What do Women Want Most?


Guest
 Share

Recommended Posts

I'm certain that I will offend someone out there.  So I apologize in advance.  I only relay what I've found and that I'm questioning -- what the heck is going on???

I have twice had the occasion to tell the story of Sir Gawain* to some moderate sized gatherings.  The conclusion of this story is that women desire personal sovereignty more than anything else.  At both these occasions, a woman objected and instead declared that a woman wishes to be "pretty" more than anything else.

I brushed it aside both times.  But I remember that the other women present didn't disagree with the woman who objected.  And they didn't necessarily agree with the moral that the story offered.

Since then I have noticed rather odd things about women and beauty that leads me to abandon Ragnelle's wisdom.  We're all aware of so many women who go under the knife to retain or restore their beauty.  But this could easily be attributed to societal norms, pop culture, and unrealistic expectations.  But what about in generations past?  Why did women wear a corsette? Why wear makeup?

Why did a woman invent high heels?  Virtually every woman I know groans about having to wear high heels.  But when I ask why they even bother wearing them, most say that it makes them look better.  I've told both my sister and my wife that I think they look cuter and prettier when they wear flats.  But they insist that is not what other women think.

Huh?

You see, I've asked my wife why she bothers, when I consider her beautiful without all the makeup and the high heels, etc.  And other men are not supposed to be a concern.  She responds by telling me that she's not trying to look prettier for other men.  She's trying to do it to be prettier than other women.  It appears to be a competition thing more than an attraction thing.  I have since discussed this with other men and they tell me their wives say the same thing.  Whaa???  I especially don't understand this coming from Mrs. Carb.  She really doesn't put on airs.  She is very practical and pragmatic.  She's very dedicated to spiritual things.  And she's certainly not what anyone would call a shallow or materialistic person.

It doesn't really make sense to me.  But it seems to be a common phenomenon.  Is it true?  Do women value personal beauty more than personal sovereignty?

*The story I heard and related seemed to be an amalgam of several Arthurian legends about Sir Gawain.  So, the one I linked to was an odd telling.

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Virtually every woman I know groans about having to wear high heels.  But when I ask why they even bother wearing them, most say that it makes them look better.  I've told both my sister and my wife that I think they look cuter and prettier when they wear pumps.  But they insist that is not what other women think.

I believe that "pumps" are a type of high heel, so called because they "pump up" the woman's height.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Vort said:

I believe that "pumps" are a type of high heel, so called because they "pump up" the woman's height.

Sorry.  I was typing fast.  fixed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

She's trying to do it to be prettier than other women.

Tell her that only matters when she's fresh out of the shower.

(Well, if she's going to put in the effort, that will at least direct it where it does the most good.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would say what I want most is security. I'm not ashamed to admit that I want to be protected and provided for. I also want to be secure in the knowledge that I am loved and needed. Secure in my place, wherever I am. Secure in my husband's fidelity. 

I know that being pretty was really important to me most of my life, and I wonder if that's tied in to the need/desire for security. Society tells me that if I'm pretty or hot or sexy enough, I deserve to be loved and to hold on to what I have. If I'm not, someone prettier/hotter/sexier will move in and take my place.

I think I'm past that. I hope I am. I'm heavier than I want to be, but it's not devastating. I can see my youthful beauty fading, but I'm (mostly) okay with that. I know that my husband and loved ones take me as I am. My husband and I have been through enough together that we have binding ties that go beyond what I weigh that year or how deep my wrinkles are getting. I was in awesome shape 3 or 4 years ago, but I'm happier now; not because being less "ideal" makes me happier, but because I'm more secure in deeper things. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MormonGator
16 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

I would say what I want most is security. I'm not ashamed to admit that I want to be protected and provided for. I also want to be secure in the knowledge that I am loved and needed. Secure in my place, wherever I am. Secure in my husband's fidelity. 

I know that being pretty was really important to me most of my life, and I wonder if that's tied in to the need/desire for security. Society tells me that if I'm pretty or hot or sexy enough, I deserve to be loved and to hold on to what I have. If I'm not, someone prettier/hotter/sexier will move in and take my place.

I think I'm past that. I hope I am. I'm heavier than I want to be, but it's not devastating. I can see my youthful beauty fading, but I'm (mostly) okay with that. I know that my husband and loved ones take me as I am. My husband and I have been through enough together that we have binding ties that go beyond what I weigh that year or how deep my wrinkles are getting. I was in awesome shape 3 or 4 years ago, but I'm happier now; not because being less "ideal" makes me happier, but because I'm more secure in deeper things. 

Just knowing what you want is a huge step. I've met so many people who either don't know or can't express what they want. While I'm certainly no relationship expert (many exes and the lovely LadyGator would smack me upside the head if I said otherwise) I think not knowing and or not expressing it can seriously damage a relationship. 

Edited by MormonGator
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest LiterateParakeet

Personal sovereignty hands down.  

Having experienced life at the hands of someone abusive, with no escape in sight (where is a child to go when home is not safe?)...I would never willingly give up my personal sovereignty.  I would rather die, literally.  

Being pretty would probably be nice, but since I don't really know . . . LOL.  I never, ever wear high heels. I was self-conscious about being too tall in high school, and so I never learned to walk in high heels.  I can't do it, and I don't really even want to.  I sometimes wear a little bit of make up, usually not.  I try to dress nicely, and I comb my hair on most days...lol.  But seriously...I had Bells Palsy once, and for about a week and a half one side of my face was paralyzed.  Every where I went people looked at me a second too long.  They didn't mean to be cruel I knew, but it was awkward just the same.  

So having experienced being "ugly" in the sense that people "starred" and having lived without personal sovereignty, I say:

Give me personal sovereignty or give me death!   I think any woman (or man) who says otherwise has never experienced true loss of freedom. 

Edited by LiterateParakeet
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Eowyn said:

I would say what I want most is security. I'm not ashamed to admit that I want to be protected and provided for. I also want to be secure in the knowledge that I am loved and needed. Secure in my place, wherever I am. Secure in my husband's fidelity.

Katharine Hepburn once said of John Wayne that she felt "safe" around him.  Many felt the phenomenon that when he was around, everything was going to be ok.  Some women who worked with Sean Connery said the same about him.

I've considered that most women (and, in fact, most men) just want a sense of security.  And that security can come in many forms: physical, financial, spiritual, emotional, etc.  But I find that what many women look for in a man is really what makes them feel secure in that area of their lives that is most important or where they feel the most vulnerable.

10 hours ago, Eowyn said:

I think I'm past that. I hope I am. I'm heavier than I want to be, but it's not devastating. I can see my youthful beauty fading, but I'm (mostly) okay with that. I know that my husband and loved ones take me as I am. My husband and I have been through enough together that we have binding ties that go beyond what I weigh that year or how deep my wrinkles are getting. I was in awesome shape 3 or 4 years ago, but I'm happier now; not because being less "ideal" makes me happier, but because I'm more secure in deeper things. 

Funny anecdote:

I had always thought that my MIL was an attractive woman.  But one day Mrs. Carb and I were leafing through an old photo album and I saw a picture of her (MIL) when she was in college.  I leaned over to my wife and mumbled,"Your mom was a Hottie!  I can see why your dad was so struck when he met her."

She happened to repeat that to her mother to which she replied,"It's a funny thing.  In RS the other day, we were discussing beauty and aging.  And Sis so-n-so said that when you're 20 you have the face that nature gave you.  When you're 50 you have the face you deserve.  Well, I don't want the face I deserve.  I want the face I had.  Bring back the hottie."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest LiterateParakeet
1 hour ago, zil said:

Even if he didn't, you could just closer your eyes and listen to him rambling. :blush:

For sure! He could read the dictionary, it wouldn't matter. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Gratefully there are many other choices to "want" beyond being attractive or personal sovereignty, and, frankly, I find the choice being set between the two very strange.

Well, the story is very old.  And it was the closest to "feminist" that you could get from back then.  The very idea that women could have desires and wish to rule themselves instead of being ruled by men was a revolutionary thought considering the culture.  

The "being "pretty" aspect was just a sample of the responses I got from women in those sample groups I mentioned.  I wasn't the one who originated the dichotomy -- strange or otherwise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

Well, the story is very old.  And it was the closest to "feminist" that you could get from back then.  The very idea that women could have desires and wish to rule themselves instead of being ruled by men was a revolutionary thought considering the culture.  

The "being "pretty" aspect was just a sample of the responses I got from women in those sample groups I mentioned.  I wasn't the one who originated the dichotomy -- strange or otherwise.

I understand that. I'm not meaning to accuse you of the origination of it. I'm simply stating my view that as an either or it's pretty shallow. I do not find it strange that a majority of people (men or women) are, indeed, driven by the shallow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personal sovereignty was important to women not too long ago.  But in the modern era, even in 3rd world Philippines, personal sovereignty is a given for decades now - it's now the default.  The only thing you can do is lose it through its exercise (such as the personal decision to marry causes one to lose sovereignty to an abusive spouse, etc.).  So it is not surprising that women nowadays take it for granted.

As far as beauty - it is an age-old desire for all people (men and women) to attract a spouse.  It's instinctive.  For the longest time, men with personal sovereignty boost their marketability through financial and physical strength.  The women with personal sovereignty boost their marketability through beauty and wit/talent.

But even that is "so five minutes ago" now.  These days, especially in the western world, men and women's desire to attract spouses is dwindling - they just hook up for fun, usually sexual in nature... and in these hook ups, physical attraction is the currency.

Personally, what I want is to be forgiven.  I want to be understood.  I want the freedom to journey through life, making mistakes along the way, and not be rejected for it.  And shoes... I want stylish shoes.  Not because I want to be pretty.  I just love dressing up with smashing shoes the same way I loved dressing up my Barbies.

Edited by anatess2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I would hope that what women want is to be humble followers of Christ, regardless of attractiveness and/or sovereignty, and frankly willing to abandon both for Him.

Oh, don't let's be silly.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MormonGator

I think all women are individuals and want different things. That's why I've never really bought into this question in the first place. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The answer that "every woman wants to be pretty" shouldn't be a surprise. Our society, and even LDS cultural cliche's, entice toddlers (via parents), young girls, teenage girls, and adults to look pretty. We all, I would assume all (when single), have entertained, even desired, the thought of being better looking (prettier/more handsome), because if we were better looking that girl/boy probably would be more interested in me. ;)

We don't have to look far, in our LDS culture, to the cliche, "Young men, if you work hard and serve an honorable mission, then ________________," and I am sure the blank space can be filled in by anyone who ever served a mission. As I am years away from my mission, some immaturities have passed, and one realizes how implicitly that insults the good, well balanced, kind hearted young woman who in this life is not (pertaining to this world) "pretty." We ultimately, attribute to the desire to be "pretty". 

Our culture, if a man or woman, is prettier (let us say Supermodel) they are less punished for the same mistakes individuals that are less attractive experience. We all have experienced this, either being the one punished or the one less punished because of our appearance. My daughter, in school last year, turned some boys in to the teacher who were teasing a girl who was less attractive, and thus, we shouldn't be surprised when she (the girl being teased) goes home enticed by the thought, "I wish I was prettier."

The natural man loves beauty. We love beautiful flowers, we love beautiful rivers, we love beautiful pictures. We are attracted to beauty; however, I have never understood certain aspects of fashion, i.e. higher heels, and platforms. The way some women walk in them I think to myself, "Really, you are that desperate for fashion that you are willing to potentially injure your back and knees?" OK, whatever suits your fancy, and then again, I have never been one into any fashion. I just like to look nice, and at times my beloved will say, "Anddenex, you realize what you are wearing doesn't match?" My response, after looking at my clothes, "Hmm...ya your right, but I like these pants and I like this shirt. Works for me." She sometimes won't let me leave until I change my shirt or pants (haha). That is usually only when we are going to be seen together on a date though. ;)

That a few cents on the matter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the answer to "What women want most?" is the same kind of answer we give to "What sin is the most important one to work on?"  The answer to the latter is "Which ever one is currently troubling you."  This make the answer to the former something like "Which ever thing they feel they have lacked."

Thus if you have someone that has be deprived of their agency to make choices... then they will state the thing they want most is personal sovereignty.  If for whatever reason they have felt insecure then they will state security....   If they don't feel pretty enough (and in this world of Hollywood photo shopping as the impossible standard "pretty" this is understandable) then they will state being pretty. 

Since it is a highly personal thing the only universal answer would be "Whatever they feel the have lacked"

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know if this was brought up yet, but women didn't invent high heels. 

They were a male fashion, specifically invented to make riding a horse easier and then turned into an impractical male fashion of the aristocracy. They came out of vogue with men when women adopted them to make themselves look more masculine. It went from being viewed as a very masculine fashion, to an effeminate fashion.

Why do we keep wearing them? The same reason men from the 1700's kept wearing them. Fashion trends. Men today follow fashion trends as well, which leans toward simplicity. This has not been the historical norm. Would you consider men of the past lack personal sovereignty because they followed male fashion trends?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share