Spiritual conferences

[pam]

I am asking for a friend who is having a hard time logging into lds.net.

She is looking for a talk given years ago that basically states that spiritual conferences that promise to bring you closer to Christ, but are NOT put on by the Church should be avoided.  They may be well meaning but we should not attend them.

Anyone recognize/remember this talk and can help us find it?

[NeedleinA]

I'm not sure of talk but this is a great start that I think sums up the general idea of what the Church thinks of these groups.

Handbook 2 21.3.9

Self-Awareness Groups

Many private groups and commercial organizations have programs that purport to increase self-awareness, self-esteem, and spirituality. Some groups promise to enhance individual agency or improve family relationships. Some offer “experiential” or “empowerment” training.

Some of these groups falsely claim or imply that the Church or individual General Authorities have endorsed their programs. However, the Church has not endorsed any such enterprise, and members are warned against believing such claims. The fact that the Church has not formally challenged such an enterprise should not be perceived as a tacit endorsement or approval.

Church members are also warned that some of these groups advocate concepts and use methods that can be harmful. In addition, many such groups charge exorbitant fees and encourage long-term commitments. Some intermingle worldly concepts with gospel principles in ways that can undermine spirituality and faith.

These groups tend to promise quick solutions to problems that normally require time and personal effort to resolve. Although participants may experience temporary emotional relief or exhilaration, old problems often return, leading to added disappointment and despair.

Church leaders are not to pay for, encourage participation in, or promote such groups or practices. Also, Church facilities may not be used for these activities.

Leaders should counsel members that true self-improvement comes through living gospel principles. Members who have social or emotional problems may consult with priesthood leaders for guidance in identifying sources of help that are in harmony with gospel principles.

[mirkwood]

Tell her to stay away from that Christ centered energy healing conference.  If you need more info email me.

[NeedleinA]

1 hour ago, mirkwood said:

Tell her to stay away from that Christ centered energy healing conference.  If you need more info email me.

Groups continue to market themselves differently... self-awareness, energy healing, spiritual guidance counselors, enlightenment sessions, etc. 
From what I understand, most of these groups end up teaching people they should just "be true to themselves" and that "right & wrong" are just relative terms that change with each person. They foster confusion, blur lines, challenge moral values and advocate secrecy of their doings for non-paid members.

If the Church has a whole section in Handbook 2 dedicated to this problem, it is because this is, well, a "problem". I'm not picking on Utah, but when I was out at BYU, these types of groups PREYED on LDS members. Fringe members, disenchanted members, innocently curious or those with weak understandings of the Gospel are unfortunately drawn to these groups. The philosophies of men mingled with scriptures destroying real faith and dissolving testimonies is what I personally think of them. Like Mirkwood said... Stay Away from these groups.

Here is some additional information by the Church: All SIX points are individually important because a lot of these predators implement these techniques in an effort to wear you down through marathon sessions (long hours) to make you conform to their views. Can you tell I'm not a fan.

Ward and branch councils should consider carefully whether members in their units are being drawn into such groups. If so, the bishop or branch president should take necessary steps to acquaint these members with the foregoing principles and enclosed guidelines. Where appropriate, the guidelines may be published in ward/branch bulletins. Bishops and branch presidents should use them in counseling members as they deem advisable.

Self-Awareness Group Guidelines

Church members should not participate in groups that:

1. Challenge religious and moral values or advocate unwarranted confrontation with spouse or family members as a means of reaching one’s potential.

2. Imitate sacred rites or ceremonies.

3. Foster physical contact among participants.

4. Meet late into the evening or in the early-morning hours. 

5. Encourage open confession or disclosure of personal information normally discussed only in confidential settings.

6. Cause a husband and wife to be paired with other partners.

Edited June 16, 2016 by NeedleinA

[Jennarator]

My account is working now!  Pam was posting for me. 

Thanjs for the help.  I thougjt there was a conference talk because i remember watching it on tv being broadcast from the conference center.  Wonder if he was reading this...anyways. Thanjs for the help!!

[pam]

1 hour ago, mirkwood said:

Tell her to stay away from that Christ centered energy healing conference.  If you need more info email me.

There was a lady posting on the Ask Gramps facebook page about LDS energy healers.  She was a bit out there.

[Guest]

Hey, Jennarator! 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

4. Meet late into the evening or in the early-morning hours. 

Well, that takes scouts and seminary off the table.

[NeedleinA]

56 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Well, that takes scouts and seminary off the table.

Cute Carb, cute.
Meeting late into the evening I believe is more along the lines of:

Large-group awareness training (LGAT)
LGATs utilize such techniques during long sessions, sometimes called a "marathon" session. Paglia describes "EST's Large Group Awareness Training": "Marathon, eight-hour sessions, in which [participants] were confined and harassed, supposedly led to the breakdown of conventional ego, after which they were in effect born again."

I found it rather interesting in the links section "See Also", that "Multi-level marketing/pyramid selling" is listed. MLM is also huge in Utah and throughout the Church.
Are we as members any more or less susceptible to these LGAT and MLM programs? From what I have seen over the years, I would say yes we are. Just a personal observation and frustration.  

[Jennarator]

13 hours ago, Eowyn said:

Hey, Jennarator! 

Hello!!  ?

[zil]

1 hour ago, NeedleinA said:

Meeting late into the evening I believe is more along the lines of:

Large-group awareness training (LGAT)
LGATs utilize such techniques during long sessions, sometimes called a "marathon" session. Paglia describes "EST's Large Group Awareness Training": "Marathon, eight-hour sessions, in which [participants] were confined and harassed, supposedly led to the breakdown of conventional ego, after which they were in effect born again."

Hmm.  So just the armed forces, then?

[Sunday21]

 

From Healing the Tragic Scars of Abuse by Richard G. Scott.

Caution

I caution you not to participate in two improper therapeutic practices that may cause you more harm than good. They are: Excessive probing into every minute detail of your past experiences, particularly when this involves penetrating dialogue in group discussion; and blaming the abuser for every difficulty in your life.

While some discovery is vital to the healing process, the almost morbid probing into details of past acts, long buried and mercifully forgotten, can be shattering. There is no need to pick at healing wounds to open them and cause them to fester. The Lord and his teachings can help you without destroying self-respect.

There is another danger. Detailed leading questions that probe your past may unwittingly trigger thoughts that are more imagination or fantasy than reality. They could lead to condemnation of another for acts that were not committed. While likely few in number, I know of cases where such therapy has caused great injustice to the innocent from unwittingly stimulated accusations that were later proven false. Memory, particularly adult memory of childhood experiences, is fallible. Remember, false accusation is also a sin.

Stated more simply, if someone intentionally poured a bucket of filth on your carpet, would you invite the neighbors to determine each ingredient that contributed to the ugly stain? Of course not. With the help of an expert, you would privately restore its cleanliness.

Likewise, the repair of damage inflicted by abuse should be done privately, confidentially, with a trusted priesthood leader and, where needed, the qualified professional he recommends. There must be sufficient discussion of the general nature of abuse to allow you to be given appropriate counsel and to prevent the aggressor from committing more violence. Then, with the help of the Lord, bury the past.

Something along these lines?

[NeedleinA]

1 hour ago, zil said:

Hmm.  So just the armed forces, then?

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Well, that takes scouts and seminary off the table.

Free all expenses paid LGAT vacation for @zil and @Carborendum. Keep your jokes and clever remarks to yourselves!

[zil]

1 minute ago, NeedleinA said:

Free all expenses paid LGAT vacation for @zil and @Carborendum. Keep your jokes and clever remarks to yourselves!

Wait, I thought he was going to seminary and I was going to boot camp! 

PS: I'm the lucky one - they'll invite him to have a seat and stay the whole year, but they'll take one look at me and tell me to go back home.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Free all expenses paid LGAT vacation for @zil and @Carborendum. Keep your jokes and clever remarks to yourselves!

You really thought they were clever?  Why, thank you!

[Connie]

20 hours ago, mirkwood said:

Tell her to stay away from that Christ centered energy healing conference.  If you need more info email me.

Hi, Mirkwood. Could you PM me your info about this?

[Guest]

20 hours ago, mirkwood said:

Tell her to stay away from that Christ centered energy healing conference.  If you need more info email me.

Actually, could you just post some insight about it?

[mirkwood]

 

http://www.toliftandinspire.com/2016/01/lds-doctrine-on-energy-healing-and-one-womans-story-2/#more-648

[Guest]

Thanks, @mirkwood.  A lot of good quotes in that link.  I couldn't help but thing that those same quotes applied to the recent posting of Zomarah's positions.

I've heard so many comment on how quickly the Israelites of the Old Testament kept going off to other religions -- giving into apostasy.  But so many of our own number keep doing the same thing.

Here's a personal anecdote about the muscle testing.

A sister in a ward I served in as a missionary was into the herbal supplements thing (which, in and of itself is not so bad).  But she associated it with chakra and energy and all that (again, some of it has some validity, but...) Anyway, she had me do this muscle test.  I held the herb close to my chest and held my free arm horizontally outward.  She then tried to pull it down.  She couldn't.  I thought she wasn't trying.  When I did not have the herb with me, she easily pulled down my arm.

My companion and I were both skeptical.  So, we went back to the apartment and repeated the test on each other.  We were both shocked to find that the results repeated themselves.  The level of difficulty in trying to maintain my arm in position with and without the herb was undeniably stark.  Same with my companion.

Years later, I was trying to share this knowledge with someone else.  We repeated the test, but the results were not the same.  The "herbs" did nothing to change my strength.  I have no way to explain what happened.  But I just thought that was weird.

[NeedleinA]

Do we use the tools of prayer, fasting, & priesthood blessings OR do we try to rely on imitations/substitutions/counterfeits that may appear easier or produce faster false results? Is it that hard to recognize a counterfeit? Why have we never heard that we should attend "healing/spiritual/energy conferences" in General Conference? Why are they not promoted in Church manuals/handbooks? Why don't General Authorities endorse them? Because they are counterfeits of the tools that we have already been given by our Father in Heaven. They are imitations of the Gifts of the Spirit.

James E. Talmage Articles of Faith
“Satan has shown himself to be an accomplished strategist and a skillful imitator; the most deplorable of his victories are due to his simulation of good, whereby the undiscerning have been led captive. Let no one be deluded with the thought that any act, the immediate result of which appears to be benign, is necessarily productive of permanent good. It may serve the dark purposes of Satan to play upon the human sense of goodness, even to the extent of healing the body and apparently of thwarting death.”

Elder Dallin H. Oaks “Gospel Teachings About Lying
Satan is the great deceiver and the father of lies, but he will also tell the truth when it suits his purposes. Satan’s most effective lies are half-truths or lies accompanied by truth. A lie is most effective when it can travel incognito in good company or when it can be so intermarried with the truth that we cannot determine its lineage. Satan can use truth to promote his purposes. Truth can be used unrighteously. Severed from their context, true facts can convey an erroneous impression. 

lds.org Old Testament Manual
When Aaron threw down his rod, it became a serpent. The Egyptian magicians threw down their rods, and they also became serpents. …

“… The Savior declared that Satan had the power to bind bodies of men and women and sorely afflict them [see Matthew 7:22–23; Luke 13:16]. If Satan has power to bind the bodies, he surely must have power to loose (heal) them. It should be remembered that Satan has great knowledge and thereby can exercise authority and to some extent control the elements, when some greater power does not intervene.” (Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 1:176, 178.)

Edited June 17, 2016 by NeedleinA

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, NeedleinA said:

 Is it that hard to recognize a counterfeit?

 

Some years ago I did some consulting work with the Federal Reserve Bank - I asked the question: "is there a sure fire, fool proof way to always identify counterfeit US money?"  The sure fire, fool proof way was not something I had ever heard before - but it also applies to spiritual things as well as empirical things - more than just counterfeit money.  As many times as I have asked - no one has known the method that always works.  I do not think many if any that really know how to recognize counterfeits.  In fact the more they think they know the more likely they can be fooled - especially someone that knows what they are looking for.

 

The Traveler

Edited June 17, 2016 by Traveler

[NeedleinA]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

no one has known the method that always works. 

My thoughts:

If there is a "counterfeit/forgery", well it is a counterfeit of something that is an "original". The best defense that we have against a forgery is to obtain an in depth understanding/testimony of the "original".

If the originals come from our Father in Heaven, then the counterfeits come from the Adversary. I believe that the Adversary is intellectually smarter than us. I believe that his willingness, resources and skills surpass ours... if we choose to stand "alone". He is more crafty, misleading, and cunning than most people want to acknowledge. He is truly the "Master/Father" of lies, and he has perfected his game. We in comparison are spiritual embryos attempting to battle against a force that has fine tuned it's strategies and tactics over millennia.  Who are we in comparison?

Hopefully we are the ones who "cling" to the iron rod. If needs be, at times in our lives, we cling with white knuckles to that rod even as family and friends, intentionally or unintentionally try to pull us off of it. We are the ones that will prevail over counterfeits as we put on the whole Armor of God each day. We are the ones who will not be deceived because we not only hear the Spirit's promptings, but we actually listen to them and obey. We are the ones who keep to our covenants. 

Putting on the partial Armor of God is not enough, it takes the whole thing. At least for me in my life, when I'm really putting on the whole Armor of God, clinging to the Rod, and heeding the promptings of the Spirit... life and choices are crystal clear and counterfeits are easy to spot. When we are not actively doing these things, perspective and direction becomes blurry and it is easier to fall for a forgery.   

Edited June 17, 2016 by NeedleinA

[Sunday21]

Pharaoh's snakes

 

 

[NeedleinA]

57 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Pharaoh's snakes

If Pharaoh's Mercury Snake is interesting to us in 2016, I imagine it would have been a show stopper back in ancient Egypt. Thanks for sharing Sunday.

[NightSG]

On 6/15/2016 at 10:10 PM, NeedleinA said:

2. Imitate sacred rites or ceremonies.

3. Foster physical contact among participants.

4. Meet late into the evening or in the early-morning hours. 

Sounds like a good martial arts class so far.