be upset or angry about it.

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