Traveler Posted May 10, 2016 Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 On 5/5/2016 at 0:47 PM, anatess2 said: I disagree with this fully. The first paragraph: How we die is not just a matter of a just a few seconds. Nobody willingly dies from one second of decision. Not even suicide. How we live can reflect choices that extend for years by how we live AND how we die. The second paragraph: I left the Catholic Church to get baptized LDS. That wasn't a decision that was "in a heartbeat". Rather, my FAITH IN CHRIST led me to be a devout Catholic as that was where my testimony of Christ led me. I got baptized LDS even as I was already baptized Catholic because of my FAITH IN CHRIST that leads me to my testimony in the power of the Priesthood of the LDS Church instituted by Christ. That is not something that can be put aside in a heartbeat as it is part and parcel - an important part, even - of my Faith in Christ. I assume that since you disagree fully; that you believe people that sleep in garages will turn into Fords or Chevys? Obviously you do not fall into the category of “most” that claim to be converted to Christ but that are really converted (by one reason or another) to a church – because you have changed churches. Also you do not just change often as the wind blows. I would say you are a fine exception to my generalized observation and have good reason to be heard. Never-the-less, it does appear to me that you would go where Christ leads you. It is my observation from reading your posts – that you are a rare find and for the record – I am most glad to have crossed the path you are blazing. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted May 10, 2016 Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Traveler said: I assume that since you disagree fully; that you believe people that sleep in garages will turn into Fords or Chevys? Obviously you do not fall into the category of “most” that claim to be converted to Christ but that are really converted (by one reason or another) to a church – because you have changed churches. Also you do not just change often as the wind blows. I would say you are a fine exception to my generalized observation and have good reason to be heard. Never-the-less, it does appear to me that you would go where Christ leads you. It is my observation from reading your posts – that you are a rare find and for the record – I am most glad to have crossed the path you are blazing. The Traveler People who sleep in garages will not turn into Fords or Chevys but the "fully" pertains to your correlation of people who sleep in garages with those who go to church on Sunday. There is no covenant that obligates one to sleep in garages to become a Ford/Chevy and there's nothing about garages that inherently is part and parcel of becoming a Ford/Chevy. I would go where Christ leads me, yes. But to say that you will drop the LDS Church in a heartbeat denies Christ's words that he speaks through his authorized prophets. A person who has that testimony of the authority of the LDS Church will not be able to just drop the Church in a heartbeat as it is part and parcel of one's Faith in Christ. Edited May 10, 2016 by anatess2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted May 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 On 5/5/2016 at 11:27 AM, Traveler said: As always I intend to bring something else to this table. Most think of giving their lives for something as a willingness to die for it. I very much and strongly, disagree, I think it is how we live that has more to do with what we give our life for than how we die. The Traveler When I asked Jesus to come into my life and take it over, as I repented of my sins, did I not die? When I was baptized, burying 'the old man,' did I not die? There is a sense in which we cannot fully live for Christ until we have first died to ourselves. THEN, if martyrdom beckons it is merely the completion of a long-settled 'covenant.' mordorbund 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted May 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 On 5/5/2016 at 11:47 AM, anatess2 said: I disagree with this fully. The first paragraph: How we die is not just a matter of a just a few seconds. Nobody willingly dies from one second of decision. Not even suicide. How we live can reflect choices that extend for years by how we live AND how we die. The second paragraph: I left the Catholic Church to get baptized LDS. That wasn't a decision that was "in a heartbeat". Rather, my FAITH IN CHRIST led me to be a devout Catholic as that was where my testimony of Christ led me. I got baptized LDS even as I was already baptized Catholic because of my FAITH IN CHRIST that leads me to my testimony in the power of the Priesthood of the LDS Church instituted by Christ. That is not something that can be put aside in a heartbeat as it is part and parcel - an important part, even - of my Faith in Christ. Thank you for sharing this, Anatess2. I recently viewed a youtube testimony of a Muslim who, after many years of questioning, faced the decision of converting to Christianity. He went to Allah in prayer, and said he needed to mourn his loss. Then he scoured the Qur'an--scriptures he'd already memorized. He found not one verse that would comfort a mourner. Then he turned to the New Testament, and within 10 minutes found Matthew 5:4--blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. He made his conversion, but I found it powerful that, rather than bearing hatred towards his former religion, he needed to mourn the losing of it. Again, I ask, though he now lives for Christ, did he not have to die first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted May 10, 2016 Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 1 hour ago, prisonchaplain said: Thank you for sharing this, Anatess2. I recently viewed a youtube testimony of a Muslim who, after many years of questioning, faced the decision of converting to Christianity. He went to Allah in prayer, and said he needed to mourn his loss. Then he scoured the Qur'an--scriptures he'd already memorized. He found not one verse that would comfort a mourner. Then he turned to the New Testament, and within 10 minutes found Matthew 5:4--blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. He made his conversion, but I found it powerful that, rather than bearing hatred towards his former religion, he needed to mourn the losing of it. Again, I ask, though he now lives for Christ, did he not have to die first? That's not how I see it. To "die" first means you shed every single thing you knew from before. This is not how I see conversion. And this is something that the LDS teach that makes very much sense to me in my experience - the Light of Christ. Every single one of us are born with that Light. The "death" was the separation from God - that moment when we translate from pre-mortal existence to mortal birth. That's when we shed every single thing we knew from before and leave God. Converting from Catholic to LDS... or Muslim to Christian - is not a death as we carry the truths that we learned to the next phase of the journey to Christ. It is not a death but a conversion... or a graduation. Now, mortal death is shedding every single mortal thing we had. A Christian would not fear mortal death in the same manner that they did not fear spiritual death upon their mortal birth as they have faith that Christ's Atonement will bring them resurrection and reunification with God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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