Husbands Being the Main Source of Stress


Recommended Posts

It is a common reaction when somebody is caught in the act doing something the know is wrong to go into denial, try to shift blame, attach their accusers, try to justify or minimize their actions etc.  It isn't a humble reaction but it is common.  It's more that he's angry at himself for doing it than angry at you for catching him.  Everybody wants to see themselves as the hero of their life story, not the villain of somebody else story.  Hopefully in time he'll listen to his conscience rather than suppress it.

The question is, is it a habit or an addiction?  What you describe didn't sound like hard core stuff which is a reason for hope, but his 'taking care of his needs' to it is not a good sign as the the combination of that with porn can re-wire a guys sexual response.  If he can stay away from it that should pass but it may be very hard for him if it is an addiction.  The church has an addiction recovery program that may help and there is a great series of 12 videos on youtube the church has put out on addiction recover you might both want to watch.  An addiction is like an illness that drives people to do things they know are harmful and they hate themselves for it after.  I know something like this can feel like a very personal attack on you, but it's about his struggle with himself.  Sometimes a little compassion (not acceptance) for his weakness can help him find strength to change.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, estradling75 said:

Lets put it another way...  A stereo typical husband works 8+ hours a day... The stereo typical mom is working at home for that 8+ hours a day during that time...  By the time that the husband get home they have both worked a full day...  But there is more to be done...  The question then becomes who handles the remainder?  If you say the wife then you basically belittle the work she has already done and the value she has added.  If you say the husband you belittle the work he has already done and the value he has added.

The simple fact of the matter is both probably need a bit of a break and the remaining work still needs to get done.  It needs to be divided in a way that doesn't belittle the contribution either member makes and it need to be flexible enough to change with circumstances change.  

I think that kind of oversimplifies things.  There are some significant differences in the work environments and situations.  Some jobs are intensely physical, or potentially emotionally traumatic or even life risking.  A housewife doesn't have to worry about being fired like her husband does, doesn't have to face the same kind of job pressures or conflicts with co-workers.  A housewife has far more control and flexibility over her schedule.  And different people have different capacities.  Trying to measure the worth of one spouse's work against another is not practical or helpful.  Both should do what they can and not be judgemental about what the other does or doesn't do. 

Economically, there is some wisdom in the breadwinner getting special treatment.  In a primitive tribe setting the hunters eat first, because the well being of the whole tribe depends on their having the strength to go hunting again.  A stay at home wife can enable her husband to advance faster in his career which is a benefit for her as well.  That isn't an excuse for a guy to come home and do nothing, but it should affect priorities a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

Economically, there is some wisdom in the breadwinner getting special treatment.  In a primitive tribe setting the hunters eat first, because the well being of the whole tribe depends on their having the strength to go hunting again.  A stay at home wife can enable her husband to advance faster in his career which is a benefit for her as well.  That isn't an excuse for a guy to come home and do nothing, but it should affect priorities a bit.

When I learned that, among ancient peoples, the men almost always ate first (and, of course, most), and that only after they were done did the women and children eat, it made me think of all the feminist stuff we constantly hear, about how women were second-class and so forth. Same with pioneers crossing the plains. Then someone pointed out to me that if the men died, all the women and children would die, too. The men had to stay alive if they were to protect and provide for their women and children. Today, we live with this romantic chivalry about how a man should be willing to give his life for his wife and children. But that was just as true in ancient times. The difference was that the men knew full well that, were they to die, their family would likely follow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

I think that kind of oversimplifies things. 

While I used a stereotype which is of course simplistic... I fail to see how treating your spouse (and there contributions) with respect is oversimplifying.  Yes one spouse may have a more demanding job(either long term or short).  If there is mutual respect then the other spouse steps up.  If they both have demanding work then they both need to step up.  

Fairness doesn't even become an issue until one or both spouses stop looking outward at what is best for the family and start looking inward at what is best for them...  And is really a basic gospel idea. And there is nothing simplistic about that.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, AGMom said:

Thank you for your responses. A lot of great advice on here.

Last night, I discovered a big part of the problem. I caught my husband looking at inappropriate photos of women on the internet. There's a website he frequently likes to visit that are usually funny images, but they have a "not safe for work" section, with women posing provocatively- showing cleavage, butt, etc. He was taking care of his needs while scrolling through the images.
 

So you actually caught him "taking are of his needs" or do you suspect that this is what he does? He was defensive because he knows that it was wrong and got caught. That is a natural guy reaction. 

 

18 hours ago, AGMom said:

I think the biggest issue I have, is my husband is never really willing to apologize when he screws up. It's always somebody else's fault. Apparently him dealing with his needs by going to other sources is my fault, not his. When I mentioned he's defensive about pretty much everything, this is a perfect example. I did my best to try and look past it- to try and really listen to what he was saying. He says we're not emotionally close anymore. He doesn't feel loved by me anymore. Because of this, he has zero desire to even touch me. He said it could take weeks for him to feel attracted to me again. All I could manage to interpret from that was how unimportant my needs are. How he was blaming me and justifying his actions. He wasn't sorry. He doesn't care about my own needs.  It all sounded too selfish, so I decided to just go to bed. From his view, I'm the one who needs to make all the changes. I'm the reason we fight. I'm the reason he doesn't want me. I have to do all the repair work, because, well, he's the innocent party. 
 

You can't change him, you can only change you. Take a long look in the mirror. Unless you married a real monster your physical appearance has nothing to do with why he does not feel an emotional connection with you. You need to fix yourself and he needs to fix himself.

 

I'll take it a step further, and this was mentioned by another poster. You already had one baby with this guy. If you had problems why did you think that it was a good idea to have the second?

Edited by omegaseamaster75
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

You can't change him, you can only change you.

This is the most profound truth in all of human relationships.

There are two books that need to be part of everyone's library:

Bonds that Make Us Free
The Anatomy of Peace

Both from the Arbinger Institute. (I'd read them in the reverse order if I had it to do again.)

When one changes himself, others may or may not change in reciprocation. But, in any case he will be a better person. And that's all any of us can hope for.

Lehi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Eowyn said:

Where does child rearing, errand running, yard work, etc fit into that percentage?

I think when we start keeping score, we've already lost the battle. I know that the workload between my husband and I has never been fair.  I often have much more on my shoulders than he does, and he frequently has much more on his than I do. The point is that we're each looking at what we need to do to make sure the kids have what they need, and that the other is feeling cared for. Percentages and score keeping are inward-looking. Marriage is healthiest and most rewarding when the spouses' focus is outward. 

Absolutely that the husband should be involved in child rearing! But the complaint was that the wife feels like she's having to rear a husband, too, not whether or not the husband is involved in the rearing. There's probably some legitimacy in the claim, given how many fail to step up to the plate, but other times it seems to be more of a complaint that it is not being done in a manner demanded by the wife. Each person has their different ways to do things and the wife's way isn't the only way. How often does it boil down to the immaturity of the wife in demanding that everything be done her way rather than respecting the non-life threatening differences?

One of the cancers that is plaguing society is self-centeredness. Too many expect, and demand, that everything goes their way and in their favor. Spouses experience it, too, and it happens on both ends. There's the husbands that come home and get engrossed in something for the rest of the evening, whether it be a newspaper, video game, sports, or go out with his drinking buddies. Then there's the wife that seeks everything for herself and rationalize it is for the "children", excessively buys for herself without regard to the spouse, spends plenty of pleasure time watching tv and talking to friends but then denies the husband similar time when he gets home from work, etc.

 

Each should first look at whether they are falling into a trap before automatically assuming it is the spouses fault. A case in point: there is a thing called "personal borders". It is an eternal law for personal borders to be respected but that often does not happen in mortality. A personal border is the border in which a person feels secure. If one hits another then it violates the personal border because it violates the personal security. Even angrily yelling at another violates personal borders. God is the ultimate respector of personal borders. How often is the complaint because the wife is unable to violate the personal border of the husband? Of course it goes both ways, but the issue is the complaining by the wife this the reply is focused on that. How often is the complaint because the husband is failing to be subservient to the wife? Just because the survey gives a result it does not mean that the complaint is legitimate.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Sadliers said:

But the complaint was that the wife feels like she's having to rear a husband, too, not whether or not the husband is involved in the rearing. There's probably some legitimacy in the claim, given how many fail to step up to the plate, but other times it seems to be more of a complaint that it is not being done in a manner demanded by the wife. Each person has their different ways to do things and the wife's way isn't the only way. How often does it boil down to the immaturity of the wife in demanding that everything be done her way rather than respecting the non-life threatening differences?

 

Yes.  This may have a lot to do with the situation.

The wife raising the husband as another kid is a wife choice.  She doesn't have to, of course.  This only comes up when the wife doesn't have the patience or the trust to leave the husband with his chores in the best way he knows how to accomplish them and leave it at that.  If it doesn't get done, it doesn't get done.  The husband and wife know it's his to do.

The approach to porn, is another example.  You can approach it as his mother or you can approach it as his helpmeet.  A mother would point and accuse and discipline.  A helpmeet will ask the husband what he needs from the wife to be able to stop doing bad stuff.  Make sense?

It only sounds unfair if your objective is "mortal equality".  "It's not fair that I'm doing all the good stuff while he slides off doing all the bad stuff!" "It's not fair that he's being loved while I'm not".  But if the objective is made to encompass the totality of a MARITAL COVENANT, then, there's nothing unfair about it - there are times when the husband is failing and the wife has to hold him up until he straightens out... then there are times when the wife is failing and the husband has to hold her up until she straightens out... this goes on and on and on waaaaay past death to final judgment.  When I feel particularly unloved, that's when I think of what Christ had to do to atone for our sins... he bled from every pore and hung on the cross to his death and still he says, Forgive them for they know not what they do.  And so that's what I say too (even when I'm not feeling loving at the time)... Father, forgive us.  If I say it enough, it eventually balances me out.  But yeah, this only works because I know for a surety that my husband loves God and wants that Marital Covenant as badly as I do.

 

Edited by anatess2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, anatess2 said:

 

Yes.  This may have a lot to do with the situation.

The wife raising the husband as another kid is a wife choice.  She doesn't have to, of course.  This only comes up when the wife doesn't have the patience or the trust to leave the husband with his chores in the best way he knows how to accomplish them and leave it at that.  If it doesn't get done, it doesn't get done.  The husband and wife know it's his to do.

The approach to porn, is another example. 

[...]But yeah, this only works because I know for a surety that my husband loves God and wants that Marital Covenant as badly as I do.

 

Many accolades to you for persisting in the ups as well as the downs!!! Too many of the self-centered will weigh it out and choose to break the covenant during the hard times when God's criteria for doing so has not been met. Atta girl!!!

Porn is a different matter. Porn is infidelity, spiritually speaking. I feel sorry for the wives that have husbands with that issue. And I feel sorry for those husbands for failing to realize just how damaging it truly is. Part of our mortality is to train this 'natural man' body to be a holy temple that loves the presence of God. Indulging in porn invites evil spirits to make a home with that man and also teaches the body to have desires for women other than the one whom the sacred covenant was made with. Both of those are more spiritually damaging than those men realize. They are not taking their stewardship over the body seriously and have become a slave to the body.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Sadliers said:

Many accolades to you for persisting in the ups as well as the downs!!! Too many of the self-centered will weigh it out and choose to break the covenant during the hard times when God's criteria for doing so has not been met. Atta girl!!!

Porn is a different matter. Porn is infidelity, spiritually speaking. I feel sorry for the wives that have husbands with that issue. And I feel sorry for those husbands for failing to realize just how damaging it truly is. Part of our mortality is to train this 'natural man' body to be a holy temple that loves the presence of God. Indulging in porn invites evil spirits to make a home with that man and also teaches the body to have desires for women other than the one whom the sacred covenant was made with. Both of those are more spiritually damaging than those men realize. They are not taking their stewardship over the body seriously and have become a slave to the body.

Women are just as susceptible to porn as men... they just read it instead of look at pictures.  I just came from the public library where the latest of these smut novels are front and center on the fiction aisle.  Public Library.

This is damaging to a marriage as well yet it seems like women always gets a pass about it.  It doesn't even have to be smut - it can be just your regular romance novel like... The Notebook.  I remember this day because I took my husband and my kid who just turned 1 year old to my work to trick-or-treat around the cubicles (work event).  We met a good friend of ours at the cafeteria and he was newly divorced and we wondered what happened when he was only married for less than 2 years.  He said - his wife gave him 2 books to read - The Notebook and Bridges of Madison County - and asked Why can't you be like these guys?  He refused to read the books so she promptly left him.  Yes, of course, there was more to the problem than the 2 books... I'm just saying that a lot of times women have this romantic view of men and when their husbands fall short from their dream Disney prince then they get all hurt-like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Women are just as susceptible to porn as men... they just read it instead of look at pictures.  I just came from the public library where the latest of these smut novels are front and center on the fiction aisle.  Public Library.

This is damaging to a marriage as well yet it seems like women always gets a pass about it.  It doesn't even have to be smut - it can be just your regular romance novel like... The Notebook.  I remember this day because I took my husband and my kid who just turned 1 year old to my work to trick-or-treat around the cubicles (work event).  We met a good friend of ours at the cafeteria and he was newly divorced and we wondered what happened when he was only married for less than 2 years.  He said - his wife gave him 2 books to read - The Notebook and Bridges of Madison County - and asked Why can't you be like these guys?  He refused to read the books so she promptly left him.  Yes, of course, there was more to the problem than the 2 books... I'm just saying that a lot of times women have this romantic view of men and when their husbands fall short from their dream Disney prince then they get all hurt-like.

If I could some how squeeze this whole quote onto a t-shirt and sell it to guys, I would be rich!!!

Women sometimes wonder why guys can't stand "chick flicks", they assume it is only because of long dialogue, slow pacing, no action scenes. Honestly, I can't stand them for the above reasons that Anatess gives... being compared to "shirtless, ripped abs, perfect hair, model guys who have no other responsibilities except to be overly romantic to his woman and provide the best sex ever." This goes both ways for guys too, but I'm not sure a lot of woman realize this is huge turn off to guys with chick movies. We can leave feeling 2" tall especially if we get the glances all during the movie and the "see how he does things" comments. 

On a different note: Porn targets women every time you check out at the grocery store or Wal-mart. The magazines next to the gum are full of garbage. Now they even have to hide portions of the covers with black barriers so kids won't read the section titles too. I call these magazines the gateway drug.

Gracias Anatess!

Edited by NeedleinA
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

This goes both ways for guys too, but I'm not sure a lot of woman realize this is huge turn off to guys with chick movies.

And you know those action movies you all like so much? How about the women in those (stupid and scantily clad; or with over-the-top martial arts skills and scantily clad; or utterly irrelevant and scantily clad; or....)?  Did you think women leave those feeling any better about themselves than you guys do after a chick flick?  I guess I felt like "this goes both was" wasn't enough words. Call me a woman. :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, zil said:

And you know those action movies you all like so much? How about the women in those (stupid and scantily clad; or with over-the-top martial arts skills and scantily clad; or utterly irrelevant and scantily clad; or....)?  Did you think women leave those feeling any better about themselves than you guys do after a chick flick?  I guess I felt like "this goes both was" wasn't enough words. Call me a woman. :P

The issue, I believe, is that men get accused of porn addiction, but women get a pass, because their porn is different. Ours is generally pictures, yours generally words. But they are both porn, if we describe it as anything that sexually stimulates the viewer/reader by portraying the complementary sex in ways that no real man or woman can be expected to equal.

Lehi

Edited by LeSellers
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

The issue, I believe, is that men get accused of pron addiction, but women get a pass, because their porn is different. Ours is generally pictures, yours generally words. But they are both porn, if we describe it as anything that sexually stimulates the viewer/reader by portraying the complementary sex in ways that no real man or woman can be expected to equal.

Lehi

Yes, agree that's totally wrong to have a double standard.  Was just responding to Needle's 2" tall bit.  Let's face it, Satan has done a very good job of finding ways to divide people - even via things that don't seem divisive on the face (like movies).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, zil said:

or with over-the-top martial arts skills and scantily clad;

I take comfort in knowing that at least I'm not so stupid as to go to battle in a crop top. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, anatess2 said:

 I'm just saying that a lot of times women have this romantic view of men and when their husbands fall short from their dream Disney prince then they get all hurt-like.

There's a meme circulating Facebook I found humorous: A shot of all these various Disney princes speaking oh-so-romantic lines... then Shang from "Mulan" saying "You fight good."

While we laugh, I think we women in general to recognize most men are probably going to be the "You fight good" type.

My li'l sister has been having man troubles. Part of it, and I've told her this after many a thing she says, is she is truly expecting this wild, romantic journey of love and gets upset when her boyfriends and dates don't live up to this fantasy.

And that's when the "women's porn" can sneak in...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, zil said:

And you know those action movies you all like so much? How about the women in those (stupid and scantily clad; or with over-the-top martial arts skills and scantily clad; or utterly irrelevant and scantily clad; or....)?  Did you think women leave those feeling any better about themselves than you guys do after a chick flick?  I guess I felt like "this goes both was" wasn't enough words. Call me a woman. :P

My wife is the action movie person. I get bored by them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, zil said:

And you know those action movies you all like so much? How about the women in those (stupid and scantily clad; or with over-the-top martial arts skills and scantily clad; or utterly irrelevant and scantily clad; or....)?  Did you think women leave those feeling any better about themselves than you guys do after a chick flick?  I guess I felt like "this goes both was" wasn't enough words. Call me a woman. :P

Yep Zil - fully aware of this side of it too, sorry that I didn't provide "enough words". :D I never intentionally try to see "guy" movies like this and have even walked out/turned it off if it turned into this before. As much as I don't care to be compared to some fake Hollywood standard, I know my wife doesn't want to be either.

So off to movies like Star Wars & Lord of the Rings instead, this way we can only compare each other to Force wielding hobbits at best!

Edited by NeedleinA
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On April 11, 2016 at 6:01 PM, estradling75 said:

Lets put it another way...  A stereo typical husband works 8+ hours a day... The stereo typical mom is working at home for that 8+ hours a day during that time...  By the time that the husband get home they have both worked a full day... 

Sometimes. Other times not so. While I was working the 8 hr job the wife had time to watch soap operas, visit parents, and do whatever was on the mind. She would be asleep before I left so I fended for myself for breakfast. During the day I was on my own for lunch, too. There was about a 90 minute period between jobs and when I'd get home there was seldom a meal so I usually fended for dinner. I'd get home around 11:00-11:30 and she'd be asleep. Come the weekend she then expected me to do work around the house. It was challenged that she work in the home hour-for-hour as I was working out of the home but it never happened - that was "too much". From that experience my personal experience and first reaction is to question whether the one that is in the home is actually working during the 8 hours or whether watching tv, visiting others, and playing around is categorized as work. I know that all are not that way! But how many are?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Eowyn said:

I take comfort in knowing that at least I'm not so stupid as to go to battle in a crop top. 

I would double-like that, if I could.

3 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Yep Zil - fully aware of this side of it too, sorry that I didn't provide "enough words". :D I never intentionally try to see "guy" movies like this and have even walked out/turned it off if it turned into this before. As much as I don't care to be compared to some fake Hollywood standard, I know my wife doesn't want to be either.

So off to movies like Star Wars & Lord of the Rings instead, this way we can only compare each other to Force wielding hobbits at best!

Last night, as I was falling asleep, I was wondering if guys don't come out of action movies feeling 2" tall, too - cuz no one is the hero from modern action movies - not even the actor or stunt men or CGI experts (especially not the CGI experts).

It also hit me: What sort of person compares anyone to a character from fiction!?  It's fiction!  If you can't use it for the intended purpose (temporary pleasure), or if it makes you unhappy with your own life, then you should stay away from it - because thinking reality can be like fiction is deluded.  And this is coming from a person who self-describes as "fictionally dysfunctional" - meaning, if I could, I'd do little more than read fiction - but I've never compared real-life people to fictional people - that would ruin the fiction. :crackup:

Rhetorical, off-topic question of the day: Why are some non-words "dis..." and others "dys..."?  Perhaps the cosmos is mocking the spellingly challenged...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, zil said:

Rhetorical, off-topic question of the day: Why are some non-words "dis..." and others "dys..."?  Perhaps the cosmos is mocking the spellingly challenged...

Even rhetorical questions get answers around here...

Dis = opposite or appart

Dys = bad or abnormal

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sadliers said:

Sometimes. Other times not so. While I was working the 8 hr job the wife had time to watch soap operas, visit parents, and do whatever was on the mind. She would be asleep before I left so I fended for myself for breakfast. During the day I was on my own for lunch, too. There was about a 90 minute period between jobs and when I'd get home there was seldom a meal so I usually fended for dinner. I'd get home around 11:00-11:30 and she'd be asleep. Come the weekend she then expected me to do work around the house. It was challenged that she work in the home hour-for-hour as I was working out of the home but it never happened - that was "too much". From that experience my personal experience and first reaction is to question whether the one that is in the home is actually working during the 8 hours or whether watching tv, visiting others, and playing around is categorized as work. I know that all are not that way! But how many are?

This is of course true... which is why I talked about respecting each other.  If the husband comes home and finds his happy and healthy and otherwise "nurtured" kids then he should be content that his wife did her job just as much as he did his... no matter how messy the house might be... To postulate that his wife sat round watching soaps and eating bons bons or otherwise neglected her responsibility is simply not justified or fair in the case were the children are clearly being taken care of.

On the same hand if she can and does sit around watching soaps and eating bons bons... (because she has no kids or is neglecting them) and then complains that her husband doesn't help out well that is all kinds of wrong and unfair as well

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

This is of course true... which is why I talked about respecting each other.  If the husband comes home and finds his happy and healthy and otherwise "nurtured" kids then he should be content that his wife did her job just as much as he did his... no matter how messy the house might be... To postulate that his wife sat round watching soaps and eating bons bons or otherwise neglected her responsibility is simply not justified or fair in the case were the children are clearly being taken care of.

On the same hand if she can and does sit around watching soaps and eating bons bons... (because she has no kids or is neglecting them) and then complains that her husband doesn't help out well that is all kinds of wrong and unfair as well

I'm going to qualify this...

If the kid is an infant then this applies 100%.

If the kid is old enough to pick up after himself, then the state of the house is a reflection of the "nurturer's" weakness/failure in house-management and "employees"-management... with her being the boss and the kids being her employees to equate it to the husband's workplace.  After all, taking care of the family's temple is a big part of that nurture that the kids need to be taught.

But then... Messy is a relative word.

Edited by anatess2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, zil said:

It also hit me: What sort of person compares anyone to a character from fiction!?  It's fiction!  If you can't use it for the intended purpose (temporary pleasure), or if it makes you unhappy with your own life, then you should stay away from it - because thinking reality can be like fiction is deluded.  And this is coming from a person who self-describes as "fictionally dysfunctional" - meaning, if I could, I'd do little more than read fiction - but I've never compared real-life people to fictional people - that would ruin the fiction. :crackup:

 

Generally people don't compare themselves to fictional characters... they are more likely to compare other people they to know to the other fictional characters. 

For example a man simply puts himself in the main male lead role (no matter how big the disconnect) and lives vicariously... 

This vicarious living is kinda of the point of entertainment.

However the nature of vicarious living is that it is probably seen as "better" then their "real" life so they start to want their real life to take on the "better" aspects of the fake one.  This will lead to him comparing his spouse/GF to the fictional women.  This is of course a comparison they can not win which is why it hurts so much.

Same is true in reverse.  Women don't read the romance novels to compare themselves to the female lead.  They read it to be the female lead, vicariously, and they can and do run into the exact same problem as men can

Now people who are generally happy and stable in the "real" world are better able to resist this lure... but everyone has low points and moments of weakness were this can hook them.

Edited by estradling75
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share