TilKingdomCome

Homosexual journey through the Mormon church

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Hi. I was baptised into the LDS Church last Saturday, and I have some questions about some of its teachings.

Homosexuality

I know that the LDS Church views s*x between two members of the same gender a sin, because it's wasting seed etc. But is it ok to be in a completely celibate homosexual relationship?

Cross-dressing

I haven't seen any scripture concerning this, and it's something I'm too afraid to ask the missionaries/the bishop about, but what is the Church's view on cross-dressing? By this, I mean that sometimes I wear jackets and shirts that are intended for women. I don't wear dresses and stuff but I wear jackets, as I'm pretty genderfluid. What is the Church's stance on this? Is it a sin or not? Is it a sin to wear nail-varnish/eyeliner? I'm going to a church movie night tomorrow and I really want to wear my favourite jacket to it, which is traditionally a woman's jacket. What's the likelihood of me being ridiculed/shunned for it?

Baptism Number

Also, wasn't I supposed to have gotten some type of church membership number after my baptism? I haven't gotten that... 

Edited by TilKingdomCome

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27 minutes ago, TilKingdomCome said:

Homosexuality

I know that the LDS Church views s*x between two members of the same gender a sin, because it's wasting seed etc. But is it ok to be in a completely celibate homosexual relationship?

 

We would treat it the same way as we would treat a heterosexual couple who were saying that they were in a completely celibate relationship...  Yeah maybe they are but they are playing with fire and dancing on the each of temptation and it is best to stay away from it 

 

27 minutes ago, TilKingdomCome said:

Cross-dressing

I haven't seen any scripture concerning this, and it's something I'm too afraid to ask the missionaries/the bishop about, but what is the Church's view on cross-dressing? By this, I mean that sometimes I wear jackets and shirts that are intended for women. I don't wear dresses and stuff but I wear jackets, as I'm pretty genderfluid. What is the Church's stance on this? Is it a sin or not? Is it a sin to wear nail-varnish/eyeliner? I'm going to a church movie night tomorrow and I really want to wear my favourite jacket to it, which is traditionally a woman's jacket. What's the likelihood of me being ridiculed/shunned for it?

The likelihood of someone ridiculed/shunned for it is the likelihood of someone being weak and judgemental toward others in spite of what the church teaches...  Given that the church is a hospitals for sinner and not a shrine for saints... well I think you can judge your own odds on that happening.

 

28 minutes ago, TilKingdomCome said:

Baptism Number

Also, wasn't I supposed to have gotten some type of church membership number after my baptism? I haven't gotten that... 

A number was assigned/created as part of your membership records so once that is complete you have one.  Its yours but not really given to you unless you ask for it. (It will also be on the paperwork you get yearly as a part of tithing settlement).  You need your number to create an LDS account to access the various web and internet stuff the church puts out.  The ward clerk or a member of the bishopric can get you your number if you ask for it.

 

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Hi TKC,

You are in for a very interesting ride.  You're one of the vanguard here - a groundbreaker.  There just aren't that many folks in your situation, trying to make your way in the kingdom of God.  I don't think we can advise you, because basically none of us know anyone like you, and have no experiences to draw from.  Or, to put it another way, although we all have folks with same sex attraction/crossdressing/etc leanings or tendencies, it's rare to have any dialog about it on either side.  

One thing I can guarantee you - you will encounter hurtful idiots in our church (if you haven't already).  Please forgive them - they're scared.  Ignorance has always made people scared.  

Please come here often and tell us how things are going.  For many of us, it will be a rare slice of life glimpse into things we don't know much about.  Here are some links:

https://inpursuitofmuchness.wordpress.com/2016/05/04/mormon-gay-and-okay/
http://mormonsandgays.org/
http://www.joshweed.com/p/faq-new.html
http://mitchmayne.com/

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40 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

We would treat it the same way as we would treat a heterosexual couple who were saying that they were in a completely celibate relationship...  Yeah maybe they are but they are playing with fire and dancing on the each of temptation and it is best to stay away from it 

But, as long as it IS celibate and we don't give into temptations, is it okay or is it still considered a sin?

 

A number was assigned/created as part of your membership records so once that is complete you have one.  Its yours but not really given to you unless you ask for it. (It will also be on the paperwork you get yearly as a part of tithing settlement).  You need your number to create an LDS account to access the various web and internet stuff the church puts out.  The ward clerk or a member of the bishopric can get you your number if you ask for it.

Thanks. I'm hopefully going to receive the Aaronic/Preparatory Priesthood on Sunday, so I'll ask my ward president about the number then. I'd just like to see the internet things the church has which we need the numbers to access

 

13 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Hi TKC,

You are in for a very interesting ride.  You're one of the vanguard here - a groundbreaker.  There just aren't that many folks in your situation, trying to make your way in the kingdom of God.  I don't think we can advise you, because basically none of us know anyone like you, and have no experiences to draw from.  Or, to put it another way, although we all have folks with same sex attraction/crossdressing/etc leanings or tendencies, it's rare to have any dialog about it on either side.  

Thanks NT. Yeah, I see what you mean when you say "it's rare to have any dialog about it" - I had to confess to my homosexual past, when the missionaries were preparing me for my baptism interview, and it's obvious that homosexuality is something that members of the church aren't exactly comfortable discussing. And I never mentioned crossdressing to any of them, although I've sent some emails back-and-forth to one of the missionaries this week (as I'm not using my phone atm), and my email profile picture has me wearing a girl's top and eyeliner. If he saw that profile pic, which he probably did, he didn't get angry about it - I'm not sure whether I should take that as a good sign or a bad sign.

 

One thing I can guarantee you - you will encounter hurtful idiots in our church (if you haven't already).  Please forgive them - they're scared.  Ignorance has always made people scared.  

That's what I'm afraid of. Everyone in the Church seems so nice - which, you know, is part of their job and how they help new converts settle into the Church. But I'm afraid that, if they see me wearing a girl's jacket, something that ignorance might tell them is wrong, some of them might start being nasty about it.

13 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Please come here often and tell us how things are going.  For many of us, it will be a rare slice of life glimpse into things we don't know much about.  Here are some links:

https://inpursuitofmuchness.wordpress.com/2016/05/04/mormon-gay-and-okay/
http://mormonsandgays.org/
http://www.joshweed.com/p/faq-new.html
http://mitchmayne.com/

Thanks. I'll check those links (I've already read the JoshWeed one, because of another question I had a few weeks ago. And I'll let you know how things are going. As I said, I'm probably going to wear my girl's jacket to the church movie night tomorrow, and if I can convince him, I'm going to get one of my ex-boyfriends to come with me as a friend (we're no longer dating, but we're still friends), so hopefully the Church will be okay with that :D

 

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30 minutes ago, TilKingdomCome said:

 

But, as long as it IS celibate and we don't give into temptations, is it okay or is it still considered a sin?

 

 

That requires access to details and information that people in this forum simply do not have...  You will need to talk to your bishop

For example a heterosexual couple could be just friends...  But if they were living together, even if they totally celibate, there would still be issues with the whole "Avoiding the appearance of evil" and the "Avoiding temptations" commands.  I see no reason why that standard would not also apply to homosexual couples, but it is relatively new ground

Edited by estradling75

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2 hours ago, TilKingdomCome said:

Hi. I was baptised into the LDS Church last Saturday, and I have some questions about some of its teachings.

Homosexuality

I know that the LDS Church views s*x between two members of the same gender a sin, because it's wasting seed etc. But is it ok to be in a completely celibate homosexual relationship?

Cross-dressing

I haven't seen any scripture concerning this, and it's something I'm too afraid to ask the missionaries/the bishop about, but what is the Church's view on cross-dressing? By this, I mean that sometimes I wear jackets and shirts that are intended for women. I don't wear dresses and stuff but I wear jackets, as I'm pretty genderfluid. What is the Church's stance on this? Is it a sin or not? Is it a sin to wear nail-varnish/eyeliner? I'm going to a church movie night tomorrow and I really want to wear my favourite jacket to it, which is traditionally a woman's jacket. What's the likelihood of me being ridiculed/shunned for it?

Baptism Number

Also, wasn't I supposed to have gotten some type of church membership number after my baptism? I haven't gotten that... 

'wasting seed' isn't why homosexual sex isn't wrong, it is wrong because our bodies are temples, our sexuality and the power to create life is the most sacred and god-like attribute about us, and homosexual behaviour is a desecration of that.  Homosexual behaviour is not just gay sex either.  A gay man wishing to be in full fellowship in the church would need to keep all his relationship with other men as platonic friendships.  A non-sexual romance is not OK, and also pretty unlikely to remain non-sexual in the long run.

Cross dressing is about presenting yourself as a member of the opposite gender, or pretending to be such.  My wife often will wear men's pants or shirts simply because they sometimes fit her better but nobody is going to mistake her for a guy and that isn't cross dressing.  There is a verse in Leviticus that forbids cross dressing, and it is isn't considered to be up to the standards the church upholds.  The only policy I know of about it is that if a Ward has a costume party, you can't come dressed as a member of the opposite sex.  Context and intention are important.  How members would react to a guy wearing makeup will likely vary.  I would say ask yourself what your reasons are for it, and if you feel after prayer that it is in keeping with following Christ and being an example of a believer.

As for your membership number, ask your ward clerk for it.  I'm not sure how soon after a baptism a number is given but it isn't like you get a membership card.  It's mainly for the church's use, not something you'll need very often.

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28 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

'wasting seed' isn't why homosexual sex isn't wrong, it is wrong because our bodies are temples, our sexuality and the power to create life is the most sacred and god-like attribute about us, and homosexual behaviour is a desecration of that.  Homosexual behaviour is not just gay sex either.  A gay man wishing to be in full fellowship in the church would need to keep all his relationship with other men as platonic friendships.  A non-sexual romance is not OK, and also pretty unlikely to remain non-sexual in the long run.

How is homosexual behaviour a desecration of that? If we're not wasting seed, we're not stopping our ability to create kids. I'll still have plenty of seed for whenever I decide to settle down with a woman, but in the mean-time what's wrong with having a romance with a guy?

Also, do you know what asexual means? It's someone who feels no desire to have sex with someone. I'm very much asexual, so there's absolutely no reason why my romance couldn't remain non-sexual in the long run.

Cross dressing is about presenting yourself as a member of the opposite gender, or pretending to be such.  My wife often will wear men's pants or shirts simply because they sometimes fit her better but nobody is going to mistake her for a guy and that isn't cross dressing.  There is a verse in Leviticus that forbids cross dressing, and it is isn't considered to be up to the standards the church upholds.  The only policy I know of about it is that if a Ward has a costume party, you can't come dressed as a member of the opposite sex.  Context and intention are important.  How members would react to a guy wearing makeup will likely vary.  I would say ask yourself what your reasons are for it, and if you feel after prayer that it is in keeping with following Christ and being an example of a believer.

"What are you reasons for it?" Pretty much the same reason for your wife wearing men's pants and shirts - women's jackets and stuff simply fit my body better and are a lot more comfortable. I'm not going to go around pretending to be the opposite gender. I just feel more comfortable in women's clothes cause men's clothes tend to be so baggy and horrible. Plenty of creative men wear make-up (think of the late, great David Bowie) yet no one ever mistakes them for being female.

As for your membership number, ask your ward clerk for it.  I'm not sure how soon after a baptism a number is given but it isn't like you get a membership card.  It's mainly for the church's use, not something you'll need very often.

I just need it so that I can access the Church's internet stuff.

 

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So, are you aware of this?  Mormons aren't down with the new notion of being 'genderfluid'.  

https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation?lang=eng

 

Quote

 

ALL HUMAN BEINGS—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

 

Edited by NeuroTypical

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22 minutes ago, TilKingdomCome said:
22 minutes ago, TilKingdomCome said:

. I'm very much asexual, so there's absolutely no reason why my romance couldn't remain non-sexual in the long run

 

What are the odds that your partner would also be asexual? I'm guessing pretty slim. 

Edited by LiterateParakeet

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2 hours ago, TilKingdomCome said:

. I'd just like to see the internet things the church has which we need the numbers to access

The only thing you need your membership number to access is your ward directory (phone number of people in your ward). With it you can also highlight articles and make notes and save them. You won't have access to any information that's not available to everyone though.

Edited by LiterateParakeet

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24 minutes ago, TilKingdomCome said:

Also, do you know what asexual means? It's someone who feels no desire to have sex with someone. I'm very much asexual, so there's absolutely no reason why my romance couldn't remain non-sexual in the long run.

To repeat LiterateParakeet what are the odds that your partner would also be asexual?

Plus the fact that you are now an example of a Faithful follower of God...  The example you set is going to be the example everyone that knows you is going to see...Baptism was just the start...  How you live is going to be noticed both within and without the church.

 

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My 2 cents:

Homosexual Romance:

The answer to this is not about sex.  The answer to this is about Marriage as the foundation of Eternal Families.
We are commanded to LOVE others as we love ourselves.  Many people - including Mormons - differentiate Love into several types... family, friendship, romantic, etc.  This just muddies the waters.  There is only ONE TYPE of Love.  And that is Christlike Love.  Christlike LOVE is that desire to bring someone with you on your journey closer to Christ.  If it brings you and that someone farther from Christ, then it is not Love.  Therefore, the love you have for your mother is the same love you have for your friend and the same love you have for children and the same love you have for your spouse and the same love you have for self.  What makes Marriage different is the COVENANT under which that Love is expressed.  This Covenant is the foundation for ETERNAL families.  Remember, marriage is an eternal covenant and it goes beyond mortality.  This Covenant comes with specific promises that ADDS certain obligations to the Love one has for family members.  The Covenant obligates the husband to preside over the family with his wife.  The Covenant obligates them to provide a foundation for an eternal family.  The Covenant obligates them to raise up children in the gospel (either in mortality or in eternity, if mortal children is not possible).  This Covenant obligates the children to honor their parents, etc.  This is the reason why Love takes on a different expression between spouses and between parents and children.  But even with these added promises, it does not change what it means to LOVE - it still means bringing someone with you closer to Christ (love others as yourself)... this just makes it more specific - raise up seed to bring eternal spirits from pre-mortality through the plan of salvation back to God.

Your use of the word "Relationship" indicates that you're talking about the romantic union that is the pre-cursor to the Marital Covenant.  This can be considered a mockery of the Marital Covenant - it's like "playing house"... living like you're under the Covenant without the Covenant itself.  Make sense?

BUT, that said... there is nothing stopping you from LOVE.  You can love anyone - bring them with you closer to Christ.  As a matter of fact, it is a commandment.  If you want to focus that love on a specific person, that's fine too - bring him with you closer to Christ.  But you need to make sure that you understand what LOVE means so that you are grounded on Christ-like Love and not the false love of "playing house" that is promoted by many a Hollywood movie or Billboard Song.  The best of friends can be rooted in such love that one would lay down their life for the friend - to steer them from temptation, to guide them to the light of Christ.  This is the kind of relationship you would want even outside of your spouse.  When you find your eternal companion, then your relationship would be different because then you'll have the marital covenant that adds the responsibility of being the foundation for an eternal family (even if you don't have children in mortality).

Make sense?

 

Cross-dressing:

This is all about intent.  If your intent is to "playing woman" (related to "playing house" above), then it is not good.  If your intent is comfort, then it is fine.  I sometimes wear pants to Church because my pantsuit is my "best" that day.  I also like swiping my son's hoodie.  It is fine.

Eyeliner and all that... same thing - it's all up to your intent.  If you're trying to "play woman" it's not good.  If you use it to highlight your manly features it's fine.  David Bowie, Ozzy Osborne, KISS, use make-up not to "play woman" but to inject a certain male style.  I love KPop and a lot of my American friends think the men are gender fluid... they're not.  It's the manly style of South Korea - eyeliner to make their almond eyes look more western, foundation to hide their pasty skin, etc.  It just so happens that South Korean males (and Asian males in general) are not your big, buff, muscular manly men... they're built slender like women.  So they tend to look feminine to Americans.

 

Baptism Number:

Yes, you need it to create an account on lds.org.  It also helps to put it on your tithing slip.  Just go ask your ward clerk or any of the bishopric for that information.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited by anatess2

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4 hours ago, TilKingdomCome said:

because it's wasting seed etc.

This isn't why.

4 hours ago, TilKingdomCome said:

But is it ok to be in a completely celibate homosexual relationship? 

There's no such thing. You're asking if one can be engaged in an activity without engaging in the activity. If the relationship isn't "sexual" then it isn't homo-"sexual".

Per LDS standards, can two buddies of the same gender live together without sex? Yes. It's called roommates.

Edited by The Folk Prophet

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2 hours ago, TilKingdomCome said:

 

This concept of 'wasting seed' is a red herring. Men don't run out of seed, they continually produce it from puberty onwards, even to the point where if they are not sexually active the body will have to flush out the old stuff to make room for the new via a wet dream.  Nobody is going to run out unless there is some kind of medical issue.  They are going to produce millions upon millions of sperm over their life and only a very few will ever fertilize an egg.

The thing is the body itself is sacred, sexual intimacy is a sacred thing as well.  Some would even consider intercourse between a husband and wife a sacrament and and a renewal of the marriage covenant.  Homosexual relations are an abuse of the body and its most sacred aspects.  It is immoral.  It would be wrong to use the baptismal font for a nude hot tub party no matter how much fun you think that may be. Likewise homosexual behaviour is wrong no matter how much a person my find it enjoyable.  It's taking something intended for a specific sacred purpose and abusing it.  Heterosexual sex that is not between a married couple would also be an example of abusing the sanctity of our sexuality.

If you truly are asexual, you don't need a romantic relationship.  No matter what a somebody's personal feelings are, it doesn't alter what is moral or immoral in God's eyes.  Romantic displays (romantic kissing etc.) with somebody of the same gender are not acceptable at church functions.  It's a lesser form of abuse, but it is still contrary to the standards of the church.

I know this may be hard, but when you decided to join the church it was because you felt the truth of it.  Trust that.  Live the standards of the church and learn from experience the value of them.  It is probably the only way you will be able to learn that it is the right thing to do, and God will bless you for it.

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

Yes, you need it to create an account on lds.org.  It also helps to put it on your tithing slip.  Just go ask your ward clerk or any of the bishopric for that information.

 

Hope this helps.

You only really need to put the membership number on the tithing slip if you are visiting a ward other than your home ward and making a donation while there (or if there is someone else in the ward with the same name as you).

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39 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

t would be wrong to use the baptismal font for a nude hot tub party no matter how much fun you think that may be.

Yeah, because it's not just hot water, and I've never seen a baptismal font equipped with air jets.

Uhhh...except for that one "modern praise band" type church.  Then again, that was far from the weirdest part of their church.

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Till,

Congratulations on your baptism.  I'm going to offer the same caution I offered earlier, be very careful in your decisions or you will very likely find yourself walking out of the Church.  The Gospel is awesome, it's wonderful, but baptism and hearing it for the first time is a spiritual high.  What happens in six months from now, a year from now.  As a newly baptized member of the Church you have made some sacred covenants with God, to be a discipline of Christ. He has promised that as you obey his commandments he will provide many blessings for you.

One of those commandments is unequivocally that homosexual behavior in all forms is unacceptable.  Personally, I find it a little disheartening that some members of the church will have disagreements over things like whether "vaping" is acceptable or whether drinking caffeine is against the Word of Wisdom and yet they have a very hard time stating unequivocally that homosexual behavior in all forms is unacceptable. 

I know this is very hard for you, homosexual behavior does not just encompass sex. Homosexual behavior also encompasses the realm of homosexual relationships. It is absolutely unacceptable for two men to be in a non-sexual but romantic relationship.  That is part of living the Gospel. Just like it is unacceptable to attend Church wearing a mini-skirt, or a t-shirt saying Heroin is good, or vaping in the Church, it is unacceptable to demonstrate homosexual behavior inside the Church building. It is unacceptable to be a member in good standing and be in a homosexual relationship.

Where exactly does a non-sexual but romantic homosexual relationship lead, you hold hands and snuggle for the next 60 years of your life? I also don't think you completely understand asexual, it means "a person with no sexual feelings or desires".  So you are telling me that you don't get aroused . . .like ever .  .? If that is the case, why do you want to be in a romantic relationship with a man? The whole point of why God gave men and women desires is to have a family and that can only occur between man and woman. You want children, but yet you don't want take the necessary actions to have children (i.e. sexual feelings for a woman). If the reason is because you want to be loved so you can feel whole/complete, no one can do that for you.  Only you can make yourself whole

I will sing it loud and clear, homosexual behavior in all forms is unacceptable behavior for a member in good standing of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints, no ifs ands or buts. It's not just about sex.  Please note I have said behavior not feelings.

As a sidenote, I don't know about wearing women's jackets but as an FYI transgender individuals are not eligible to attend the temple and become endowed.  The Church and the Gospel are firm that God gave men and women distinct roles and responsibilities, and each gender should rejoice and enjoy their roles and responsibilities-they are distinct and it is necessary for them to work together to carry out God's plan.

Edited by yjacket

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29 minutes ago, yjacket said:

As a sidenote, I don't know about wearing women's jackets but as an FYI transgender individuals are not eligible to attend the temple and become endowed.  The Church and the Gospel are firm that God gave men and women distinct roles and responsibilities, and each gender should rejoice and enjoy their roles and responsibilities-they are distinct and it is necessary for them to work together to carry out God's plan.

To clarify, those who voluntarily undergo gender reassignment surgery are barred for life from getting a temple recommend.

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11 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Please come here often and tell us how things are going.  
http://mormonsandgays.org/

I agree with NT, please let us know how things are going @TilKingdomCome. Thanks NT for sharing the links too, I have just about finished this site, minus the videos. This caught my attention:

"There is no change in the Church's position of what is morally right. But what is changing - and what needs to change - is to help Church members respond sensitively and thoughtfully when they encounter same-sex attraction in their own families, among other Church members, or elsewhere" 

27 minutes ago, yjacket said:

I will sing it loud and clear, homosexual behavior in all forms is unacceptable behavior for a member in good standing of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints, no ifs ands or buts. It's not just about sex.  Please note I have said behavior not feelings.

I agree with Yjacket.
Same link above states, "Same-sex attraction itself is not a sin, but yielding to it is." Also later it states, "Reconciling same-sex attraction with a religious life can present an especially trying dilemma. Anyone who lives in both worlds can attest to its difficulty. But with faith, love and perspective it can be done".

Elder Holland gave great talk: Helping those who struggle with same-sex attraction
""The First Presidency has stated, "There is a distinction between immoral thoughts and feelings and participating in either immoral heterosexual or any homosexual behavior." If you do not act on temptations, you have not transgressed.""
 

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UPDATE ^_^

On Wednesday, I had the movie night with the church. I wore the jacket, and they didn't say anything about it, which is a good sign.

Today, I texted the Elders to say that I had a date with my bf (I had to explain why I wasn't going to be able to attend the church volleyball) I told them that it was a celibate relationship, so I'm not sinning. They said "It isn't about celibacy, it's about actions"

 

What does that mean? They're saying I should tell the branch president tomorrow (before I get the Preparatory Priesthood on Sunday) but it's honestly something I don't want to discuss with him. Basically, me and my bf were together (in a slightly intimate way) before I began investigating the church, but ever since learning about the Church and how God doesn't want two guys to have sex, me and my bf have agreed to remain celibate. So, I'm not sinning, am I? And no, we're not "playing house" -as someone said in an earlier comment-we're just two guys really enjoying one another's company.

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17 minutes ago, TilKingdomCome said:

What does that mean? They're saying I should tell the branch president tomorrow (before I get the Preparatory Priesthood on Sunday) but it's honestly something I don't want to discuss with him. Basically, me and my bf were together (in a slightly intimate way) before I began investigating the church, but ever since learning about the Church and how God doesn't want two guys to have sex, me and my bf have agreed to remain celibate. So, I'm not sinning, am I? And no, we're not "playing house" -as someone said in an earlier comment-we're just two guys really enjoying one another's company.

A few questions for you to consider:

  • Why do you not want to talk with the branch president about your relationship with your "bf"?
  • If you're certain you're not sinning, why are you not also certain that there won't be a problem talking to the branch president about it?
  • Is he a "boyfriend" if there's nothing romantic in the relationship, or just a friend?
  • What covenants will you be making by receiving the Aaronic Priesthood?  Are you prepared in your heart to keep those covenants?  (IMO, it's worse to make a covenant you can't keep than to decline or put off making the covenant until you can.  I'm not saying one way or the other whether you can, just saying I think this is something you should consider.)

FWIW.

PS: It's more than "God doesn't want two guys to have sex" - God wants his children to marry a member of the opposite sex, remain faithful, and raise children in the covenant.  Not everyone can do that, but I think it's important to be clear that this is the eternal ideal - man and woman sealed for eternity to each other and their children.

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8 minutes ago, zil said:

A few questions for you to consider:

  • Why do you not want to talk with the branch president about your relationship with your "bf"?
  • I don't want to talk to the branch president about it because (a) I'm not entirely too sure how I feel about the relationship. My boyfriend said he was okay with no sex, but today when I stood up to leave his place, he groped me and tried to get me to kiss him so I'm not sure if he really is okay with the no sex or not. Until I know for sure, I'm afraid I might end up saying the wrong thing to the president (b) the only reason I'm still with my boyfriend, despite the fact that we've had arguments over my religion and despite the fact that he groped me today, is because I have a massive crush on one of the missionaries, and I'm trying to distract myself from that by focusing my affections onto someone else. That's sort of like committing adultery (Matthew 5:28 "Whoever looks at a man to lust for him has already committed adultery"), I'm not being a hundred percent faithful or honest to my bf and I have allowed myself to continue this crush. I don't want the branch president to know I feel this way, in case he tells the Elder or in case that Elder gets transferred because of it
  • If you're certain you're not sinning, why are you not also certain that there won't be a problem talking to the branch president about it?
  • Because I'm sinning through the aforementioned crush, and because I just don't want to tell a relative stranger about my personal life. I've already had to tell the Elders about my homosexuality, when I was prepping for baptism. And yesterday they asked me to join in their lesson as they taught a new investigator. The lesson was the Law of Chastisy, and the moment she mentioned homosexuality and asked "are gay people allowed join this Church?" (she's not gay but her friends are) the Elders immediately looked at me. It's something they've already labelled me with, and I don't want that awkwardness with yet another Church member.
  • Is he a "boyfriend" if there's nothing romantic in the relationship, or just a friend?
  • Good question. In some regards, it's just a matter of phrasing. But also, we do stuff that we wouldn't do if we were "just friends" - sleeping in the same bed (sometimes, we don't live together), holding hands, going on dates, dancing ... stuff guys wouldn't do with their just-friends.
  • What covenants will you be making by receiving the Aaronic Priesthood?  Are you prepared in your heart to keep those covenants?  (IMO, it's worse to make a covenant you can't keep than to decline or put off making the covenant until you can.  I'm not saying one way or the other whether you can, just saying I think this is something you should consider.)
  • Maybe I've learnt wrong but I thought the only convenants we make at the Priesthood are (a) to follow Jesus' example and keep His commandments and (b) to fulfill our callings, instead of neglecting our responsibilities. Are there any more covenants I should know about? And yes, I see your point - I shouldn't make a promise, to the Church and-most importantly-to God and Jesus, if I'm not 100% keeping that promise (ie not following his Commandments about lust and homosexuality)

FWIW.

PS: It's more than "God doesn't want two guys to have sex" - God wants his children to marry a member of the opposite sex, remain faithful, and raise children in the covenant.  Not everyone can do that, but I think it's important to be clear that this is the eternal ideal - man and woman sealed for eternity to each other and their children

I realise that's His wish, but until such a time when I find a female companion, what's wrong with having a male companion? This is a question I've asked here before, and I'm still not entirely convinced by the answer.

There's another gay guy who goes to Church. He's an investigator, and he's been investigating it since October (long before I started) He's always at the sports stuff and trips church members do, but he hasn't been baptised yet because he doesn't agree with the Church's stance on homosexuality. I'm beginning to think that maybe I was a bit too willing to stick to the baptism date the Elders had set for me. It's certainly brought me blessings in my life (eg it's brought me and my family closer, because they like the positive influence the Church is having on my life) but the homosexuality thing is still something I'm struggling with.

 

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Sorry, @TilKingdomCome, I just meant they were questions for you to consider yourself - you didn't have to reply here (sorry I didn't make that clear).

That said, part of the branch president's calling is to help you with these things.  It's my understanding that he cannot tell anyone else unless you give him permission (or unless it's necessary for their protection, or something, which doesn't seem the case here - nowhere near).  Also, while in theory he could suggest to the mission president that the Elder be transferred, it's totally up to the mission president.

I think you should be open with your branch president.  Some of the things you describe doing with your boyfriend seem worrisome (at best) to me, but I'm not the one who counts, the branch president is.  He should be able to help you understand what's OK, what's not OK, and where to look (scriptures, etc.) for things that will help you understand why.

As for the covenant - keeping Christ's commandments includes all of them.

Anywho, again, only meant to give you things to think on...

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Okay. Thank you, and you gave me a lot to think on. I find it handier to actually write out my thoughts, and see what people's advice on them is - sorry if the last comment was way too much detail. Do you think I should tell the branch president about the crush on the Elder? Like, how likely is it that he'll suggest the Elder's transfer? And, if he does suggest a transfer, do they have to tell the Elder the reason for it? I don't want him to remember me as "that guy who caused me to have to move cities again", especially when he actually told me that he hates moving around, and would much prefer to stay in the one area for as long as possible.

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3 minutes ago, TilKingdomCome said:

Okay. Thank you, and you gave me a lot to think on. I find it handier to actually write out my thoughts, and see what people's advice on them is - sorry if the last comment was way too much detail. Do you think I should tell the branch president about the crush on the Elder? Like, how likely is it that he'll suggest the Elder's transfer? And, if he does suggest a transfer, do they have to tell the Elder the reason for it? I don't want him to remember me as "that guy who caused me to have to move cities again", especially when he actually told me that he hates moving around, and would much prefer to stay in the one area for as long as possible.

No worries - I just didn't want you to think I was digging into things that were none of _my_ business. :)

IMO, feelings (like a crush) are not sinful and I don't think you need to tell anyone about them (unless you feel it will help you).  I have no idea how likely it may or may not be for him to suggest the Elder be transferred (someone who has been in a priesthood leadership position would know better - I haven't led anything since the Laurels class (Young Women, 16-17 year olds - and that was many many years ago for me)).  I highly doubt they would tell the Elder anything - they'd just transfer him.  Since transfers aren't based on a calendar (last I knew), they wouldn't need to give him a reason.

I think your relationship with your boyfriend, and your concerns about homosexuality are things which your branch president should know, and with which he should be able to help you as you decide what to do.

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