omegaseamaster75 Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said: Because he wronged her in doing it and needs to confess to her as part of his repentance. No he doesn't he wants to make himself feel better at her expense. It's a copout and will do more harm than good. It is very selfish and self serving to put a whole relationship at risk so that someone can have some warm fuzzies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said: Because he wronged her in doing it and needs to confess to her as part of his repentance. No he doesn't he wants to make himself feel better at her expense. It's a copout and will do more harm than good. It is very selfish and self serving to put a whole relationship at risk so that someone can have some warm fuzzies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windseeker Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 On 5/22/2016 at 10:43 PM, Latter-Day Marriage said: Likewise, it is God saying that every deed done in secret will be shouted from the housetops. If something like that gets left to judgement day and is only revealed then, then it is too late for them to repent of it. I understand the anger, we don't want to see anyone get away with anything, do we, but I personally don't think that sentiment comes from a place of righteousness. Knowing the damage it can cause to FAMILIES, knowing the majority of LDS women in particular are profoundly ill equipped to manage the realities of the nature of mens weaknesses, surprising since they manage to revere men who indulged in polygamy, I think LDS men ought to tread carefully when confessing their weakness to their wives. How are men who so easily divulge their weakness to their wives without any consideration of their feelings any different then a spouse that divulges she no longer loves you or finds you attractive or thinks your fat..isn't that another betrayal that OUGHT to be confessed. Many of the answers I've read in this thread remind me of the quote from Conan when asked What is best in life? Conan: Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women. Evidently we have not repented until our women lament. While the scriptures may prophesy that hidden things shall be revealed, there is no basis for us shouting sins (ours or others) from the rooftops. Actually doing so would most likely be a sin...aka What is gossip and why is it evil?. Knowing the sins of our leaders (i.e. Bill Clinton) improved our situation? The fact that it's happening shows it's only accelerated the degeneration of society and done nothing to improve it. A prophesy is not a commandment. As I quoted earlier..and just because something is true does not mean we are obliged to divulge it to others. So I think using the rooftop reference to encourage people to share their sins with their spouses is the wrong way to go about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said: Because he wronged her in doing it and needs to confess to her as part of his repentance. No he doesn't he wants to make himself feel better at her expense. It's a copout and will do more harm than good. It is very selfish and self serving to put a whole relationship at risk so that someone can have some warm fuzzies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latter-Day Marriage Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 18 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: No he doesn't he wants to make himself feel better at her expense. It's a copout and will do more harm than good. It is very selfish and self serving to put a whole relationship at risk so that someone can have some warm fuzzies. When somebody wrongs somebody else, confession to them is a required part of the repentance process. You can't say on one hand that he didn't wrong her, and also say that confessing to her puts the relationship at risk. If she is not wronged where is the risk? In truth it was his ACTIONS that put the relationship at risk, not confessing them. Confessing them is the first step in trying to defuse the risk created by the offense. NeedleinA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said: Because he wronged her in doing it and needs to confess to her as part of his repentance. No he doesn't he wants to make himself feel better at her expense. It's a copout and will do more harm than good. It is very selfish and self serving to put a whole relationship at risk so that someone can have some warm fuzzies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: No he doesn't he wants to make himself feel better at her expense. It's a copout and will do more harm than good. It is very selfish and self serving to put a whole relationship at risk so that someone can have some warm fuzzies. Anyone that thinks they will get "warm fuzzies" as they struggle to repent has clearly never repented. Such confession is painful. Part of that pain is knowing their wife is going to have to grapple with it as she works toward forgiveness (which she may or may not be able to do) But that does not change the fact that it harmed her and part of repentance is confessing... The only thing really debatable is the timing... and that is a matter of prayerful consideration Connie and NeedleinA 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, estradling75 said: Anyone that thinks they will get "warm fuzzies" as they struggle to repent has clearly never repented. Such confession is painful. Part of that pain is knowing their wife is going to have to grapple with it as she works toward forgiveness (which she may or may not be able to do) But that does not change the fact that it harmed her and part of repentance is confessing... The only thing really debatable is the timing... and that is a matter of prayerful consideration Sometimes the price may be to high to pay, remember the OP said that he harbors guilt about his behavior. I do not know if the OP has kids but lets go down a road where he does. Lets say this puts her over the top she wants a divorce. Now his eternal marriage is broken up and his kids get to grow up in a broken home all because he had to confess a habit that he kicked and dealt with? No the juice is not worth the squeeze...... Sometimes you just have to suck it up and trust that God will sort it out. Edited May 24, 2016 by omegaseamaster75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latter-Day Marriage Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 12 minutes ago, Windseeker said: I understand the anger, we don't want to see anyone get away with anything, do we, but I personally don't think that sentiment comes from a place of righteousness. Knowing the damage it can cause to FAMILIES, knowing the majority of LDS women in particular are profoundly ill equipped to manage the realities of the nature of mens weaknesses, surprising since they manage to revere men who indulged in polygamy, I think LDS men ought to tread carefully when confessing their weakness to their wives. How are men who so easily divulge their weakness to their wives without any consideration of their feelings any different then a spouse that divulges she no longer loves you or finds you attractive or thinks your fat..isn't that another betrayal that OUGHT to be confessed. Many of the answers I've read in this thread remind me of the quote from Conan when asked What is best in life? Conan: Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women. Evidently we have not repented until our women lament. While the scriptures may prophesy that hidden things shall be revealed, there is no basis for us shouting sins (ours or others) from the rooftops. Actually doing so would most likely be a sin...aka What is gossip and why is it evil?. Knowing the sins of our leaders (i.e. Bill Clinton) improved our situation? The fact that it's happening shows it's only accelerated the degeneration of society and done nothing to improve it. A prophesy is not a commandment. As I quoted earlier..and just because something is true does not mean we are obliged to divulge it to others. So I think using the rooftop reference to encourage people to share their sins with their spouses is the wrong way to go about it. The verses that talk about how deeds done in secret will be shouted from the housetops is not about people going around over sharing, it is in reference to the judgement. At that day there will be no secrets, you will know everything others did, and they will know everything your did. All this 'why hurt her feelings' stuff is nothing more than cowardice trying to look noble. If they were so concerned about their spouse's feelings then they wouldn't have done it in the first place. Keeping an offense against her secret only kicks the can down the road, and when she finds out on judgement day it will hurt far more than telling her now. Leave it to judgement day and it will be too late to heal her hurt before she has to decide if she actually wants to spend eternity with him or not. Keeping it secret isn't about protecting her, it is about him trying to avoid the consequences of your actions, and avoid being held accountable as long as possible. To keep it secret he must resort to lies and excuses to harden his heart against the prompting of the Spirit that push him to confess and repent. If he tells her now, then she can see he is repentant, see his regret, and have the comfort of being confessed to rather than the humiliation and disrespect of being deceived all her life on top of everything else. Windseeker, Connie and NeedleinA 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latter-Day Marriage Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 12 minutes ago, Windseeker said: I understand the anger, we don't want to see anyone get away with anything, do we, but I personally don't think that sentiment comes from a place of righteousness. Knowing the damage it can cause to FAMILIES, knowing the majority of LDS women in particular are profoundly ill equipped to manage the realities of the nature of mens weaknesses, surprising since they manage to revere men who indulged in polygamy, I think LDS men ought to tread carefully when confessing their weakness to their wives. How are men who so easily divulge their weakness to their wives without any consideration of their feelings any different then a spouse that divulges she no longer loves you or finds you attractive or thinks your fat..isn't that another betrayal that OUGHT to be confessed. Many of the answers I've read in this thread remind me of the quote from Conan when asked What is best in life? Conan: Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women. Evidently we have not repented until our women lament. While the scriptures may prophesy that hidden things shall be revealed, there is no basis for us shouting sins (ours or others) from the rooftops. Actually doing so would most likely be a sin...aka What is gossip and why is it evil?. Knowing the sins of our leaders (i.e. Bill Clinton) improved our situation? The fact that it's happening shows it's only accelerated the degeneration of society and done nothing to improve it. A prophesy is not a commandment. As I quoted earlier..and just because something is true does not mean we are obliged to divulge it to others. So I think using the rooftop reference to encourage people to share their sins with their spouses is the wrong way to go about it. The verses that talk about how deeds done in secret will be shouted from the housetops is not about people going around over sharing, it is in reference to the judgement. At that day there will be no secrets, you will know everything others did, and they will know everything your did. All this 'why hurt her feelings' stuff is nothing more than cowardice trying to look noble. If they were so concerned about their spouse's feelings then they wouldn't have done it in the first place. Keeping an offense against her secret only kicks the can down the road, and when she finds out on judgement day it will hurt far more than telling her now. Leave it to judgement day and it will be too late to heal her hurt before she has to decide if she actually wants to spend eternity with him or not. Keeping it secret isn't about protecting her, it is about him trying to avoid the consequences of your actions, and avoid being held accountable as long as possible. To keep it secret he must resort to lies and excuses to harden his heart against the prompting of the Spirit that push him to confess and repent. If he tells her now, then she can see he is repentant, see his regret, and have the comfort of being confessed to rather than the humiliation and disrespect of being deceived all her life on top of everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 36 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said: When somebody wrongs somebody else, confession to them is a required part of the repentance process. You can't say on one hand that he didn't wrong her, and also say that confessing to her puts the relationship at risk. If she is not wronged where is the risk? In truth it was his ACTIONS that put the relationship at risk, not confessing them. Confessing them is the first step in trying to defuse the risk created by the offense. I am not saying that he didn't harm her clearly he did, I am saying that confessing after all this time has past IS putting the relationship at risk. The moment of confession has past, his ship set sail, he blew the light, his window of opportunity was missed. All I'm saying is that more harm that good will come of it. In fairness I don't know his wife she may be a saint and immediately forgive and forget. I rate that as highly unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latter-Day Marriage Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: Sometimes the price may be to high to pay, remember the OP said that he harbors guilt about his behavior. I do not know if the OP has kids but lets go down a road where he does. Lets say this puts her over the top she wants a divorce. Now his eternal marriage is broken up and his kids get to grow up in a broken home all because he had to confess a habit that he kicked and dealt with? No the juice is not worth the squeeze...... Sometimes you just have to suck it up and trust that God will sort it out. Just another cowardly excuse, and a pretty unrealistic one at that given the specifics of the situation. He is responsible for his choices, he choose to do it, and now the right choice is for him to accept the consequences of his actions like a man. If she chooses to over react, that is on her, and it doesn't change one bit what he should do. When could a person not make an excuse like that and say they shouldn't confess adultery, murder, theft etc. etc. because it might hurt somebody's feelings or ruin a relationship? Focus on doing the right thing, not on finding excuses to do what you would rather do. Connie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 13 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: Sometimes the price may be to high to pay, remember the OP said that he harbors guilt about his behavior. I do not know if the OP has kids but lets go down a road where he does. Lets say this puts her over the top she wants a divorce. Now his eternal marriage is broken up and his kids get to grow up in a broken home all because he had to confess a habit that he kicked and dealt with? No the juice is not worth the squeeze...... Sometimes you just have to suck it up and trust that God will sort it out. If the reason is God told them to suck it up and trust him then that is exactly what he should do... If the reason is fear (of whatever type) then he needs to face down the fear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 7 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said: The verses that talk about how deeds done in secret will be shouted from the housetops is not about people going around over sharing, it is in reference to the judgement. At that day there will be no secrets, you will know everything others did, and they will know everything your did. All this 'why hurt her feelings' stuff is nothing more than cowardice trying to look noble. If they were so concerned about their spouse's feelings then they wouldn't have done it in the first place. Keeping an offense against her secret only kicks the can down the road, and when she finds out on judgement day it will hurt far more than telling her now. Leave it to judgement day and it will be too late to heal her hurt before she has to decide if she actually wants to spend eternity with him or not. Keeping it secret isn't about protecting her, it is about him trying to avoid the consequences of your actions, and avoid being held accountable as long as possible. To keep it secret he must resort to lies and excuses to harden his heart against the prompting of the Spirit that push him to confess and repent. If he tells her now, then she can see he is repentant, see his regret, and have the comfort of being confessed to rather than the humiliation and disrespect of being deceived all her life on top of everything else. The cowardice is trying to make yourself feel better at the expense of another. "I get to unload this pile of guilt I've been carrying around and burden another with my misdeeds" No, not fair. When you poop where you eat sometime you have to eat your own poop. There are no secrets at judgment day and I would trust in Gods fair judgment to take every circumstance and fact into account. For me I'd roll the dice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latter-Day Marriage Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 7 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: I am not saying that he didn't harm her clearly he did, I am saying that confessing after all this time has past IS putting the relationship at risk. The moment of confession has past, his ship set sail, he blew the light, his window of opportunity was missed. All I'm saying is that more harm that good will come of it. In fairness I don't know his wife she may be a saint and immediately forgive and forget. I rate that as highly unlikely. The relationship is at risk NOW because of his actions. A voluntary confession is a step toward defusing the risk, keeping quiet continues the risk of her finding out some other way which would be worse than a confession. And there is no statute of limitations. Those of you making these argument I'm sure know that there is not one verse of scripture, not one quote from General Conference, not one authoritative LDS source anywhere that supports keeping it quiet, or using the excuse of 'it was so long ago' or 'it will hurt her feelings so badly' to justify your position on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latter-Day Marriage Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 7 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: I am not saying that he didn't harm her clearly he did, I am saying that confessing after all this time has past IS putting the relationship at risk. The moment of confession has past, his ship set sail, he blew the light, his window of opportunity was missed. All I'm saying is that more harm that good will come of it. In fairness I don't know his wife she may be a saint and immediately forgive and forget. I rate that as highly unlikely. The relationship is at risk NOW because of his actions. A voluntary confession is a step toward defusing the risk, keeping quiet continues the risk of her finding out some other way which would be worse than a confession. And there is no statute of limitations. Those of you making these argument I'm sure know that there is not one verse of scripture, not one quote from General Conference, not one authoritative LDS source anywhere that supports keeping it quiet, or using the excuse of 'it was so long ago' or 'it will hurt her feelings so badly' to justify your position on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latter-Day Marriage Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 7 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: I am not saying that he didn't harm her clearly he did, I am saying that confessing after all this time has past IS putting the relationship at risk. The moment of confession has past, his ship set sail, he blew the light, his window of opportunity was missed. All I'm saying is that more harm that good will come of it. In fairness I don't know his wife she may be a saint and immediately forgive and forget. I rate that as highly unlikely. The relationship is at risk NOW because of his actions. A voluntary confession is a step toward defusing the risk, keeping quiet continues the risk of her finding out some other way which would be worse than a confession. And there is no statute of limitations. Those of you making these argument I'm sure know that there is not one verse of scripture, not one quote from General Conference, not one authoritative LDS source anywhere that supports keeping it quiet, or using the excuse of 'it was so long ago' or 'it will hurt her feelings so badly' to justify your position on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 3 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said: Those of you making these argument I'm sure know that there is not one verse of scripture, not one quote from General Conference, not one authoritative LDS source anywhere that supports keeping it quiet, or using the excuse of 'it was so long ago' or 'it will hurt her feelings so badly' to justify your position on this. From Gospel Principles chapter 19 " We must confess all our sins to the Lord. In addition, we must confess serious sins—such as adultery, fornication, homosexual relations, spouse or child abuse, and the sale or use of illegal drugs—which might affect our standing in the Church, to the proper priesthood authority. If we have sinned against another person, we should confess to the person we have injured. Some less serious sins involve no one but ourselves and the Lord. These may be confessed privately to the Lord." Emphasis added by me, I'll grant that he was unfaithful to his wife while watching porn and masturbating, but if masturbation is on the list all guys are guilty of it. I'd put this on the home repentance program and forget about it. Now if it comes up again this may point to a more serious issue one that should be dealt with as a couple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connie Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 OP - Maybe your wife is one of those who wants to be treated as a child. Maybe your wife is an incurable gossip who will shout out your confessions to anyone and everyone. If that is the case, then perhaps some of the advise you are receiving here may be appropriate. I think most women, however, want to be treated as an equal in their marriage. They don't want to be molly-coddled and told they are just to weak to handle the truth. They want to be a partner in marriage and to be able to share each others burdens, even those of the past. Confessing to your wife will be hard, but as others have said you don't have to go into a lot of detail. It won't immediately make you feel better. In fact, it will immediately make you feel worse. But it's not only the right thing to do doctrinally; it's the right thing to do for a healthier relationship. If it remains unconfessed, it will always be between you. It will be felt in little, unexpected ways, and the relationship will suffer. As i said in my earlier comment, your sexuality is your wife's business. Sexuality is a couple matter. zil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latter-Day Marriage Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 37 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: From Gospel Principles chapter 19 " We must confess all our sins to the Lord. In addition, we must confess serious sins—such as adultery, fornication, homosexual relations, spouse or child abuse, and the sale or use of illegal drugs—which might affect our standing in the Church, to the proper priesthood authority. If we have sinned against another person, we should confess to the person we have injured. Some less serious sins involve no one but ourselves and the Lord. These may be confessed privately to the Lord." Emphasis added by me, I'll grant that he was unfaithful to his wife while watching porn and masturbating, but if masturbation is on the list all guys are guilty of it. I'd put this on the home repentance program and forget about it. Now if it comes up again this may point to a more serious issue one that should be dealt with as a couple. Using porn after getting married does involve an offense against the wife. If a husband is refusing his wife and using masturbation as a substitute for being intimate with her, he is sinning against her that way. And 'everyone does it' doesn't change anything and it isn't ever true either. Hopefully this will only be posted once, the site seem to be wonky today. I'm not double clicking Submit, honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedleinA Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 4 hours ago, Windseeker said: I do think if directed by the Spirit and by a Bishop that we need to discuss our failings with our spouse make sure our intent is pure and if it's pure be prepared to accept the consequence that the burden we unintentionally place may be too much to bear. Great comment Windseeker. There are clearly ill thought out, ill timed and ill worded ways of sharing a secret with a spouse. Consult the Lord in advance and rely on the Spirit to know what to say, how to say it and when to say it. 7 minutes ago, Connie said: If it remains unconfessed, it will always be between you. It will be felt in little, unexpected ways, and the relationship will suffer. This is a great point Connie. Because the "step of restitution" was never executed, did the person who says they repented actually repent? The answer is no. Because this missing step, is well still missing, the person (who sinned) will never find "true" closure. The feeling that he/she should confess to their spouse will rear it's head over and over again throughout the marriage. 57 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: Sometimes the price may be to high to pay, Elder Wirthlin: "You are free to choose and are permitted to act, but you are not free to choose the consequences". Hymn 237 - " Do what is right; let the consequence follow. " 50 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: I am not saying that he didn't harm her clearly he did, Gospel Principles manual - "If we have sinned against another person, we should confess to the person we have injured." Was another person sinned against? If so then this portion/step of repentance applies. The manual doesn't say "If we have sinned against another person, BUT we only personally feel it was a lesser sin, then no need to confess to them". 1 hour ago, Latter-Day Marriage said: Focus on doing the right thing, not on finding excuses to do what you would rather do. Spot on as always Windseeker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windseeker Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 29 minutes ago, Connie said: OP - Maybe your wife is one of those who wants to be treated as a child. Maybe your wife is an incurable gossip who will shout out your confessions to anyone and everyone. If that is the case, then perhaps some of the advise you are receiving here may be appropriate. I think most women, however, want to be treated as an equal in their marriage. They don't want to be molly-coddled and told they are just to weak to handle the truth. They want to be a partner in marriage and to be able to share each others burdens, even those of the past. Confessing to your wife will be hard, but as others have said you don't have to go into a lot of detail. It won't immediately make you feel better. In fact, it will immediately make you feel worse. But it's not only the right thing to do doctrinally; it's the right thing to do for a healthier relationship. If it remains unconfessed, it will always be between you. It will be felt in little, unexpected ways, and the relationship will suffer. As i said in my earlier comment, your sexuality is your wife's business. Sexuality is a couple matter. Connie, I think you're great and I think the relationship you mentioned is what everyone ought to strive for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedleinA Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) dup Edited May 24, 2016 by NeedleinA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latter-Day Marriage Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 28 minutes ago, Connie said: OP - Maybe your wife is one of those who wants to be treated as a child. Maybe your wife is an incurable gossip who will shout out your confessions to anyone and everyone. If that is the case, then perhaps some of the advise you are receiving here may be appropriate. I think most women, however, want to be treated as an equal in their marriage. They don't want to be molly-coddled and told they are just to weak to handle the truth. They want to be a partner in marriage and to be able to share each others burdens, even those of the past. Confessing to your wife will be hard, but as others have said you don't have to go into a lot of detail. It won't immediately make you feel better. In fact, it will immediately make you feel worse. But it's not only the right thing to do doctrinally; it's the right thing to do for a healthier relationship. If it remains unconfessed, it will always be between you. It will be felt in little, unexpected ways, and the relationship will suffer. As i said in my earlier comment, your sexuality is your wife's business. Sexuality is a couple matter. Here's a compromise: Someone in this situation can go to their wife and tell it as a third person story 'A guy I know at work/church/whatever told me had a porn addition but he quit and hasn't done it in a long time. He feels guilty and asked me if he should confess to his wife or not, I told him no.' If she agrees then at the last day when it all gets revealed he can just point back at what she said then and say he took her advice. If she disagrees, he should fess up and face the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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