Why do people leave the Church?

[NeedleinA]

1 hour ago, flameburns623 said:

That even Church numbers reflect the smallest Church growth in many decades, despite record numbers of missionaries.

That the "Millennial Generation" are showing a tremendous decline in interest in religion.

And that church attendance is the lowest it has been for a very long time.

The rumors of high numbers of resignations of LDS may be exaggerated or untrue, but there seem to be reasons behind the talk.

I'll add some thoughts to @flameburns623 post. The decline in interest towards "organized" religion is not just a Mormon issue. This is a trend that most organized religions in America and Europe are facing right now, this is nothing unique to the LDS church, though it may feel that way some times since we are primarily involved with the affairs of LDS church.

Since flameburns referenced books dealing with faith crisis, I'll quote from one:
"many places, including western Europe and America, have witnessed steady declines in religious belief, affiliation, and confidence. A number of recent studies have pointed to the rise of the "nones" (category/group) as one of the most significant religious developments in modern America. When asked about their religious affiliation in a survey, these are the people who respond "none". The nones - not to be confused with nuns - are not necessarily agnostics or atheists. In fact, they often describe themselves as "spiritual but not religious". Many report they they still believe in God and retain some kind of personal spiritual practice but at the same time choose not to affiliate with any kind of organized religion." - Planted, P. Mason.

Surprisingly the people who consider themselves "religious/spiritual" is increasing, BUT those who go practice it with organized religion is down. Americans used to place high confidence in organized religion. That appears to have declined in the mid 1980s. "A series of scandals" involving televangelist, Catholic sex scandals, religious inspired terrorism have all appeared to add to the decline in the confidence that Americans have in organized religions. Perhaps for some they could add our stance on gay marriage to that list too.

So again, Americans actually have a rise in the desire to be spiritual but don't seem to trust in places where they can go to express it... AND this is not unique to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints despite what some people might try to allude to or exaggerate upon. 

Edited May 9, 2016 by NeedleinA

[NeedleinA]

3 hours ago, flameburns623 said:

I went inactive because work kept me out of Sunday services ...

While Sunday Services are nice and important, what does that have to do with a testimony?  What does that have to do with the Book of Mormon being true, attending the temple on your free days, watching General Conference or other LDS programming on-line at your leisure, reading your Ensign, etc, etc. etc.? Any testimony based on the church being a nice social club or founded in the "people" being nice or not, will never stand up over time. 

Edited May 9, 2016 by NeedleinA

[Blackmarch]

1 hour ago, NeedleinA said:

While Sunday Services are nice and important, what does that have to do with a testimony?  What does that have to do with the Book of Mormon being true, attending the temple on your free days, watching General Conference or other LDS programming on-line at your leisure, reading your Ensign, etc, etc. etc.? Any testimony based on the church being a nice social club or founded in the "people" being nice or not, will never stand up over time. 

It is one way a person can get a dose of the spirit. One brick among others that helps builds foundation. Like other bricks of the foundation- praying, scripture study, removing unclean things from your life, etc... 
The scriptures do say to meet together oft to lift and edify each other.

BUT most importantly, the ordinance of the sacrament is not a trifle thing.

[flameburns623]

5 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

While Sunday Services are nice and important, what does that have to do with a testimony?  What does that have to do with the Book of Mormon being true, attending the temple on your free days, watching General Conference or other LDS programming on-line at your leisure, reading your Ensign, etc, etc. etc.? Any testimony based on the church being a nice social club or founded in the "people" being nice or not, will never stand up over time. 

I joined in 1978/79. Had my own faith crisis about a year after joining and wasn't part of the Church for awhile. I became very active for about three yearsin the late 1980's. Then the changes at work and in my ward which I described earlier took place.

Meanwhile, my life went on. I married, divorced, remarried, raised kids, etcetera.

Pursued a career which usually kept me working on weekends. This went on for most of twenty years.

I attended Church when I could, sometimes for months on end. But it was pretty obvious that LDS life in the wards I attended centered around Sunday and the three-hour bloc. I was never deemed "active enough" to be tendered a calling. Nor even to be visited by home teachers.

I explained earlier what happened when I made a concerted effort to go on teaching assignments. This was at the tail end of my LDS Church membership. Before I decided if I was going to be Mormon or Catholic, I set forth a year of reflection on the matter.

As part of that, I purposed to attend LDS services as regularly as possible for at least six months--at this point, I had a job assignment which usually gave me Sundays off, though I could be called-in. This was when I was given the list of home teaching assignments entirely of committed inactives. 

I eventually also approached my bishop about getting a temple recommend: at this point, I had been faithfully attending for nearly six months. With punctuated absences due to being called in periodically.

But I was there at least twice per month, every month, along with paying tithing and all else that goes with living a Mormon lifestyle.

I remember standing in the Meetinghouse hall when I brought this up to the bishop. He wasn't abrupt nor rude or anything but his reply was, "Come see me in about five or six months: you don't attend very much, and there is an interview involved, and the anawers can't be 'I'm working on things'." 

I think that I did try to correct him that I had already attended for six months. But it was clear that I was getting a bit of a brush-off.

A few weeks later the ward schedule changed (the building is shared and we swap turns as to who gets the  morning time slot). Practically at the same time my work assignment changed so that Sunday afternoon attendance was not practical. And, I think the ward bishop changed, too.

So, attending early morning Sunday Mass for an hour was do-able, attending three hours in the afternoon of ward services was impractical. And, as soon as I stopped attending, I was off the ward radar screen again. Not that I was ever on it: as I mentioned earlier, home teachers never had come to meet with me previously, and this never did change.

The question in the OP was, why do people resign or leave? I went into the personal details of my own situation not because I was or am hurt by what happened, but to illustrate one way it is that people get "unplugged" and then decide that LDS Church membership just isn't important enough to them to worry about.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, flameburns623 said:

I went inactive because work kept me out of Sunday services at the same time that my former ward was split and I was assigned to a new one. Where I was a complete stranger. 

I'm not certain if I ever saw a home teacher again. I got a postcard once or twice, and I got a letter one time.

But even when I attended regularly for a few months, even when I went to the Elder's Quorum President and got some home teaching assignments for myself, I don't recall seeing my own home teacher. He approached me in Church, got my phone #, but to my knowledge never called or came by.

Incidentally, my own home teaching companion ducked doing HT'ing visits for a couple of months. So I went put on my own and found several of those assigned to us wanted no visits, and none of my assigned folks were active or interested in Church.

When I stopped attending, I stopped hearing from the ward. A few years later I just started going to the Catholic Church. Their services fit better the lifestyle of someone with an erratic work schedule. Since I no longer identified as LDS, I eventually resigned.

Flame,

That sounds like a perfect example of "lack of spiritual nourishment".  Home teaching is not taken nearly as seriously as it should be.  That is sad.

BTW, what is your line of work that keeps you gone on Sundays?

[flameburns623]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Flame,

That sounds like a perfect example of "lack of spiritual nourishment".  Home teaching is not taken nearly as seriously as it should be.  That is sad.

BTW, what is your line of work that keeps you gone on Sundays?

I'm a security officer in the contract secueuty field. For much of the past 28 years I held various positions of supervisory responsibility, which often meant I was subject to being called in if there were absences. Even if I happened to have a Sunday off I couldn't expect the pager or phone not to go off and summon me to work.

In any case, security work most often means evenings/nights/weekends/ holidays. That's when the officers worked, that's when the supervisors had to be in the field to check on them and assist them. 

I accepted a position a year or so ago as a lead which includes weekends off. That has been nice. And since I am contemplating a return, I am able to attend services these days.

[NeedleinA]

 

16 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

While Sunday Services are nice and important, what does that have to do with a testimony?  

 

14 hours ago, Blackmarch said:

One brick among others that helps builds foundation. 

Just in case, since we are the internet and tone gets lost sometimes, I'm not trying to argue with any one especially not with @flameburns623, and my tone is very chill. Okay, here goes...

You are correct Blackmarch, Sunday Services are "one brick", however, what about all the other bricks at your disposal. Is a testimony house built on only one brick? 10? 100? or rather 1000s? If you are unable to be edified by one brick, then rely on other bricks instead. If I were in a situation where I was unable to attend my allotted Ward time and lacked spiritual nourishment on Sunday and it was a consistent issue, I might start by:

1. Scheduling a time through the Ward Executive Sec. and setting up a real meeting with my Bishop. Explain my situation to my Bishop in crystal clear terms. "I am unable to attend our Ward because of..., however, I have a testimony and don't want to become lost or overlooked simply because I can't make it to the Ward each Sunday. What options are available to me?"

2. I would look at the other Wards that attend my building. I would attend any other Ward I could for any amount of time that I could. I wouldn't care if anyone said, I should attend my own Ward. If my choice is to attend my Ward or "nothing", well I'd take option 3 and go to another Ward regardless. I would leave my records in my home ward and attend else where. 

3. I would look into institute classes offered in my area. We have a local college and they offer institute classes through the week and through out the day.

4. I would ask my Bishop for a calling that was not super demanding on specific times. I live next to a Nuc. Air Force Base, we have brethren always on call. I use them as instructors for High Priest. I always have an extra lesson prepared if they get called away suddenly. Other callings that work at their own pace and schedule, Membership Clerk, Scout Advancement, Bulletin Designer, Building Coordinator, Etc. I would take anything versus nothing.

5. I would associate with other LDS members online in a forum

6. I would watch BYU worship service online for those that can't attend normal services:
http://www.byutv.org/show/89883728-9bf8-4d39-b699-cb49bc2a51c6/worship-service

7. Etc. Etc. Etc.

One thing I wouldn't do is give up my testimony. Like Pres. Monson said, "May we ever choose the harder right instead of the easier wrong". 

Edited May 9, 2016 by NeedleinA

[Sunday21]

11 hours ago, flameburns623 said:

I joined in 1978/79. Had my own faith crisis about a year after joining and wasn't part of the Church for awhile. I became very active for about three yearsin the late 1980's. Then the changes at work and in my ward which I described earlier took place.

Meanwhile, my life went on. I married, divorced, remarried, raised kids, etcetera.

Pursued a career which usually kept me working on weekends. This went on for most of twenty years.

I attended Church when I could, sometimes for months on end. But it was pretty obvious that LDS life in the wards I attended centered around Sunday and the three-hour bloc. I was never deemed "active enough" to be tendered a calling. Nor even to be visited by home teachers.

I explained earlier what happened when I made a concerted effort to go on teaching assignments. This was at the tail end of my LDS Church membership. Before I decided if I was going to be Mormon or Catholic, I set forth a year of reflection on the matter.

As part of that, I purposed to attend LDS services as regularly as possible for at least six months--at this point, I had a job assignment which usually gave me Sundays off, though I could be called-in. This was when I was given the list of home teaching assignments entirely of committed inactives. 

I eventually also approached my bishop about getting a temple recommend: at this point, I had been faithfully attending for nearly six months. With punctuated absences due to being called in periodically.

But I was there at least twice per month, every month, along with paying tithing and all else that goes with living a Mormon lifestyle.

I remember standing in the Meetinghouse hall when I brought this up to the bishop. He wasn't abrupt nor rude or anything but his reply was, "Come see me in about five or six months: you don't attend very much, and there is an interview involved, and the anawers can't be 'I'm working on things'." 

I think that I did try to correct him that I had already attended for six months. But it was clear that I was getting a bit of a brush-off.

A few weeks later the ward schedule changed (the building is shared and we swap turns as to who gets the  morning time slot). Practically at the same time my work assignment changed so that Sunday afternoon attendance was not practical. And, I think the ward bishop changed, too.

So, attending early morning Sunday Mass for an hour was do-able, attending three hours in the afternoon of ward services was impractical. And, as soon as I stopped attending, I was off the ward radar screen again. Not that I was ever on it: as I mentioned earlier, home teachers never had come to meet with me previously, and this never did change.

The question in the OP was, why do people resign or leave? I went into the personal details of my own situation not because I was or am hurt by what happened, but to illustrate one way it is that people get "unplugged" and then decide that LDS Church membership just isn't important enough to them to worry about.

Thank you for posting this! It reminds me of my responsibilities as a visiting teacher.

[flameburns623]

On 5/9/2016 at 1:42 PM, NeedleinA said:

 

 

Just in case, since we are the internet and tone gets lost sometimes, I'm not trying to argue with any one especially not with @flameburns623, and my tone is very chill. Okay, here goes...

You are correct Blackmarch, Sunday Services are "one brick", however, what about all the other bricks at your disposal. Is a testimony house built on only one brick? 10? 100? or rather 1000s? If you are unable to be edified by one brick, then rely on other bricks instead. If I were in a situation where I was unable to attend my allotted Ward time and lacked spiritual nourishment on Sunday and it was a consistent issue, I might start by:

1. Scheduling a time through the Ward Executive Sec. and setting up a real meeting with my Bishop. Explain my situation to my Bishop in crystal clear terms. "I am unable to attend our Ward because of..., however, I have a testimony and don't want to become lost or overlooked simply because I can't make it to the Ward each Sunday. What options are available to me?"

2. I would look at the other Wards that attend my building. I would attend any other Ward I could for any amount of time that I could. I wouldn't care if anyone said, I should attend my own Ward. If my choice is to attend my Ward or "nothing", well I'd take option 3 and go to another Ward regardless. I would leave my records in my home ward and attend else where. 

3. I would look into institute classes offered in my area. We have a local college and they offer institute classes through the week and through out the day.

4. I would ask my Bishop for a calling that was not super demanding on specific times. I live next to a Nuc. Air Force Base, we have brethren always on call. I use them as instructors for High Priest. I always have an extra lesson prepared if they get called away suddenly. Other callings that work at their own pace and schedule, Membership Clerk, Scout Advancement, Bulletin Designer, Building Coordinator, Etc. I would take anything versus nothing.

5. I would associate with other LDS members online in a forum

6. I would watch BYU worship service online for those that can't attend normal services:
http://www.byutv.org/show/89883728-9bf8-4d39-b699-cb49bc2a51c6/worship-service

7. Etc. Etc. Etc.

One thing I wouldn't do is give up my testimony. Like Pres. Monson said, "May we ever choose the harder right instead of the easier wrong". 

I appreciate the thoughts expressed here. You might, however, look over Patrick Mason's book "Planted", as well as Teryl Givens' book, "The Crucible of Doubt" for a bit more insight and perhaps empathy for those who leave or become inactive because they are undergoing a faith crisis.

Givens and Mason have also done some podcast interviews: just finished tonight listening to Bill Reel do one with Patrick Mason. 

Understanding Fowler's Stages of Faith and Perry's Stages of Ethical and Moral Development can also help to get a better handle upon what leads people to walk away, temporarily or forever.

Although different in many ways, Fowler and Perry share some similar insights.

Both say that human beings pass through the early stages each delineate as a normal part of maturing.

Both note that many, if not most people arrive at Stage Three  of development and are able to find equilibrium and stability at that stage for most if not all of their lives.

At Stage Three, a balance is achieved between autonomy and conformity to authority; between trust and confidence in what one believes, and recognition of some paradoxes and imponderables which an individual puts on a mental shelf and hopes to resolve some day.

However, Fowler and Perry each note that various factors may propel someone into Stage Four, into a place where they experience doubts, angst, and even anger as they squarely face the import of issues not readily resolved or ignored.

Those issues MAY BE, but don't have to be intellectual doubts; and they do not have to involve moral ambivalence or failings. The person may simply experience a conversion to another way of thinking, what Thomas Kuhn might call a "paradigm shift".

For whatever reason, their "shelf" of questions and of misgivings "breaks", and they often distance themselves for a time. 

A lot of Stage Four people, btw, are frustrated, angry, or feel wounded by the religion they had embraced in Stages One thru Three: ex-Mormons, anti-Mormons, and aggressive atheists are found in the Stage Four phase. So are faithful Christians who speak of being in the "dark night of the soul".  Some get "stuck" there. Others pass through it readily.

Those who continue on through the stages laid out by Fowler or Perry find themselves able to function on a different level within a religious paradigm, adopting a more nuanced approach to their faith and able to apply it in different ways. 

I honestly felt when I left that I was "trading up" to a way wherein I could serve Christ better.

And, should I choose to return to Mormonism, it will be because I feel that in my new personal situation, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints will help me continue serving Christ better. 

Be blessed!

[NeedleinA]

1 hour ago, flameburns623 said:

I appreciate the thoughts expressed here. You might, however, look over Patrick Mason's book "Planted", ...for a bit more insight and perhaps empathy for those who leave or become inactive because they are undergoing a faith crisis.

Be blessed!

On 5/9/2016 at 9:31 PM, NeedleinA said:

books dealing with faith crisis, I'll quote from one: - Planted, P. Mason.

On 5/8/2016 at 6:24 PM, flameburns623 said:

I went inactive because work kept me out of Sunday services

@flameburns623
It is funny that you suggested I look over Planted, since I previous quoted from that exact book in this thread to address one of your posts. Yes, it and other books are wonderful in addressing concerns of doubt. I'm sorry if you feel I need a bit more insight or empathy when it comes to those who have had a faith crisis, but I assure you as one who personally went through a faith crisis years ago, I have plenty of empathy for the situation. All of my comments that proceeded were solely to address what seemed like "I left the church over a scheduling conflict with my job". That statement was the one that triggered all of my responses, and has been the issue I have been seeking to address. 

IF you are saying you had a faith crisis and didn't leave the church because of "work" but rather you left over: disbelief, doctrine concerns, lack of faith, church history, doubts of the gospel, etc. THEN perhaps you may have perceived a bit more empathy in my statements. I would have approached your situation differently had you simply said "I went inactive because of a faith crisis" vs. a work scheduling issue. 

Just a point of reference, typically when I write on the forum I am writing for both you/OP AND for the benefit of others in your shoes who may come and read this thread later on down the road. I share ideas and suggestions so that they realize there are alternatives and avenues of hope they may follow instead of simply going inactive. Experiencing a faith crisis is not a required step in life's journey. For some it is, and many others it simply isn't. 

Ultimately Flameburn623, I do have empathy for you and your situation and truly wish you the best!! Be blessed as well!

Edited May 12, 2016 by NeedleinA

[Blackmarch]

On 5/9/2016 at 0:42 PM, NeedleinA said:

 

 

Just in case, since we are the internet and tone gets lost sometimes, I'm not trying to argue with any one especially not with @flameburns623, and my tone is very chill. Okay, here goes...

You are correct Blackmarch, Sunday Services are "one brick", however, what about all the other bricks at your disposal. Is a testimony house built on only one brick? 10? 100? or rather 1000s? If you are unable to be edified by one brick, then rely on other bricks instead. If I were in a situation where I was unable to attend my allotted Ward time and lacked spiritual nourishment on Sunday and it was a consistent issue, I might start by:

1. Scheduling a time through the Ward Executive Sec. and setting up a real meeting with my Bishop. Explain my situation to my Bishop in crystal clear terms. "I am unable to attend our Ward because of..., however, I have a testimony and don't want to become lost or overlooked simply because I can't make it to the Ward each Sunday. What options are available to me?"

2. I would look at the other Wards that attend my building. I would attend any other Ward I could for any amount of time that I could. I wouldn't care if anyone said, I should attend my own Ward. If my choice is to attend my Ward or "nothing", well I'd take option 3 and go to another Ward regardless. I would leave my records in my home ward and attend else where. 

3. I would look into institute classes offered in my area. We have a local college and they offer institute classes through the week and through out the day.

4. I would ask my Bishop for a calling that was not super demanding on specific times. I live next to a Nuc. Air Force Base, we have brethren always on call. I use them as instructors for High Priest. I always have an extra lesson prepared if they get called away suddenly. Other callings that work at their own pace and schedule, Membership Clerk, Scout Advancement, Bulletin Designer, Building Coordinator, Etc. I would take anything versus nothing.

5. I would associate with other LDS members online in a forum

6. I would watch BYU worship service online for those that can't attend normal services:
http://www.byutv.org/show/89883728-9bf8-4d39-b699-cb49bc2a51c6/worship-service

7. Etc. Etc. Etc.

One thing I wouldn't do is give up my testimony. Like Pres. Monson said, "May we ever choose the harder right instead of the easier wrong". 

Apologies. every time i read it sounded as tho it was trivializing the sacriment in my head.
not attending because you can't and because you simply chose not to are two different things. If god is to be just if you do what you can to attend and still can't you'd still have the spirit with you. But think that is the key difference there- 1 is where the choice is not in your hands and one is where it is.

 

[NeedleinA]

1 hour ago, Blackmarch said:

Apologies. every time i read it sounded as tho it was trivializing the sacriment in my head.
not attending because you can't and because you simply chose not to are two different things. If god is to be just if you do what you can to attend and still can't you'd still have the spirit with you. But think that is the key difference there- 1 is where the choice is not in your hands and one is where it is.

 

No apologies needed at all! Keep on posting and keeping the threads going!

[FogCity]

I have a teenager daughter that has left the church.  It has been incredibly difficult for me to reconcile what I believe is right for her versus accepting that she has her own free-agency (if anyone has any sound advice on that I am all ears? but that's a different topic).

I believe one of the reasons some young people in a heavily populated LDS area leave the gospel is the simple desire just to be different/unique.  When almost everyone you associate with is active, attending seminary, preparing for missions, it can be suffocating and overwhelming.  It's hard to feel special/important when everyone around you is doing the exact same thing.  My daughter grew up with the gospel in her home, good friends, incredible young woman leaders and relatives who were good examples to her.  For whatever it just isn't for her right now. 

Sigh, it's heart-breaking

[The Folk Prophet]

What I don't get is when people try to lay the cause of others leaving the church at the feet of the church.

At the broadest sense, the reason why people leave the church is because Satan is working overtime and he's winning with some people. When things are actually considered in that regard then there are clear and plain answers that are clearly and plainly given in the clear and plain scriptures and teachings prophets and apostles. Mostly it comes down to humility paired with hope, faith and desire methinks.

[The Folk Prophet]

On 5/6/2016 at 8:29 PM, MormonGator said:

I don't have a testimony on the First Vision because I wasn't there. I accept it as historical on faith. 

Actually, when one claims a testimony of the first vision of the like (as I do) it is, funnily enough, a hearsay witness. Of course the hearsay comes from an absolutely reliable source. But, yeah...hearsay.

So what we really testify to others is what was testified to us rather than something we witnessed directly.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, FogCity said:

I have a teenager daughter that has left the church.  It has been incredibly difficult for me to reconcile what I believe is right for her versus accepting that she has her own free-agency (if anyone has any sound advice on that I am all ears? but that's a different topic).

I believe one of the reasons some young people in a heavily populated LDS area leave the gospel is the simple desire just to be different/unique.  When almost everyone you associate with is active, attending seminary, preparing for missions, it can be suffocating and overwhelming.  It's hard to feel special/important when everyone around you is doing the exact same thing.  My daughter grew up with the gospel in her home, good friends, incredible young woman leaders and relatives who were good examples to her.  For whatever it just isn't for her right now. 

Sigh, it's heart-breaking

I'm so sorry abut your situation, but speaking as someone who left the church he grew up with, you are exactly right. It's suffocating and overwhelming to be engrossed in a religion 24/7, in particular for a young person. The worst thing you can do is try to force her into the church or just lecture her. She'll shut down and be even more turned off. You are in my prayers. 

 

Heck, I'm in a new ward that is about 85% retirees. It's overwhelming for me because they assume/forget that I have other responsibilities that need to be addressed.  

[The Folk Prophet]

5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I'm so sorry abut your situation, but speaking as someone who left the church he grew up with, you are exactly right. It's suffocating and overwhelming to be engrossed in a religion 24/7, in particular for a young person. The worst thing you can do is try to force her into the church or just lecture her. She'll shut down and be even more turned off. You are in my prayers. 

 

Heck, I'm in a new ward that is about 85% retirees. It's overwhelming for me because they assume/forget that I have other responsibilities that need to be addressed.  

Your particular biases do not apply to everyone else in the world.

[mrmarklin]

Lots of reasons given, but for most people that are in voluntary organizations there is a rule of thumb called the 80-20 rule. Twenty percent of the people do eighty percent of the work. Those committed to the Church do most of the work and tend to rise in leadership accordingly.  They are the 20%.  There is also a group that will attend regularly, usually another 20%, but don't ask them to do too much too often!

Of course a good social environment can improve attendance somewhat, but mostly it is what it is  

In in my experience, not only in the Church, is that most people are fairly committed to those organizations they belong to even if their attendance may be sporadic at best. Just because someone doesn't attend Church doesn't necessarily mean they don't believe, or have "left the Church".

[Guest MormonGator]

19 minutes ago, mrmarklin said:

Lots of reasons given, but for most people that are in voluntary organizations there is a rule of thumb called the 80-20 rule. Twenty percent of the people do eighty percent of the work. Those committed to the Church do most of the work and tend to rise in leadership accordingly.  They are the 20%.  There is also a group that will attend regularly, usually another 20%, but don't ask them to do too much too often!

Of course a good social environment can improve attendance somewhat, but mostly it is what it is  

In in my experience, not only in the Church, is that most people are fairly committed to those organizations they belong to even if their attendance may be sporadic at best. Just because someone doesn't attend Church doesn't necessarily mean they don't believe, or have "left the Church".

This is so true! If the ward is surly or unpleasant-heck, even if individual members are surly or unpleasant-it might keep members or potential members away. That's why I'm so worried about members who act nasty to other members. Do they know the damage they are doing?! 

 

 

[Blackmarch]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

This is so true! If the ward is surly or unpleasant-heck, even if individual members are surly or unpleasant-it might keep members or potential members away. That's why I'm so worried about members who act nasty to other members. Do they know the damage they are doing?! 

 

 

Unfortunately or fortunately such members probably dont have a clue.

[Guest MormonGator]

11 hours ago, Blackmarch said:

Unfortunately or fortunately such members probably dont have a clue.

No they don't. It's a good thing to remember that even online people read/listen to what you say and will judge all LDS because of it. That doesn't mean I'm perfect obviously, but I do try to remember that. 

[FogCity]

On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 4:41 PM, MormonGator said:

I'm so sorry abut your situation, but speaking as someone who left the church he grew up with, you are exactly right. It's suffocating and overwhelming to be engrossed in a religion 24/7, in particular for a young person. The worst thing you can do is try to force her into the church or just lecture her. She'll shut down and be even more turned off. You are in my prayers. 

 

Heck, I'm in a new ward that is about 85% retirees. It's overwhelming for me because they assume/forget that I have other responsibilities that need to be addressed.  

thank you for your thoughts and prayers.

yea, I forced her to go to church for a couple of weeks when she didn't want to go.  She has anxiety, and that certainly didn't help.  I quickly learned that's not very Christ-like.  Bad parenting on my part.  

The most difficult part of all of this is that a great deal of the happiness has been drained out of our lives for my wife and I.  We have one child.  We feel like we have failed and there is a daunting feeling that future generations of our family won't have the gospel because of her decisions (which is a direct result of us).  I know that's premature, but it's difficult to get past.

I know this is a me problem, but I am finding great difficulty balancing the gift of free-agency with my own strong convictions and testimony of gospel truth.  It's painful.

Edited June 29, 2016 by FogCity

[Guest MormonGator]

10 minutes ago, FogCity said:

thank you for your thoughts and prayers.

yea, I forced her to go to church for a couple of weeks when she didn't want to go.  She has anxiety, and that certainly didn't help.  I quickly learned that's not very Christ-like.  Bad parenting on my part.  

The most difficult part of all of this is that a great deal of the happiness has been drained out of our lives for my wife and I.  We have one child.  We feel like we have failed and there is a daunting feeling that future generations of our family won't have the gospel because of her decisions (which is a direct result of us).  I know that's premature, but it's difficult to get past.

I know this is a me problem, but I am finding great difficulty balancing the gift of free-agency with my own strong convictions and testimony of gospel truth.  It's painful.

Anytime my friend. Know that you, your daughter and your entire family are in my prayers, for sure. And don't be too hard on yourself. You are not a failure at all. 

Edited June 29, 2016 by MormonGator

[TeresaA]

Appreciate this thread as it touches a string in my life. I'm science minded, and there are something that just cause concern. No need to break it down, I think most of us know what those issues are. They don't bother many members of the church, but they do bother some of us.  

[The Folk Prophet]

52 minutes ago, TeresaA said:

Appreciate this thread as it touches a string in my life. I'm science minded, and there are something that just cause concern. No need to break it down, I think most of us know what those issues are. They don't bother many members of the church, but they do bother some of us.  

While I can't speak for everyone, of course, my sense of the matter is that what you're saying here about these issues not bothering many members of the church is not entirely accurate. I think they do. It is how we respond to the bother that makes the difference. When I first came across some of these things, for example, it was bothersome. I never let the bothersome-ness of it make a difference in my commitment to the gospel, and the bothersome-ness was moderately short-lived (I found answers pretty quickly). But I'm pretty sure that anyone who hears that Joseph Smith found a brown stone in a well and used it to treasure hunt and then later used that same stone for translating the BOM is going to stress at least a wee bit upon first hearing it. Maybe that won't be the case moving forward as it becomes more common for these sorts of issues to be addressed early in a child's life (like how Bible miracles, as strange as some of them are, don't bother us at all because we were raised with them). Anyhow, like I said, only my sense of the matter. But...there it is.