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35 minutes ago, NightSG said:

even PCP can't make up for having the support structure disassembled.  They may not feel a fully dislocated knee or crushed ankle, but they won't be able to stand on it either.

Not always true.

PCP (among other drugs) scares me as much as Islam: totally unpredictable, but tending toward destruction without caring much about the attacker's own condition. I've seen video of a drug-addled assailant continue the fight with both legs broken and one arm shattered. The brain just don't git the message that "you can't stand on it".

Lehi

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5 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

Not always true.

PCP (among other drugs) scares me as much as Islam: totally unpredictable, but tending toward destruction without caring much about the attacker's own condition. I've seen video of a drug-addled assailant continue the fight with both legs broken and one arm shattered. The brain just don't git the message that "you can't stand on it".

Lehi

 LeSellers and I disagree about Islam, alcohol and a host of other things but he's right about PCP. He's seen a video and I've seen what PCP can do in real life. I've never taken it but I know people who have.  

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Yeah, I've seen videos of people on PCP get tazed, pepper sprayed, beaten with nightsticks in places that should make them fall down.  It's like they don't even notice that stuff is being done to them.

If there's a quicker way to quickly get rid of agency and turn control of your body over to darkness, I don't know what it would be.

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1 hour ago, NightSG said:

Of course, there's also arnis, which pretty much boils down to "hit him with a stick, then hit him with another stick, then repeat, a lot, fast."

Arnis is a lot more than that.  It's a weapons-based system where the weapons is anything within your reach... your hands, short sticks, long poles, daggers... the concept is when you find yourself needing to fight, you're not always going to have the luxury of carrying a pair of nunchucks in your backpocket...

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40 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

PCP (among other drugs) scares me as much as Islam: totally unpredictable, but tending toward destruction without caring much about the attacker's own condition. I've seen video of a drug-addled assailant continue the fight with both legs broken and one arm shattered. The brain just don't git the message that "you can't stand on it".

In the case of a long bone break, the muscles can sometimes sort of hold things together.  Hence the number of football players who have finished a game with a broken leg.  If you dislocate the knee fully, though, there's nothing left to hold the leg up regardless of muscle strength.  Bend it far enough backward or sideways that the femur is no longer sitting on top of the tibia, and the ACL, patellar tendon and/or PCL is completely detached or severed, and they will go down.  They may still crawl surprisingly well, but the lower leg is uncontrollable dead weight.  Same goes for the elbow to an extent; it's a simpler joint, and though you can do a lot of painful damage pretty easily, if you truly want to remove it from the fight, you need to go all the way so the connective tissue is no longer connected somewhere.  No drug overrules gravity and engineering; cut enough strings and the puppet doesn't work anymore.

Sure, it's cruel, disgusting and against the nature of any mentally sound person but so is whatever they intend to do to you.  (Or someone you care about.)  You just have to put those feelings aside and do what is necessary to stop their harm.

 

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3 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Arnis is a lot more than that.  It's a weapons-based system where the weapons is anything within your reach... your hands, short sticks, long poles, daggers... the concept is when you find yourself needing to fight, you're not always going to have the luxury of carrying a pair of nunchucks in your backpocket...

A pole is a long stick.  A dagger is a sharp stick.  A sword is a long sharp stick. An axe is a stick with a heavy sharp end.  Hands are really really short sticks.

When used to bop somebody on the noggin, everything is a stick of some sort.  Some have special strengths, like poking or hacking through people, but they're all still sticks.

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2 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Sure, it's cruel, disgusting and against the nature of any mentally sound person but so is whatever they intend to do to you.  (Or someone you care about.)  You just have to put those feelings aside and do what is necessary to stop their harm.

One of the things that most people forget is the many (most) potential assailants have a lot of experience fighting, whether with firearms or other weapons or just bare-fisted. This gives the attacker a huge advantage over the rest of us: they don't have "training", they have "experience".

Further, they do not have a conscience. They will hurt you simply because you stand in the way of their getting whatever it is they want (and sometimes what they want is to hurt you for the joy of it). Your pain is nothing to them, nothing at best.

Your last sentence is dead on: You must, indeed put your humanity aside, 'cuz they gots none, and they will hurt you.

Lehi

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2 minutes ago, NightSG said:

A pole is a long stick.  A dagger is a sharp stick.  A sword is a long sharp stick. An axe is a stick with a heavy sharp end.  Hands are really really short sticks.

When used to bop somebody on the noggin, everything is a stick of some sort.  Some have special strengths, like poking or hacking through people, but they're all still sticks.

Hah hah... okay, if you put it that way...

Except, how you hit with a short stick is completely different from how you hit with a sharp stick... one you can repeat a lot, fast... the other you don't.

When a mass of Filipinos decide to be terrorists in America, the Democrats are going to ban sticks.

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4 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Sweep the leg Karate boy. :D

Leg sweeps expose your own legs too much.  If you're in that close, use a balance break to get him on the ground and stomp on his knee as hard as you can.  Ideally more than once.  Fighting for your safety is no time for half measures; you're already being nice enough to not stomp on his neck.

4 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

Your last sentence is dead on: You must, indeed put your humanity aside, 'cuz they gots none, and they will hurt you.

Been reading LtC Grossmann's books again?  Good starting point for anyone who needs to be able to survive a violent encounter...which, really, is everybody.

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8 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Except, how you hit with a short stick is completely different from how you hit with a sharp stick... one you can repeat a lot, fast... the other you don't.

Both methods can work with both weapons, but sometimes lose the advantage of the weapon's specific ability.  A strong, well aimed slash with a hanbo will still do an insane amount of damage, but not as much as a wakizashi, while jabbing someone with the pointy wakizashi (though very painful and messy) may not be as immediately effective as the same strike with the hanbo's blunt tip if you're not attacking the heart or a critical nerve.

And it's a heck of a lot easier to get a cane past security than a frickin' sword.

Edited by NightSG

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43 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Both methods can work with both weapons, but sometimes lose the advantage of the weapon's specific ability.  A strong, well aimed slash with a hanbo will still do an insane amount of damage, but not as much as a wakizashi, while jabbing someone with the pointy wakizashi (though very painful and messy) may not be as immediately effective as the same strike with the hanbo's blunt tip if you're not attacking the heart or a critical nerve.

And it's a heck of a lot easier to get a cane past security than a frickin' sword.

I don't know... having a cane sticking out of your backpocket at the airport might raise some eyebrows.  In a gym bag, maybe, maybe not.  But yeah, at least it won't set off the alarm and I don't think it's illegal to carry one through airport security (never tried this though).

The thing with arnis is it's been modernized to indistinction these days.  So they teach empty-hand... and do stupid moves like "hand as a stick" or "hand as a knife" and the super scary sounding "limb destruction" stupid moves... or have this new age version of wing chun and jujitsu or some such.  It completely removes the practicality that defines Filipino Martial Arts.  The empty-hand, the stick, the knife are 3 distinct skills that have 3 distinct movements.  You get good at all 3 to fit your specific frame.  No need to stick to a set style - it's not about the style, it's about the fighter.  Why these 3?  Because... you can make a stick out of many things - the leg of a chair, a section of pipe, etc.  And the knife is a common Filipino tool that can be found most anywhere.  And unless you're an amputee you've got hands and feet with you.  So that you won't have to worry about bringing weapons with you through security.  Hanbos and Wakizashis are really just show pieces.  Makes the training room look good.  Real FMA go to the woods and snap off some bamboo or tree limbs and go to town hitting each other with it.

Edited by anatess2

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I'm choking to say this, but *gasp* the TSA's website is actually kind of helpful.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/prohibited-items

Searching for "Cane":

Some mobility aids may require specialized screening. To expedite your travel, notify the Transportation Security Officer of your need for special assistance at the beginning of the checkpoint screening process. At any time during the screening process, you may ask for a private screening area.

Even if an item is generally permitted, it may be subject to additional screening or not allowed through the checkpoint if it triggers an alarm during the screening process, appears to have been tampered with, or poses other security concerns. The final decision rests with TSA on whether to allow any items on the plane.

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4 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm choking to say this, but *gasp* the TSA's website is actually kind of helpful.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/prohibited-items

Searching for "Cane":

Some mobility aids may require specialized screening. To expedite your travel, notify the Transportation Security Officer of your need for special assistance at the beginning of the checkpoint screening process. At any time during the screening process, you may ask for a private screening area.

Even if an item is generally permitted, it may be subject to additional screening or not allowed through the checkpoint if it triggers an alarm during the screening process, appears to have been tampered with, or poses other security concerns. The final decision rests with TSA on whether to allow any items on the plane.

 

MOBILITY AID!  LOL.. .Awesome.  Now I'm curious if anybody has managed to get bastons through security.  They have collapsible ones these days.

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7 hours ago, MormonGator said:

i've been taking various forms of karate on and off for twenty five years. I've seen it all before. To me a sensible martial arts instructor who doesn't think they are "Indestructible! Unbeatable! I belong in Mortal Kombat real life tournaments!"  is like a round square or a married bachelor. Just ain't gonna see it. 

Yes, I'm being slightly over the top.

I have studied Rex Kwondo extensively

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On June 13, 2016 at 6:14 PM, LeSellers said:

I'm not speaking only of the tactical situation.

And, again I ask if there was no other way, a way that wouldn't cost so much in terms of liberty, of money, of loss of connectedness between the police and the public.

As I said, it is difficult to argue with success, but that is more because we can't measure the alternatives, they not being seen. And, because unseen, ignored altogether.

Lehi

 

Cost. Now that is a pretty hotly debated item. Right along up with putting a $ on a human being. But id wager that for the first guy who has to put his face where the enemy can see him, that it's not enough.

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Evidently, the Brazilians know more than we do.

Quote

Sitora Yusufiy, who was married to [-him who must not be named] in 2009 for three months, made the shocking claim on Brazilian television station SBT Brazil.

Her fiancé, Marco Dias, speaking in Portuguese on her behalf, said Yusufiy believed that [him again] had “gay tendencies” and that his father had called him gay in front of her. Dias also claimed “the FBI asked her not to tell this to the American media.”

The bombshell came as a male former classmate of [another reference] said he had been asked out romantically by the mass killer, who reportedly was a virtual regular at the Pulse nightclub, having visited it more than a dozen times over the years.

Lehi

Edited by LeSellers

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55 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

Evidently, the Brazilians know more than we do.

Lehi

Great.  Now the narrative is gonna be... This is a result of the Republicans' bigotry against homosexuals that causes gay people to have to suppress their sexuality.

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33 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Now the narrative is gonna be... This is a result of the Republicans' bigotry against homosexuals that causes gay people to have to suppress their sexuality.

With no mention of the religious choices of the perpetrator. Untouchable, and not part of the narrative.

Lehi

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On 6/14/2016 at 4:44 PM, anatess2 said:

I don't know... having a cane sticking out of your backpocket at the airport might raise some eyebrows.  In a gym bag, maybe, maybe not.  But yeah, at least it won't set off the alarm and I don't think it's illegal to carry one through airport security (never tried this though).

When I tore up my knee (yes, my preference for attacking knees comes from personal experience in how easily they get disassembled and how debilitating it is) one of my "can't go anywhere for a while" projects was carving a bois d'arc cane with a good knob at the top.  That was one tough stick, and I never had a problem taking it anywhere...though granted I wasn't going to many places that hadn't seen me on crutches for a couple weeks before getting enough strength back to use the cane, so they knew I needed it.

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On 6/14/2016 at 2:52 PM, NightSG said:

In the case of a long bone break, the muscles can sometimes sort of hold things together.  Hence the number of football players who have finished a game with a broken leg.  If you dislocate the knee fully, though, there's nothing left to hold the leg up regardless of muscle strength.  Bend it far enough backward or sideways that the femur is no longer sitting on top of the tibia, and the ACL, patellar tendon and/or PCL is completely detached or severed, and they will go down.  They may still crawl surprisingly well, but the lower leg is uncontrollable dead weight.  Same goes for the elbow to an extent; it's a simpler joint, and though you can do a lot of painful damage pretty easily, if you truly want to remove it from the fight, you need to go all the way so the connective tissue is no longer connected somewhere.  No drug overrules gravity and engineering; cut enough strings and the puppet doesn't work anymore.

Sure, it's cruel, disgusting and against the nature of any mentally sound person but so is whatever they intend to do to you.  (Or someone you care about.)  You just have to put those feelings aside and do what is necessary to stop their harm.

 

100% spot on. When the structure is destroyed the function goes with it. A leg with a knee that lacks the stability to support weight shuts down ambulation. An eye that is no longer in the socket can't see. A trachea that can't pass air doesn't allow breathing. These things are independent of pain which can be ignored via drug use, the laws of physics still apply.

Anyone packing for self defense is largely fooling themselves if they don't also train their body and mind to be the primary weapon to end the threat. There is just no guarantee that a side arm can be accessed first - if it can that's great, but if not, one really needs to be prepared to use other means until the firearm can be safely accessed.

Edited by SpiritDragon

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