"For the Strength of Youth" - commandment or guideline?

[davidthemormon]

I am a young men's president, and I got this question from one of my young men: Are the things in "For the Strength of Youth" commandments?

I think the answer is no; in other words, you can still get a temple recommend if you date before you're 16 (at least I think you can).  But I hesitate to tell him "no", because these standards come from men who are prophets and I believe they are inspired counsel.  So should my answer be "Technically, they are not commandments, but if a prophet of God told you to do something, wouldn't you want to do it?"

What do you think?

[Guest]

Oh those youth. Always wanting to know exactly where the line is and how far they can get before they go over it. 

Something I wish we could get them to understand is that whether it is a guideline or a commandment, it's given to us through the Lord's servants, and therefore it is the Lord's voice. They are words given out of love and concern, to give us the very best chance for happiness and success. Sure, he could date before he's 16 and manage to not violate the Law of Chastity and technically qualify for a temple recommend when the time comes; but at what cost? For me, it was getting my heart in too deep before it was ready, and thus suffering unnecessary heartbreak; missing out on people and experiences that would have been better for me in the long run; carrying baggage from those times even into my 30's; and most of all, missing out on unknown growth and blessings that I no doubt could have had, had I been perfectly obedient. I was "good" and chaste and didn't break any serious commandments per se, but I do know I missed out on a lot from not following the Lord's counsel. 

But of course, try to get that through the skull of a teenager who's made up his mind that he's in love (or whatever makes him think he needs to date now) and that those things would never happen/don't apply to him.

[Just_A_Guy]

'Tain't just the youth, unfortunately.

If he's looking for ways to "get away with" not doing some of the things that the Lord clearly wants him to do--that's a Terrestrial mindset; and he may as well go be a Baptist or an Episcopalian or a Catholic, because they can get him to the Terrestrial Kingdom just as well as we can.  

But in Mormonism we seek the Celestial Kingdom; and that involves receiving the Lord and His servants and then living by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God--without angsty debates about whether a divine injunction is really a "commandment" or just sound advice.  Assuming that a statement is indeed of divine origin, the celestial will not care whether the statement's language tends more towards the injunctive or the precatory.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[Iggy]

2 hours ago, Eowyn said:

Oh those youth. Always wanting to know exactly where the line is and how far they can get before they go over it. 

Something I wish we could get them to understand is that whether it is a guideline or a commandment, it's given to us through the Lord's servants, and therefore it is the Lord's voice. They are words given out of love and concern, to give us the very best chance for happiness and success. Sure, he could date before he's 16 and manage to not violate the Law of Chastity and technically qualify for a temple recommend when the time comes; but at what cost? For me, it was getting my heart in too deep before it was ready, and thus suffering unnecessary heartbreak; missing out on people and experiences that would have been better for me in the long run; carrying baggage from those times even into my 30's; and most of all, missing out on unknown growth and blessings that I no doubt could have had, had I been perfectly obedient. I was "good" and chaste and didn't break any serious commandments per se, but I do know I missed out on a lot from not following the Lord's counsel. 

But of course, try to get that through the skull of a teenager who's made up his mind that he's in love (or whatever makes him think he needs to date now) and that those things would never happen/don't apply to him.

Ah, Eowyn, you have said it beautifully - Thank you.

[zil]

2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

precatory

If you weren't a lawyer, I'd give you 10 extra points for use of that word in a sentence.

[Anddenex]

Yes, there are commandments within the strength of youth guidelines. Not all commandments, when disobeyed, keep an individual from attending the temple. For example, we have been commanded to read and pray every day. Are we kept from the temple if we disobey these commandments? No. 

Personally, dating before 16 I would definitely look as a commandment. There aren't many items which our leaders specify an age that we should or should not do until.

[Jane_Doe]

There is no commandment saying "don't stick a fork into the electrical socket".  However there are guidelines to that effect- probably a good thing to pay attention to.

[The Folk Prophet]

Why on earth would they not be considered commandments? Thou shalts and thou shalt nots from the Lord through the voice of His servants. Sounds about right to me. And since when does a temple recommend define what is and isn't a commandments? The temple is a higher, stricter level of covenants and obedience. There's a whole heap load of things that the Lord has said we shouldn't/should do that aren't in the temple recommend interview.

[Sadliers]

When one's perspective is that the Spirit only makes suggestions then they are going astray. If one is following Jesus Christ with real intent then any suggestion from the Spirit is interpreted as an immutable commandment. "For the Strength of Youth" was given under the inspiration of the Spirit.

 

"And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation." (D&C 68:4)

 

The test is on and it is not whether or not the pamphlet was inspired. The test is whether the youth will willingly and anxiously obey, begrudgingly obey, or disobey. Rationalizing does no good because it will still offend the Spirit. They have their agency and this is one of those tests on how they will use that agency.

[An Investigator]

There are definitely commandments in the strength of youth book and stuff which if you didn't follow would mean you can't have a temple recommend.

I know this as I was given one a couple of months ago by my Gospel Principles teacher at my house.

I guess it's easier then discussing the law of chastity before baptism with a 32 year old married mother of two hahaha.

[omegaseamaster75]

14 hours ago, davidthemormon said:

I am a young men's president, and I got this question from one of my young men: Are the things in "For the Strength of Youth" commandments?

I think the answer is no; in other words, you can still get a temple recommend if you date before you're 16 (at least I think you can).  But I hesitate to tell him "no", because these standards come from men who are prophets and I believe they are inspired counsel.  So should my answer be "Technically, they are not commandments, but if a prophet of God told you to do something, wouldn't you want to do it?"

What do you think?

We can never be led astray by heeding the words of our leaders. There are commandments in the book, some items are a matter of church policy. Inspired policy but not commandments. Dating before the age of 16 = policy (you can get a temple recommend), obeying the law of chastity = commandment.

I see a clear distinction between the two.

Edited April 5, 2016 by omegaseamaster75

[LeSellers]

On 4/5/2016 at 6:02 PM, davidthemormon said:

I am a young men's president, and I got this question from one of my young men: Are the things in "For the Strength of Youth" commandments?

What do you think?

As others have hinted, the key to this is his answer to the question, "Why do you ask?"

As the father of seven, I can count on all our hands the times I've answered the wrong question. It's a waste of my time, and of the child's. And it does not resolve the problem.

We can guess and speculate as to why he's asking. It could be "nefarious" or it could just be that he's asking for clarification.

I'd suggest not opening doors that need not be opened.

Lehi

Edited April 6, 2016 by LeSellers

[Sunday21]

That is a great little book and not just for youth! I used to take it on dates with me and explain that these were the rules we were going to follow. One chap threw the book to the other side of the room and told me earnestly that we did not have to obey those rules because we were 'older'. That little book really sorted the sheep from the goats!

[Guest]

So, is Coke forbidden by the WoW?

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

So, is Coke forbidden by the WoW?

I hope not. I'm using it today to make Café Rio sweet pork.

[Guest]

So is pork forbidden by the WoW?

[Blackmarch]

On 4/5/2016 at 6:02 PM, davidthemormon said:

I am a young men's president, and I got this question from one of my young men: Are the things in "For the Strength of Youth" commandments?

I think the answer is no; in other words, you can still get a temple recommend if you date before you're 16 (at least I think you can).  But I hesitate to tell him "no", because these standards come from men who are prophets and I believe they are inspired counsel.  So should my answer be "Technically, they are not commandments, but if a prophet of God told you to do something, wouldn't you want to do it?"

What do you think?

I agree; they are not written in stone and brought to us from mount sinai.... but these are from prophets. Whose job is to be as the watchman upon the tower to warn us of the enemy. When you go against these you are putting yourself in harms way and in a position where the spirit will leave you.

[mordorbund]

 

1 hour ago, Eowyn said:

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

So, is Coke forbidden by the WoW?

I hope not. I'm using it today to make Café Rio sweet pork.

You can use it for cooking. All the caffeine cooks out of it.

[EarlJibbs]

7 hours ago, Eowyn said:

I hope not. I'm using it today to make Café Rio sweet pork.

I am visiting Utah in June and I will get my fix! 

Never mention Cafe Rio please. It's rude to all those who now reside in a state where Cafe Rio is not. 

 

[NeedleinA]

5 hours ago, EarlJibbs said:

in a state where Cafe Rio is not. 

Have not been in years with my wife, not in our state. 

Just visited Southern California. Went to the movies and got out looking for a place to eat. Driving down random unknown streets, we found a Cafe Rio. We got all excited, turned around into the complex and realized it was only "Under Construction". Bummer...

[Vort]

11 hours ago, mordorbund said:

You can use it for cooking. All the caffeine cooks out of it.

This is why we appreciate having mordorbund as our resident chemist.