Going to Zion

[LeSellers]

There will come a time when the Brethren will call some people to go to Zion.

There are Saints who live there now. Do they have an advantage over the rest of us?

What might happen to someone who, on his own, decides to pull up stakes and buy a lot in downtown Independence, or in Far West, or somewhere else near the Center Stake?

Lehi

[Guest]

I think it would be premature and presumptuous to buy land there. Who knows who will get called to go? The most I've heard lately is that zion is where we are, and we need to focus on strengthening our stakes here (wherever "here" is). 

The ones there might have the advantage of not having to move. I hate moving. Moving is the worst.

[mirkwood]

There is a chapter on the topic in this book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Coming-Lord-Gerald-N-Lund/dp/1590382080/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1459091211&sr=1-1

 

 

[Anddenex]

3 hours ago, LeSellers said:

There will come a time when the Brethren will call some people to go to Zion.

There are Saints who live there now. Do they have an advantage over the rest of us?

What might happen to someone who, on his own, decides to pull up stakes and buy a lot in downtown Independence, or in Far West, or somewhere else near the Center Stake?

Lehi

Members who are currently living in the area of Zion will not have any advantage over members who are in California, New York, Australia, Russia, etc... As Eowyn mentioned, we are to strengthen our stake of Zion, which is where we live that all stakes, including Zion's stake, may be strong and a refuge from the storms to come.

The Book of Mormon teaches an interesting principle regarding "over-zealousness." The people of Zeniff were over-zealous to move back to their land of inheritance, the land of Nephi, which lead to many trials and difficulties. If the want, is from their personal desires, to buy land or move closer to either of these places, I say "Go for it," with the caveat, remember this is your personal choice.

The Book of Mormon also teaches that God will speak to some in private conversations and while others he will speak through the head of the Church, "the Brethren will all some people to go to Zion." If an individual is called, a personal calling, then they had better move.  If a person is called by the Brethren, then move also.

My concern is when members, without Stewardship, try to tell other members to move to Zion with them. If they have been impressed, then move, but allow other the same privilege in waiting either for a personal calling from the Lord, or the Brethren. If a family feels impressed to invite others, then like Nephi and his brothers, speak the words of the Lord, and then allow the Lord to impress upon their minds the same invitation to move; otherwise, leave them be.

[Guest]

What will be so special about the land of Independence?  It will be the place where the Temple of New Jerusalem will be built.  It is one of the two places on earth which will be the Seat of Power from which Christ will reign personally upon the earth.  But His Kingdom is over the whole earth.  Is one part of the Kingdom greater than another when it is the Lord's?  Is there a benefit for people to live in Missouri vs living in Germany or Brazil?  I'm not seeing it.  

Consider Eowyn's words and Mirkwoods' link.  

Too many are caught up in the idea that Independence will be the gathering place in the end times.  This is not so.  The gathering place of the Utah Saints will be in Utah, the Texan Saints will be in Texas, the Mexican Saints will be in Mexico and so on.  Zion is where the stakes of the Church exist.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Guest

[mirkwood]

Quote

Are we going back to Jackson County? Yes. When? As soon as the way opens up. Are we all going? O no! Of course not. The country is not large enough to hold our present numbers. When we do return there, will there be any less remaining in these mountains than we number today? No, there may be a hundred then for every single one that there is now. It is folly in men to suppose that we are going to break up these our hard earned home to make others in a new country.

Brigham Young. JOD, Vol. 18

This.

Edited March 27, 2016 by mirkwood

[Sadliers]

Zion should exist right now but does not. The scriptures tell us that things will get very ugly before Zion will be redeemed and the New Jerusalem is built. Go with the Spirit for personal direction.

[mordorbund]

My thoughts tend to agree with those expressed here. The focus on land is premature in my opinion. We should be building Zion hearts and a Zion culture. Then the land can be a legal and commercial formality.

[mordorbund]

Threadjack Warning!

My question is once the "center place" is organized, complete with a high council, what will be that high council's role in the general church?

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

My question is once the "center place" is organized, complete with a high council, what will be that high council's role in the general church?

Could you rephrase that question?  Are you talking about the Apostles or a stake high council?

Either way, their function will still be what they have always been.

[mordorbund]

D&C 107:36-37

Quote

36 The standing ^ahigh councils, at the stakes of Zion, form a quorum equal in authority in the affairs of the church, in all their decisions, to the quorum of the presidency, or to the traveling high council.

 37 The ^ahigh council in Zion form a quorum equal in authority in the affairs of the church, in all their decisions, to the councils of the Twelve at the stakes of Zion.

 

[Guest]

Ok.  Thanks for the clarification.

Like I said: They will continue the functions they are currently performing.

[Traveler]

On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 8:26 AM, LeSellers said:

There will come a time when the Brethren will call some people to go to Zion.

There are Saints who live there now. Do they have an advantage over the rest of us?

What might happen to someone who, on his own, decides to pull up stakes and buy a lot in downtown Independence, or in Far West, or somewhere else near the Center Stake?

Lehi

As I understand and interpret the scriptures and prophesies considering Zion in Jackson County Missouri:

 

1.    When Zion was first built under the direction of Enoch the city state was established as several cities not far from Adam-ondi-Ahman.

 

2.    As the world become more wicked the righteous saints found refuge in Zion that was protected through the faith of the Saints and through the power of the priesthood. 

 

3.    Prior to the epoch of Noah and the Ark the Saints of Zion and their city (Zion or the City of Enoch) was translated and taken up.

 

4.    Following the epoch of Noah and the Ark the oldest son of Noah (Shem) reestablished Zion and called the city Salem meaning peace.  Shem took upon himself the title of Melchizedek which means “King of Righteousness” as the king of Salem.  As a side note I speculate that the book of Zadok mentioned in the Book of Mormon was the record made by Melchizedek.

 

5.    In the days of Abraham Salem and the citizens were translated in the same manner as Zion (the city of Enoch).

 

6.    Prior to the return of Christ the righteous Saints of the last days will also be translated and taken up to greet Christ as he returns with a great number of Saints of Zion (Enoch) and Salem.

 

7.    It will be the return of the ancient Saints of Enoch and Salem that will reestablish their former cities on the very sights where they previously existed – one in Jackson County Missouri and the other very near where Jerusalem stands today.

 

8.    These two cities will govern the whole earth during the millennium.

 

I speculate that few if any LDS will move to either capitol city – before or after the return of Jesus with his ten thousands saints as prophesied by Enoch and quoted by Jude.  It is also my understanding that prior to the return of the two “cities” that those two areas will be under such stress that life will not be preserved and that there will not even be a dog left alive. 

 

 

The Traveler

 

Edited March 28, 2016 by Traveler

[Blackmarch]

On 3/27/2016 at 8:26 AM, LeSellers said:

There will come a time when the Brethren will call some people to go to Zion.

There are Saints who live there now. Do they have an advantage over the rest of us?

What might happen to someone who, on his own, decides to pull up stakes and buy a lot in downtown Independence, or in Far West, or somewhere else near the Center Stake?

Lehi

probably the same pros and cons as anywhere else where someone is an oldtimer vs someone who is new to the neighborhood.

[Jojo Bags]

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 1:26 AM, LeSellers said:

There will come a time when the Brethren will call some people to go to Zion.

There are Saints who live there now. Do they have an advantage over the rest of us?

What might happen to someone who, on his own, decides to pull up stakes and buy a lot in downtown Independence, or in Far West, or somewhere else near the Center Stake?

Lehi

Be careful, Lehi.  You'll be branded a radical for posting stuff like this.  That said, I would not go near Jackson County just yet.  Are you familiar with a vision recorded in Wilford Woodruff's diary about the fate of the U.S.?  The vision is attributed to John Taylor.  In a nut shell, it talks about what happens to the U.S. when (I'm assuming here) the second civil war starts.  Essentially, Jackson County will be wiped clean of inhabitants.  You can read about it here: http://www.latterdayconservative.com/john-taylor/john-taylors-last-days-vision/

[Jojo Bags]

On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 8:31 AM, Traveler said:

As I understand and interpret the scriptures and prophesies considering Zion in Jackson County Missouri:

 

1.    When Zion was first built under the direction of Enoch the city state was established as several cities not far from Adam-ondi-Ahman.

 

Joseph Smith said that the city of Enoch was located in what we call the Gulf of Mexico.

[Traveler]

9 hours ago, Jojo Bags said:

Joseph Smith said that the city of Enoch was located in what we call the Gulf of Mexico.

Is this given as scripture revelation?  (ie D&C?) what is your reference?

 

The Traveler

[mirkwood]

Wilford Woodruff's Journal,
30 March 1873.

            (Altar of Adam at Adam-ondi-Ahman)

Again President Young said Joseph the Prophet told me that the garden of Eden was in Jackson Co., Missouri, & when Adam was driven out of the garden of Eden He went about 40 miles to the Place which we Named Adam Ondi Ahman, & there built an Altar of Stone & offered Sacrifice. That Altar remains to this day. I saw it as Adam left it as did many others, & through all the revolutions of the world that Altar has not been disturbed. Joseph also said that when the City of Enoch fled & was translated it was whare the gulf of Mexico now is. It left that gulf a body of water.

[Just_A_Guy]

16 hours ago, Jojo Bags said:

Be careful, Lehi.  You'll be branded a radical for posting stuff like this.  That said, I would not go near Jackson County just yet.  Are you familiar with a vision recorded in Wilford Woodruff's diary about the fate of the U.S.?  The vision is attributed to John Taylor.  In a nut shell, it talks about what happens to the U.S. when (I'm assuming here) the second civil war starts.  Essentially, Jackson County will be wiped clean of inhabitants.  You can read about it here: http://www.latterdayconservative.com/john-taylor/john-taylors-last-days-vision/

I don't know what I think of this particular site, but my thoughts are as follows: 

• Independence has over a hundred thousand residents, most of them non-Mormon.
• Jackson County has over six hundred thousand residents, most of them non-Mormon.
• The Kansas City metro area (encompassing Independence) has nearly 2.5 million residents, most of them non-Mormon.

If the plan is for the LDS Church to buy up all/much of that land, then the current residents would have to be willing to sell en masse.  Which would mean that Something Very Bad would have to have happened.  I suspect that if that Something Very Bad happens during my lifetime, I'll be quite content to be living at least a thousand miles away from whatever it is.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[Jojo Bags]

13 hours ago, Traveler said:

Is this given as scripture revelation?  (ie D&C?) what is your reference?

mirkwood posted the first reference.  Here is the second reference:

Quote

Joseph Smith said on another occasion, in the hearing of some of the saints still surveying, that the City of Enoch would again take its place in the identical spot from which it had been detached, now forming that chasm of the earth, filled with water, called the Gulf of Mexico.”

Joseph Young, Enoch & His City (pamphlet), p. 12 (footnote).

 

[mrmarklin]

On March 27, 2016 at 7:26 AM, LeSellers said:

There will come a time when the Brethren will call some people to go to Zion.

There are Saints who live there now. Do they have an advantage over the rest of us?

What might happen to someone who, on his own, decides to pull up stakes and buy a lot in downtown Independence, or in Far West, or somewhere else near the Center Stake?

Lehi

Mormon myth.  We already live in Zion, IMNSHO.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

If the plan is for the LDS Church to buy up all/much of that land, then the current residents would have to be willing to sell en masse.  Which would mean that Something Very Bad would have to have happened.  I suspect that if that Something Very Bad happens during my lifetime, I'll be quite content to be living at least a thousand miles away from whatever it is.

The "very bad" may or may not happen.  But an interesting thing (I'm quoting from an old memory) is that when the saints left Missouri, they were told to keep the deeds to their properties.  Then they were asked to donate their deeds to the Church because at some future date the Church will take the lands back for the building up of the City of Zion.  To do that, they need a legal claim to the land.

[Sadliers]

52 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

The "very bad" may or may not happen.

May it happen rather than the "may not" since the "may not" will be worse according to Jesus:

 

"20 For it shall come to pass, saith the Father, that at that day whosoever will not repent and come unto my Beloved Son, them will I cut off from among my people, O house of Israel; 

21 And I will execute vengeance and fury upon them, even as upon the heathen, such as they have not heard." (3 Nephi 21:20-21)

 

We have heard of some really bad things (Nazi Germany, mass starvations, hyperinflation). The vengeance He will take upon the wicked of this land will be worse than what we have heard. A reading of the chapter places that event right before the building of the New Jerusalem. 

 

One may think that they are in the clear because they are not of the heathen. Those that think that are not familiar with Bible prophecies including those which Nephi painstakingly transcribed for us. There are specific prophecies against members of the church because of wickedness. Isaiah 5 and 6 detail some of the sins of the covenant people (which means us - we are the ones making the covenants in these latter days). One that really hits the heart is Isaiah 28 in which it is foretold how the members will seek the deeper doctrines of the gospel but without the Spirit. And because the members will stray away from learning by the Spirit God will set a 'trap' so that all those that fail to follow the Spirit will be ensnared and fall. That falling will consist of being placed in bondage and smitten by an invading army.