infiniteness of the atonement?

[askandanswer]

 

Could someone please tell me the origins, bases of support, and current status of the ideas/claims/teachings that:

1. Christ’s infinite atonement covers all of God’s creations, both on this world and others;

2. The physical act of the atonement occurred on this world because this was the only world faithful and righteous and worthy enough to have Christ here, and the only world wicked and sinful enough to kill Him.

 

I believe Elder McConkie spoke about this, but I was never sure of where he got these ideas from, or whether they were officially accepted by the church as doctrine.

 

Thanks

[LeSellers]

2 Nephi 9:7 Wherefore, it must needs be an infinite atonement—save it should be an infinite atonement this corruption could not put on incorruption. Wherefore, the first judgment which came upon man must needs have remained to an endless duration. And if so, this flesh must have laid down to rot and to crumble to its mother earth, to rise no more.

Alma 34:12 But the law requireth the life of him who hath murdered; therefore there can be nothing which is short of an infinite atonement which will suffice for the sins of the world.

2 Nephi 25:16 And after they have been scattered, and the Lord God hath scourged them by other nations for the space of many generations, yea, even down from generation to generation until they shall be persuaded to believe in Christ, the Son of God, and the atonement, which is infinite for all mankind—and when that day shall come that they shall believe in Christ, and worship the Father in his name, with pure hearts and clean hands, and look not forward any more for another Messiah, then, at that time, the day will come that it must needs be expedient that they should believe these things.

Works for me.

Lehi

Edited March 27, 2016 by LeSellers

[askandanswer]

3 hours ago, LeSellers said:

2 Nephi 9:7Wherefore, it must needs be an infinite atonement—save it should be an infinite atonement this corruption could not put on incorruption. Wherefore, the first judgment which came upon man must needs have remained to an endless duration. And if so, this flesh must have laid down to rot and to crumble to its mother earth, to rise no more.

Alma 34:12 But the law requireth the life of him who hath murdered; therefore there can be nothing which is short of an infinite atonement which will suffice for the sins of the world.

2 Nephi 25:16 And after they have been scattered, and the Lord God hath scourged them by other nations for the space of many generations, yea, even down from generation to generation until they shall be persuaded to believe in Christ, the Son of God, and the atonement, which is infinite for all mankind—and when that day shall come that they shall believe in Christ, and worship the Father in his name, with pure hearts and clean hands, and look not forward any more for another Messiah, then, at that time, the day will come that it must needs be expedient that they should believe these things.

Works for me.

Lehi

Does the bolded bit limit the infinite nature of the atonement to only mankind, which as far as I know, is a term limited to those who occupy this planet?

[Anddenex]

34 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

Does the bolded bit limit the infinite nature of the atonement to only mankind, which as far as I know, is a term limited to those who occupy this planet?

This would be a new limiting term for mankind, for me. All of God's creations, on this earth and all other like earth's (temple), receive a mortal body. Even animals, all of God's creations receive a resurrected body -- corruption to incorruption -- as specified in LeSellers verses shared. All is accomplished through the Lord's atonement.

Mankind, as I have understood, is any of God's creations who have taken upon themselves his image.  This would include any of our brothers and sisters being born on other planets (temple).

If God is God over other earth's, than it would be logical/rational to conclude that the Savior would be Savior over other earth's also; however, this leads to many other questions which I can't see being answered in this life, and if it was revealed, I assume then this would fall under what Nephi and other prophets experienced, "And I was constrained by the Spirit not to reveal anything more."

[LeSellers]

52 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

Does the bolded bit limit the infinite nature of the atonement to only mankind, which as far as I know, is a term limited to those who occupy this planet?

No.

As Anddenex said, all of God's children are "mankind" because all of His children are sons of Man.

All His creations are His, all the sins of the worlds He created are Atoned by means of the One.

Lehi

[askandanswer]

And any thoughts on the second part of the OP - the idea that the physical act of the atonement occurred on this world because this was the only world faithful and righteous and worthy enough to have Christ here, and the only world wicked and sinful enough to kill Him?

[Vort]

On 3/27/2016 at 2:49 AM, askandanswer said:

Could someone please tell me the origins, bases of support, and current status of the ideas/claims/teachings that:

1. Christ’s infinite atonement covers all of God’s creations, both on this world and others;

2. The physical act of the atonement occurred on this world because this was the only world faithful and righteous and worthy enough to have Christ here, and the only world wicked and sinful enough to kill Him.

 

I believe Elder McConkie spoke about this, but I was never sure of where he got these ideas from, or whether they were officially accepted by the church as doctrine.

 

Thanks

My understanding is that both of these ideas are noncanonical speculation, not settled, revealed doctrine.

God told Abraham that he (God) would show unto him (Abraham) only things that pertained to our world. This seems to me to be God's SOP. Based on this fact, I would tend to conclude that we have no information about Christ's atonement for any hypothetical "other worlds", nor do we have any real knowledge about how the posterity of Adam compare in righteousness or wickedness with any other of God's children.

So my tendency is to disbelieve such ideas. But again, I don't believe we have revealed doctrine one way or the other -- which to my mind tends to support the choice of disbelieving or at least ignoring such ideas.

[Blackmarch]

On 3/27/2016 at 3:49 AM, askandanswer said:

 

Could someone please tell me the origins, bases of support, and current status of the ideas/claims/teachings that:

1. Christ’s infinite atonement covers all of God’s creations, both on this world and others;

2. The physical act of the atonement occurred on this world because this was the only world faithful and righteous and worthy enough to have Christ here, and the only world wicked and sinful enough to kill Him.

 

I believe Elder McConkie spoke about this, but I was never sure of where he got these ideas from, or whether they were officially accepted by the church as doctrine.

 

Thanks

God must be just not only to humans but to and in all things. If Christ only covered humans then there must needs be another (or more) to cover all else- there is nothing along those lines that we have out of things i have seen or heard that says or implies this. The atonement not only provides a time and a way to overcome sin, but is also the means by which physical death is defeated- and while it may be that only humans may be capable of sinning in the technical sense, all things from the most minute particle to the greatest stars will die.

however as the scope of the scriptures only deals with god and his relations to man in this world I have no concrete or sure idea if it covers the rest of the universe... although I very much assume it does for various reasons, but if not then God will have some plan for all else.

Generally if the scriptures says "all" without any specifics attached to it then I assume that "all" refers to everything that is under God.

[Blackmarch]

On 3/27/2016 at 3:49 AM, askandanswer said:

 

Could someone please tell me the origins, bases of support, and current status of the ideas/claims/teachings that:

1. Christ’s infinite atonement covers all of God’s creations, both on this world and others;

2. The physical act of the atonement occurred on this world because this was the only world faithful and righteous and worthy enough to have Christ here, and the only world wicked and sinful enough to kill Him.

 

I believe Elder McConkie spoke about this, but I was never sure of where he got these ideas from, or whether they were officially accepted by the church as doctrine.

 

Thanks

God must be just not only to humans but to and in all things. If Christ only covered humans then there must needs be another (or more) to cover all else- there is nothing along those lines that we have out of things i have seen or heard that says or implies this. The atonement not only provides a time and a way to overcome sin, but is also the means by which physical death is defeated- and while it may be that only humans may be capable of sinning in the technical sense, all things from the most minute particle to the greatest stars will die.

however as the scope of the scriptures only deals with god and his relations to man in this world I have no concrete or sure idea if it covers the rest of the universe... although I very much assume it does for various reasons, but if not then God will have some plan for all else.

Generally if the scriptures says "all" without any specifics attached to it then I assume that "all" refers to everything that is under God.

[Blackmarch]

to add: there is only one annointed that we are told of in the pre-earth by whose blood they were able to overcome satan and his rebellion.

[rameumptom]

The temple is a metaphor for the cosmos. As far as we know, this pertains to all of Heavenly Father's creations. Whether there are other Saviors for other creations or eternal rounds, we do not know.  In the temple, we see the central issues of Creation, Fall and Atonement. This applies to all Creation within the realm of those things created within this Creation cycle/eternal round.