Homosexual journey through the Mormon church


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Guest MormonGator
1 hour ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I know you are new to the church and it's a lot to take in.So be patient. 

Best advice on the thread so far. 

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On May 24, 2016 at 0:32 PM, Latter-Day Marriage said:

'wasting seed' isn't why homosexual sex isn't wrong, it is wrong because our bodies are temples, our sexuality and the power to create life is the most sacred and god-like attribute about us, and homosexual behaviour is a desecration of that.  Homosexual behaviour is not just gay sex either.  A gay man wishing to be in full fellowship in the church would need to keep all his relationship with other men as platonic friendships.  A non-sexual romance is not OK, and also pretty unlikely to remain non-sexual in the long run.

Cross dressing is about presenting yourself as a member of the opposite gender, or pretending to be such.  My wife often will wear men's pants or shirts simply because they sometimes fit her better but nobody is going to mistake her for a guy and that isn't cross dressing.  There is a verse in Leviticus that forbids cross dressing, and it is isn't considered to be up to the standards the church upholds.  The only policy I know of about it is that if a Ward has a costume party, you can't come dressed as a member of the opposite sex.  Context and intention are important.  How members would react to a guy wearing makeup will likely vary.  I would say ask yourself what your reasons are for it, and if you feel after prayer that it is in keeping with following Christ and being an example of a believer.

As for your membership number, ask your ward clerk for it.  I'm not sure how soon after a baptism a number is given but it isn't like you get a membership card.  It's mainly for the church's use, not something you'll need very often.

Ummmh...my ward had a barbecue and my bishop came dressed in a hula skirt and believe me he was very very happy with himself!

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1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

Ummmh...my ward had a barbecue and my bishop came dressed in a hula skirt and believe me he was very very happy with himself!

Grass skirts are suitable for either gender in Polynesian culture.  Go to the right places and you'll see deacons passing the sacrament in them, a church video from ages ago showed missionaries wearing them while tracting.  It isn't cross dressing.

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10 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

my ward had a barbecue and my bishop came dressed in a hula skirt and believe me he was very very happy with himself!

The issue isn't the clothing, per se, it's the intent to deceive others into thinking the wearer might be of the complementary sex.

Lehi

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So, as a lot of you have probably heard, last night there was a shooting in a gay club in Orlando, Florida. 50 people were killed, 53 were injured.

It was an attack based on religious intolerance (the person responsible acted under his extreme, warped view of Islam). When I heard the news, I txted my missionaries, asking if we could talk about the LDS' church's view on this shooting and I also asked if, for our next lesson, we could meet in my city's LGBT coffee shop, as I wanted to go there to show my support and I won't have another chance to go into town this week, and the missionaries said we could meet there, which is honestly quite amazing of them. I'm sure there's a lot of people in the church who'd hate to enter a LGBT coffee shop, so it's definitely something I appreciate. Also, while I'm there, I'll briefly mention about how I had the crush. I won't say who I had the crush on, but I'll say to them that I did have a crush on one of the missionaries in our area (so they'll know it was either them or one of the two others) and it was a large part of the reason why I didn't go to church for the last two Sundays. The branch president was understanding when I said it to him, and I'm sure the missionaries will be the same. I no longer have as powerful a crush as I once did, but I think it will be helpful to just be honest about it and, quite frankly, if I find guys cute in the future, I'll just admit it. If the Orlando shootings taught me anything, it's that life is too short to waste time hiding who you are. And, when I'm being honest and open about it, it will be easier to "choose the right" and not act on those feelings - a large part of temptation is being burdened down by the guilt of keeping those temptations secret. If I admit that I still have gay tendencies, it will be a lot easier to try and move past it. Something I've learnt over the last few weeks, and especially this week as I've done a lot of deep prayer and soul-searching this week, is that having gay thoughts is perfectly normal, even within church circles, as long as you never act on them.

Also, I'll be wearing mascara silver nail varnish to the coffee shop (silver as a reference to "silver bullets" - Teen Wolf is a show I'm addicted to atm). Which means that when I have to do that awkward handshake church members do whenever they meet, the missionaries will notice the nail varnish and mascara, but as I said I'm not going to hold anything back from now on. And no, those bits of makeup aren't to "deceive people into thinking I'm female" but just something that I like wearing.

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Guest MormonGator
2 minutes ago, TilKingdomCome said:

It was an attack based on religious intolerance (the person responsible acted under his extreme, warped view of Islam). When I heard the news, I txted my missionaries, asking if we could talk about the LDS' church's view on this shooting and I also asked if, for our next lesson, we could meet in my city's LGBT coffee shop, as I wanted to go there to show my support and I won't have another chance to go into town this week, and the missionaries said we could meet there, which is honestly quite amazing of them. I'm sure there's a lot of people in the church who'd hate to enter a LGBT coffee shop, so it's definitely something I appreciate.

We agree on the attack, it was based on religious intolerance for sure. 

For the record, my college roommate was gay. When he was in a near fatal car accident I rushed to his side. Him and I still talk today. Not as many LDS are hostile to gay rights as you might think. 

The LBGT community has all of our prayers, for sure. 

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There are more LDS people who are sympathetic and loving towards the LGBTQ community than there are those who speak ill of them. But sadly, you hear more about the latter. If you're trying to be a true disciple of Christ, you love your brother. No if's, and's, or but's about it. Those who don't follow that commandment will be held accountable before God. And when people do treat you badly, forgive them. For if Christ could forgive the individuals who tortured and killed him, we can forgive those who offend us with their words. 

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The church put out a statement on the shooting.

It sounds like you are moving in a good direction.  Everybody has something that is a bigger temptation for them than other things.  Don't beat yourself up for feeling tempted, but don't let temptation put down roots and grow either.

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Awesome! Glad to hear that the church is with the rest of the world on this issue, and thanks for sharing the tweet Latter-Day Marriage :)

So it's morning time now in my country. Before I went to sleep I asked for guidance from God and for a sign to show me what way I'm supposed to live (I always ask for this sign, because as you know I have been conflicted and struggling a bit, but I haven't gotten the sign yet). But then, when I fell asleep, I had a dream and I'm wondering if I'm reading way too much into this but:

I was on top of a tall mountain. I was with a group of other people, including one pregnant woman. A storm happened and it became very dark, practically impossible to see anything. We had to make our way back down the mountain, especially taking care of the woman in need, but it was too dark.

As we descended the mountain, I used a flashlight to try and see my way through the darkness. But then a voice said that I shouldn't use this light - that I'm only using the light because I'm too scared something bad might happen, and instead I should just trust that God will keep us safe and just blindly walk down the mountain (ie without the flashlight) as He'll make sure no harm comes to us. We did so for a while.

But then somehow we were in a furnace (yep, dream transitions are weird), which was basically like the inside of a million cookers but they forgot to turn the cookers off and the place was roasting. I tried for a while to not let the heat get to me, thinking that God would keep us safe like He did on the mountain, but eventually the heat got too much for me, I started screaming "turn off the cooker, turn off the cooker!" and that's when I woke up :P

Immediately after I woke up, I felt bad for letting fear get to me, and knew that I should have just trusted in God and know that, no matter how hot it was, God would make sure that everything would turn out all right. I know it was just a dream but I felt bad by not trusting in Him, and actually had to pray for forgiveness...

Am I reading way too much into this dream? Have any of you ever had similar dreams? Do you think it's something I could tell the missionaries about tomorrow, or would it make me sound lame?! What do you think the pregnant woman might symbolize? I ain't pregnant, nor a woman, and none of the females I know are pregnant either. Everyone I was with on the mountain in the dream were people I've never seen before (ie they weren't people I know in real life)

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On 5/24/2016 at 8:33 AM, TilKingdomCome said:

Homosexuality

I know that the LDS Church views s*x between two members of the same gender a sin, because it's wasting seed etc. But is it ok to be in a completely celibate homosexual relationship?

Think of a common happily married heterosexual couple.  Imagine that the wife in that couple is in a business or social or church gathering.  What would or would not be appropriate for her to do with another man?  Think of yourself (for the purposes of answering the question) as being married to the Church.  Anything you do with males would be the same as this happily married wife.

Would a happily married woman be ok with playing spin the bottle with a bunch of other men even if it was "just for fun"?  Is it ok for her to be in a "celibate but romantic relationship" with another man?  Some will say, but this is different because... reasons.

No.  It isn't.

On 5/24/2016 at 8:33 AM, TilKingdomCome said:

Cross-dressing

I haven't seen any scripture concerning this, and it's something I'm too afraid to ask the missionaries/the bishop about, but what is the Church's view on cross-dressing? By this, I mean that sometimes I wear jackets and shirts that are intended for women. I don't wear dresses and stuff but I wear jackets, as I'm pretty genderfluid. What is the Church's stance on this? Is it a sin or not? Is it a sin to wear nail-varnish/eyeliner? I'm going to a church movie night tomorrow and I really want to wear my favourite jacket to it, which is traditionally a woman's jacket. What's the likelihood of me being ridiculed/shunned for it?

Cross-dressing is largely a cultural thing.  How different is a robe that Jesus wore than dresses women wear today?  Makup used to be worn by men just as it is worn by females today.  So, what's the issue?  It is largely about our respect for others and the common culture.  If you were a manager in a Fortune 500 company, would it be "appropriate" for you to dress the way you want to dress to Church?

I used to think that it shouldn't matter what I wear to work because my work is good enough that I will be appreciated.  One day I was called in to the manager's office and was asked to dress better.  My jeans and t-shirt had to change to slacks and a polo.  Yes, they were considering firing me for this.  What did it have to do with my work?  Nothing.  But they wanted me to dress professionally in case a client came in and asked for a meeting with their senior engineer.  I represented the company.  The way I dressed, my manner, the way I spoke, and even the way I sat in the chair during the meeting, reflected something about the company to the client in such a meeting.  In a larger company, the polo was relegated to casual Fridays only.  I wore a button up shirt and sometimes a tie).

If I'm willing to do this for work, why would I not be willing to do so for the Lord on His day?

When we are baptized, we are making a covenant to take upon ourselves the name of Christ and represent Him wherever we go.  We are no longer "ourselves".  We are representatives of Christ.  When others see us, do they see the image of Christ in our countenance?  Does His light shine in our eyes?  If not, what can we do to change that?

It can be easy to make the argument that Jesus wore essentially a dress during his life.  But if He went about today in mortality, what would he wear?  How would He present Himself?

There is a completely different discussion about "being ourselves" and maintaining our identity while still striving in every way to emulate Him.  And I'd really like to have that discussion -- but on a different thread, because such a discussion isn't just about cross-dressing.  It's about anything that isn't "moral" per se, but in the category of what we consider "personality" or "individuality".

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5 hours ago, TilKingdomCome said:

Awesome! Glad to hear that the church is with the rest of the world on this issue, and thanks for sharing the tweet Latter-Day Marriage :)

So it's morning time now in my country. Before I went to sleep I asked for guidance from God and for a sign to show me what way I'm supposed to live (I always ask for this sign, because as you know I have been conflicted and struggling a bit, but I haven't gotten the sign yet). But then, when I fell asleep, I had a dream and I'm wondering if I'm reading way too much into this but:

I was on top of a tall mountain. I was with a group of other people, including one pregnant woman. A storm happened and it became very dark, practically impossible to see anything. We had to make our way back down the mountain, especially taking care of the woman in need, but it was too dark.

As we descended the mountain, I used a flashlight to try and see my way through the darkness. But then a voice said that I shouldn't use this light - that I'm only using the light because I'm too scared something bad might happen, and instead I should just trust that God will keep us safe and just blindly walk down the mountain (ie without the flashlight) as He'll make sure no harm comes to us. We did so for a while.

But then somehow we were in a furnace (yep, dream transitions are weird), which was basically like the inside of a million cookers but they forgot to turn the cookers off and the place was roasting. I tried for a while to not let the heat get to me, thinking that God would keep us safe like He did on the mountain, but eventually the heat got too much for me, I started screaming "turn off the cooker, turn off the cooker!" and that's when I woke up :P

Immediately after I woke up, I felt bad for letting fear get to me, and knew that I should have just trusted in God and know that, no matter how hot it was, God would make sure that everything would turn out all right. I know it was just a dream but I felt bad by not trusting in Him, and actually had to pray for forgiveness...

Am I reading way too much into this dream? Have any of you ever had similar dreams? Do you think it's something I could tell the missionaries about tomorrow, or would it make me sound lame?! What do you think the pregnant woman might symbolize? I ain't pregnant, nor a woman, and none of the females I know are pregnant either. Everyone I was with on the mountain in the dream were people I've never seen before (ie they weren't people I know in real life)

Dreams can be our subconscious trying to make itself heard.  I don't really assign too much seriousness to my dreams (I've had recurring dreams of driving off the bridge and drowning) but I have found that my father who passed away talks to me through my dreams.  I've been told to write down my dreams in my journal.  It's something that you can look back on to see if you can figure out if a certain pattern emerges between your waking moment and your dreams.  I haven't really done much of that.  To be honest, it sounds too hocus pocus to me... eeek.

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5 hours ago, TilKingdomCome said:

Awesome! Glad to hear that the church is with the rest of the world on this issue, and thanks for sharing the tweet Latter-Day Marriage :)

So it's morning time now in my country. Before I went to sleep I asked for guidance from God and for a sign to show me what way I'm supposed to live (I always ask for this sign, because as you know I have been conflicted and struggling a bit, but I haven't gotten the sign yet). But then, when I fell asleep, I had a dream and I'm wondering if I'm reading way too much into this but:

I was on top of a tall mountain. I was with a group of other people, including one pregnant woman. A storm happened and it became very dark, practically impossible to see anything. We had to make our way back down the mountain, especially taking care of the woman in need, but it was too dark.

As we descended the mountain, I used a flashlight to try and see my way through the darkness. But then a voice said that I shouldn't use this light - that I'm only using the light because I'm too scared something bad might happen, and instead I should just trust that God will keep us safe and just blindly walk down the mountain (ie without the flashlight) as He'll make sure no harm comes to us. We did so for a while.

But then somehow we were in a furnace (yep, dream transitions are weird), which was basically like the inside of a million cookers but they forgot to turn the cookers off and the place was roasting. I tried for a while to not let the heat get to me, thinking that God would keep us safe like He did on the mountain, but eventually the heat got too much for me, I started screaming "turn off the cooker, turn off the cooker!" and that's when I woke up :P

Immediately after I woke up, I felt bad for letting fear get to me, and knew that I should have just trusted in God and know that, no matter how hot it was, God would make sure that everything would turn out all right. I know it was just a dream but I felt bad by not trusting in Him, and actually had to pray for forgiveness...

Am I reading way too much into this dream? Have any of you ever had similar dreams? Do you think it's something I could tell the missionaries about tomorrow, or would it make me sound lame?! What do you think the pregnant woman might symbolize? I ain't pregnant, nor a woman, and none of the females I know are pregnant either. Everyone I was with on the mountain in the dream were people I've never seen before (ie they weren't people I know in real life)

Dreams can be our subconscious trying to make itself heard.  I don't really assign too much seriousness to my dreams (I've had recurring dreams of driving off the bridge and drowning) but I have found that my father who passed away talks to me through my dreams.  I've been told to write down my dreams in my journal.  It's something that you can look back on to see if you can figure out if a certain pattern emerges between your waking moment and your dreams.  I haven't really done much of that.  To be honest, it sounds too hocus pocus to me... eeek.

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8 hours ago, TilKingdomCome said:

Awesome! Glad to hear that the church is with the rest of the world on this issue, and thanks for sharing the tweet Latter-Day Marriage :)

So it's morning time now in my country. Before I went to sleep I asked for guidance from God and for a sign to show me what way I'm supposed to live (I always ask for this sign, because as you know I have been conflicted and struggling a bit, but I haven't gotten the sign yet). But then, when I fell asleep, I had a dream and I'm wondering if I'm reading way too much into this but:

I was on top of a tall mountain. I was with a group of other people, including one pregnant woman. A storm happened and it became very dark, practically impossible to see anything. We had to make our way back down the mountain, especially taking care of the woman in need, but it was too dark.

As we descended the mountain, I used a flashlight to try and see my way through the darkness. But then a voice said that I shouldn't use this light - that I'm only using the light because I'm too scared something bad might happen, and instead I should just trust that God will keep us safe and just blindly walk down the mountain (ie without the flashlight) as He'll make sure no harm comes to us. We did so for a while.

But then somehow we were in a furnace (yep, dream transitions are weird), which was basically like the inside of a million cookers but they forgot to turn the cookers off and the place was roasting. I tried for a while to not let the heat get to me, thinking that God would keep us safe like He did on the mountain, but eventually the heat got too much for me, I started screaming "turn off the cooker, turn off the cooker!" and that's when I woke up :P

Immediately after I woke up, I felt bad for letting fear get to me, and knew that I should have just trusted in God and know that, no matter how hot it was, God would make sure that everything would turn out all right. I know it was just a dream but I felt bad by not trusting in Him, and actually had to pray for forgiveness...

Am I reading way too much into this dream? Have any of you ever had similar dreams? Do you think it's something I could tell the missionaries about tomorrow, or would it make me sound lame?! What do you think the pregnant woman might symbolize? I ain't pregnant, nor a woman, and none of the females I know are pregnant either. Everyone I was with on the mountain in the dream were people I've never seen before (ie they weren't people I know in real life)

Perhaps others will look to you for leadership in the future and need you to step into the dark in faith rather than rely on only what you can see with the light of reason. Perhaps if you do that it will impact some in the next generation.

Don't feel bad about the cooker thing, Peter and others (and myself included) had to have God tell them something 3 times before they got the message.

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20 hours ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

Perhaps others will look to you for leadership in the future and need you to step into the dark in faith rather than rely on only what you can see with the light of reason. Perhaps if you do that it will impact some in the next generation.

Don't feel bad about the cooker thing, Peter and others (and myself included) had to have God tell them something 3 times before they got the message.

That sounds like a neat interpreation. I'd love to be a leader of something and to help others :3

What was the thing God had to tell Peter thrice before he got the message?

 

UPDATE v.592

Today I had another meeting with the missionaries. It went well, and they were able to answer questions I had in relation to the Orlando shooting (eg "why would God let that happen to them, was it some form of punishment for their homosexuality") - something they taught me was that, in the spirit world (so after we die, but before we go to one of the kingdoms) everyone is taught God's commandments by spirit-world-missionaries (often important people who have died like the prophets and Moses) and that then, in the spirit world, people are given a chance at redemption. Which of course led me to asking "if the spirit world gives us a chance to be taught by missionaries and repent of our sins, why do missionaries teach us stuff in this world/earth-life." It would have been a lot easier if I hadn't been taught about the religion, because then I could continue living the life I want to live (eg gay) and I'd still get into the Celestial Kingdom when I repent in the spirit world. The missionaries tried to offer an explanation as to why people are taught in this life, but honestly their argument wasn't very convincing!

Also, today there were three missionaries. For the last fortnight in my city, there's been four missionaries - the two who teach me and two others. One of the others had been given an emergency transfer, so his companion became a third-wheel missionary for the two who teach me. They didn't say why the missionary got an emergency transfer - would it be rude of me to ask? Me and that missionary were fairly friendly; he was one of the only two missionaries left from the set who had been there when I first started investigating. Is it normal for there to be only three missionaries in a city? Seems like a lot of pressure to put them under. It's like the mission president said "Here's the city, the second largest city in the country - go forth onto the masses and try to convert them all, even though there's only three of you!"

The missionaries have asked me to help them in a lesson with another investigator (something they also asked me to do once before, with another investigator). Why do they do this? I'm not complaining - I loved the last time we did it - but what's the purpose of this? Do they try to get all recent converts to do this? (I'm the only recent convert in my area, so I haven't been taught by any)

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39 minutes ago, TilKingdomCome said:

The missionaries tried to offer an explanation as to why people are taught in this life, but honestly their argument wasn't very convincing!

According to prophets, it's easier to do things in this life than to do them as a spirit (the physical body gives us increased power).  According to prophets, this life is the time to prepare to meet God (whenever possible, clearly).  IMO, your desire is natural, but reflects a worldly view.  As you grow in the Gospel, you will come to realize that its blessings are better than any worldly pleasure, and be grateful for the chance to progress in this life, and continue that progression in the spirit world.  The peace, comfort, and confidence which come from living the Gospel with all your heart are worth more than anything this world has to offer.  2 Nephi 2 and Alma 42 would be good chapters to read regarding the purpose of mortality.

40 minutes ago, TilKingdomCome said:

Is it normal for there to be only three missionaries in a city?

Assuming there really are only three, there would be good reasons for it (total number available, number of members, receptiveness of the people in the area, and, most importantly, revelation).

40 minutes ago, TilKingdomCome said:

The missionaries have asked me to help them in a lesson with another investigator (something they also asked me to do once before, with another investigator). Why do they do this? I'm not complaining - I loved the last time we did it - but what's the purpose of this? Do they try to get all recent converts to do this? (I'm the only recent convert in my area, so I haven't been taught by any)

It helps you (to learn, to feel the Spirit, to strengthen your testimony, etc.).  It helps the investigators ("ah, here's someone else who hasn't been in on this from the beginning, they can give me a perspective similar to my own").  It helps the missionaries (gives them someone to help them, bring a different perspective to the conversation, etc.).  I know it's normal for missionaries to take members with them.  I don't know whether it's normal to take new converts with them, but it seems like a good idea to me.

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26 minutes ago, TilKingdomCome said:

UPDATE v.592

 

Today I had another meeting with the missionaries. It went well, and they were able to answer questions I had in relation to the Orlando shooting (eg "why would God let that happen to them, was it some form of punishment for their homosexuality") - something they taught me was that, in the spirit world (so after we die, but before we go to one of the kingdoms) everyone is taught God's commandments by spirit-world-missionaries (often important people who have died like the prophets and Moses) and that then, in the spirit world, people are given a chance at redemption. Which of course led me to asking "if the spirit world gives us a chance to be taught by missionaries and repent of our sins, why do missionaries teach us stuff in this world/earth-life." It would have been a lot easier if I hadn't been taught about the religion, because then I could continue living the life I want to live (eg gay) and I'd still get into the Celestial Kingdom when I repent in the spirit world. The missionaries tried to offer an explanation as to why people are taught in this life, but honestly their argument wasn't very convincing!

Let set down some scriptures

D&C 130: 22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

And pretty much all of Alma 41 https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/41?lang=eng

Where Alma tries to correct his son's misunderstanding about what happen next.  (Which is many ways like your misunderstanding)

Now we learn that God has a body... (Christ kept his)....  Having a perfected and glorified body is part of being God.  When we come to earth we also get a body.  The purpose of having it is to learn to control it and make our flesh subject to our spirit.  As you have clearly seen this is not easy.

Now we see in Alma 41 that when the resurrection happens we are restored like for like... good for good evil for evil;  So ask yourself what path you think is really easier... Learning how to control and master physical desires when you actually have a body and its feedback to tell you how you are doing?..  Or learning how to control and master physical desires after a life time of imprinting and reinforcing the wrong desires, and then dying and no longer having a physical body to work with?

Many people presume that the removal of desire/temptation is the goal... it is not... it is the overcoming of temptation that we are here to do. 

41 minutes ago, TilKingdomCome said:

Also, today there were three missionaries. For the last fortnight in my city, there's been four missionaries - the two who teach me and two others. One of the others had been given an emergency transfer, so his companion became a third-wheel missionary for the two who teach me. They didn't say why the missionary got an emergency transfer - would it be rude of me to ask? Me and that missionary were fairly friendly; he was one of the only two missionaries left from the set who had been there when I first started investigating. Is it normal for there to be only three missionaries in a city? Seems like a lot of pressure to put them under. It's like the mission president said "Here's the city, the second largest city in the country - go forth onto the masses and try to convert them all, even though there's only three of you!"

 

Only so many young men and young women choose to serve missions...  That number limits how many missionaries the church can put forth.  The church divides that number among the various missions as best it can but it can always use more.  Each Mission President then has to divide his share of missionaries throughout his assigned geographical area.  Doing his best with the guidance of the spirit to put them were they will do the most good...  Chances are each mission president could use more missionaries.

Then each missionary is an individual and have agency.  Some make mistakes and need to be sent home unexpectedly.  Some become victim of medical conditions.  Some have issues with the members/investigators in the area (like member/investigators crushes becoming obsessions) these are just a few reasons (including simply having an odd number of missionaries).  You can ask why but the other missionaries may or may not know why.

 

51 minutes ago, TilKingdomCome said:

The missionaries have asked me to help them in a lesson with another investigator (something they also asked me to do once before, with another investigator). Why do they do this? I'm not complaining - I loved the last time we did it - but what's the purpose of this? Do they try to get all recent converts to do this? (I'm the only recent convert in my area, so I haven't been taught by any)

 

It is pretty common... Getting members involved is always a good thing.  Did you ever have the missionaries bring by members while they were teaching you?  If so it is exactly the same thing that you are doing now.  Also if the missionaries can get member to go with them then they can divide up and cover more ground...  Thus in your current city your three missionaries can become six for a short time if the members will go with them

 

 

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2 hours ago, TilKingdomCome said:

That sounds like a neat interpreation. I'd love to be a leader of something and to help others :3

What was the thing God had to tell Peter thrice before he got the message?

 

UPDATE v.592

Today I had another meeting with the missionaries. It went well, and they were able to answer questions I had in relation to the Orlando shooting (eg "why would God let that happen to them, was it some form of punishment for their homosexuality") - something they taught me was that, in the spirit world (so after we die, but before we go to one of the kingdoms) everyone is taught God's commandments by spirit-world-missionaries (often important people who have died like the prophets and Moses) and that then, in the spirit world, people are given a chance at redemption. Which of course led me to asking "if the spirit world gives us a chance to be taught by missionaries and repent of our sins, why do missionaries teach us stuff in this world/earth-life." It would have been a lot easier if I hadn't been taught about the religion, because then I could continue living the life I want to live (eg gay) and I'd still get into the Celestial Kingdom when I repent in the spirit world. The missionaries tried to offer an explanation as to why people are taught in this life, but honestly their argument wasn't very convincing!

Also, today there were three missionaries. For the last fortnight in my city, there's been four missionaries - the two who teach me and two others. One of the others had been given an emergency transfer, so his companion became a third-wheel missionary for the two who teach me. They didn't say why the missionary got an emergency transfer - would it be rude of me to ask? Me and that missionary were fairly friendly; he was one of the only two missionaries left from the set who had been there when I first started investigating. Is it normal for there to be only three missionaries in a city? Seems like a lot of pressure to put them under. It's like the mission president said "Here's the city, the second largest city in the country - go forth onto the masses and try to convert them all, even though there's only three of you!"

The missionaries have asked me to help them in a lesson with another investigator (something they also asked me to do once before, with another investigator). Why do they do this? I'm not complaining - I loved the last time we did it - but what's the purpose of this? Do they try to get all recent converts to do this? (I'm the only recent convert in my area, so I haven't been taught by any)

See Acts 10 for the thing about Peter.

As for the spirit world, that is not a second chance for anybody, it's a chance for those who didn't get a fair chance in this life.  What constitutes a fair chance is not clearly defined, but personally I think it would be anybody who did not receive a witness from the Holy Ghost that the church was true.

Anyway, it is better to live the gospel and keep the commandments than to sin and repent.  Repenting wipes out the stain of sin, but there are consequences to sinning that repenting doesn't remove.  For example, if a girl breaks the law of chastity and gets pregnant, repenting isn't going to make her un-pregnant.  By accepting the gospel here a person can gain the blessings of living it and better avoid sins, but how can they do that if there is nobody to teach them the gospel and the commandments?  Also, while a person may get a chance to hear the gospel in the spirit world, they will have the same personality, attitudes, etc. so that doesn't mean it's going to be any more attractive to them.  If a person wouldn't feel repentant of something here, they aren't going to feel repentant of it there either, they'll just feel resentful toward God over it same as here.  Lastly, repentance doesn't change the fact that we are judged based on our actions in mortality.  Those in the lowest kingdom will be every bit as cleansed from sin as those in the highest, but those in the highest will have lived according to what light they had and those in the lowest would have lived pushing that light aside and followed their lusts instead.

Emergency transfers can happen for a lot of reasons, sometimes those reasons are personal so probably best not to ask.  Often one Elder's need for an emergency transfer results in a chain reaction of several transfers.  I got moved on short notice once because another Elder had a brother who was dying so he went home to be there in time, he only had a few weeks left of his mission but if he stayed it would have been too late.  Usually the reason for such transfers are not widely known too.

Missionaries are encouraged to involve members as much as possible so it isn't unusual for them to ask you to come along like that.  Being in a 'tri' is a bit of a pain but one upside is that you only need to find one member to come help and then you can split into two pairs and get more done.  It helps investigators to see that there are local members and people like them in the church, not just these missionaries coming from far away.  And it is good for them to build relationship with members who aren't going to get transferred in a few months.  It helps build member's faith too.

 

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2 hours ago, TilKingdomCome said:

That sounds like a neat interpreation. I'd love to be a leader of something and to help others :3

What was the thing God had to tell Peter thrice before he got the message?

 

UPDATE v.592

Today I had another meeting with the missionaries. It went well, and they were able to answer questions I had in relation to the Orlando shooting (eg "why would God let that happen to them, was it some form of punishment for their homosexuality") - something they taught me was that, in the spirit world (so after we die, but before we go to one of the kingdoms) everyone is taught God's commandments by spirit-world-missionaries (often important people who have died like the prophets and Moses) and that then, in the spirit world, people are given a chance at redemption. Which of course led me to asking "if the spirit world gives us a chance to be taught by missionaries and repent of our sins, why do missionaries teach us stuff in this world/earth-life." It would have been a lot easier if I hadn't been taught about the religion, because then I could continue living the life I want to live (eg gay) and I'd still get into the Celestial Kingdom when I repent in the spirit world. The missionaries tried to offer an explanation as to why people are taught in this life, but honestly their argument wasn't very convincing!

Also, today there were three missionaries. For the last fortnight in my city, there's been four missionaries - the two who teach me and two others. One of the others had been given an emergency transfer, so his companion became a third-wheel missionary for the two who teach me. They didn't say why the missionary got an emergency transfer - would it be rude of me to ask? Me and that missionary were fairly friendly; he was one of the only two missionaries left from the set who had been there when I first started investigating. Is it normal for there to be only three missionaries in a city? Seems like a lot of pressure to put them under. It's like the mission president said "Here's the city, the second largest city in the country - go forth onto the masses and try to convert them all, even though there's only three of you!"

The missionaries have asked me to help them in a lesson with another investigator (something they also asked me to do once before, with another investigator). Why do they do this? I'm not complaining - I loved the last time we did it - but what's the purpose of this? Do they try to get all recent converts to do this? (I'm the only recent convert in my area, so I haven't been taught by any)

See Acts 10 for the thing about Peter.

As for the spirit world, that is not a second chance for anybody, it's a chance for those who didn't get a fair chance in this life.  What constitutes a fair chance is not clearly defined, but personally I think it would be anybody who did not receive a witness from the Holy Ghost that the church was true.

Anyway, it is better to live the gospel and keep the commandments than to sin and repent.  Repenting wipes out the stain of sin, but there are consequences to sinning that repenting doesn't remove.  For example, if a girl breaks the law of chastity and gets pregnant, repenting isn't going to make her un-pregnant.  By accepting the gospel here a person can gain the blessings of living it and better avoid sins, but how can they do that if there is nobody to teach them the gospel and the commandments?  Also, while a person may get a chance to hear the gospel in the spirit world, they will have the same personality, attitudes, etc. so that doesn't mean it's going to be any more attractive to them.  If a person wouldn't feel repentant of something here, they aren't going to feel repentant of it there either, they'll just feel resentful toward God over it same as here.  Lastly, repentance doesn't change the fact that we are judged based on our actions in mortality.  Those in the lowest kingdom will be every bit as cleansed from sin as those in the highest, but those in the highest will have lived according to what light they had and those in the lowest would have lived pushing that light aside and followed their lusts instead.

Emergency transfers can happen for a lot of reasons, sometimes those reasons are personal so probably best not to ask.  Often one Elder's need for an emergency transfer results in a chain reaction of several transfers.  I got moved on short notice once because another Elder had a brother who was dying so he went home to be there in time, he only had a few weeks left of his mission but if he stayed it would have been too late.  Usually the reason for such transfers are not widely known too.

Missionaries are encouraged to involve members as much as possible so it isn't unusual for them to ask you to come along like that.  Being in a 'tri' is a bit of a pain but one upside is that you only need to find one member to come help and then you can split into two pairs and get more done.  It helps investigators to see that there are local members and people like them in the church, not just these missionaries coming from far away.  And it is good for them to build relationship with members who aren't going to get transferred in a few months.  It helps build member's faith too.

 

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