Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

I do participate in the sacrament, but when the tray is not directly in front of me, I write: pondering on His sacrifice.  There is a large amount of time when your hands are not actively doing something in ordinances.  There is down time in the temple, such as sitting in the celestial room afterwards. 

And????  Did you write while being baptized?  Did you write while being confirmed?   I am pretty sure the answer is no.  You already accept a certain amount of limits during ordinances...   Temple ordinances simply take longer...  Take your note book... write whatever you want... once you get to the locker accept the fact that the notebook belongs in the locker as well along with your other things.  From that point on you are preparing for and receiving ordinances (even if some of that involves waiting).  Once that is done and you are back at your locker the notebook can come out along with your other things... and you can start writing again.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a writer, I can appreciate the desire, even the need, to write my thoughts and feelings as something as so important as going thru the Temple. However, it's just not practical, at least not during the Initiatory and the Endowment. We can't really tell you why that is the case, but you will come to see and understand when you do go thru. It also would be a distraction to the session itself, and take away from the sacredness of the experience for others. You will need to be paying attention to what is going on, as you will be actively participating. The Celestial room would be an appropriate place, however, not sure if they will allow you to carry a notebook and pen with you during the session itself. 

You are just going to have to trust those of us who have been thru the Temple on this. Your disappointment is understandable, though unavoidable. I'm sorry. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You will only be allowed to have a white kerchief or tissues [sans the wrapper] with you when you go through your endowment session. No notebook, no writing instrument. When you are changing back into your street clothes, then would be the closest time to write.

Have you taken your Temple Preparedness classes? Have you brought this up with your instructor? Have you brought this up with your Bishop/Branch President? If not, you really should. Because if you cannot understand why your cannot bring your notebook into the sacred Temple during THE most sacred of ordinances, then perhaps one of these people can better explain it to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You will only be allowed to have a white kerchief or tissues [sans the wrapper] with you when you go through your endowment session. No notebook, no writing instrument. When you are changing back into your street clothes, then would be the closest time to write.

Have you taken your Temple Preparedness classes? Have you brought this up with your instructor? Have you brought this up with your Bishop/Branch President? If not, you really should. Because if you cannot understand why your cannot bring your notebook into the sacred Temple during THE most sacred of ordinances, then perhaps one of these people can better explain it to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Iggy said:

You will only be allowed to have a white kerchief or tissues [sans the wrapper] with you when you go through your endowment session. No notebook, no writing instrument. When you are changing back into your street clothes, then would be the closest time to write.

OK, I'm just asking for clarification. Don't patrons take their ceremonial clothing with them into an endowment session? Can't a notebook and pen be included in the envelope that carry this clothing; to be available in the celestial room?

M.

Edited by Maureen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Maureen said:

OK, I'm just asking for clarification. Don't patrons take their ceremonial clothing with them into an endowment session? Can't a notebook and pen be included in the envelope that carry this clothing; to be available in the celestial room?

M.

Hypothetically yes, they could easily be toted in (my MIL has a little pouch in the envelope that she uses to smuggle Tic Tacs into sessions).  But I would venture to guess that as soon as you actually got your pen and paper out and started writing, someone would politely tap you on the shoulder and ask that you put it away.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Hypothetically yes, they could easily be toted in (my MIL has a little pouch in the envelope that she uses to smuggle Tic Tacs into sessions).  But I would venture to guess that as soon as you actually got your pen and paper out and started writing, someone would politely tap you on the shoulder and ask that you put it away.

Most likely, yes. It would be disruptive to the flow of participation of the patron. Endowment sessions are not like Sunday talks or lessons. After the review of Creation, it's not a passive ceremony. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, TeresaA said:

Most likely, yes. It would be disruptive to the flow of participation of the patron. Endowment sessions are not like Sunday talks or lessons. After the review of Creation, it's not a passive ceremony. 

Not talking about writing during an endowment session but writing later in the celestial room.

M.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Maureen said:

OK, I'm just asking for clarification. Don't patrons take their ceremonial clothing with them into an endowment session? Can't a notebook and pen be included in the envelope that carry this clothing; to be available in the celestial room?

M.

Maureen, we have been asked to not bring such things into the Celestial room. We have been instructed to not even bring our own patriarchal blessings into the room. For that reason, I agree with the others that you CAN bring it, but would be asked to put it away once the worker saw you with it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The nearest temple to me has an annexe. The annexe includes toilets and showers, a small kitchen, a child minding room, a large cupboard for storing luggage, and a lounge-room type area. It comes under the same roof as the temple and could therefore be considered as part of the temple. Anyone can access the annexe, however, to get to the rest of the temple from the annexe, you need to show your temple recommend at the counter. I guess that in some respects, the annexe could be considered a half way mark between the temple and the outside world. All manner of activities go on in the annexe, including writing, so I guess to that extent, writing in that part of the temple would be totally unproblematic. I'm guessing that your temple does not have an annexe, but the fact that writing is perfectly permissible in temples that do have an annexe seems to suggest that in some circumstances, writing in one part of the temple is quite all right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/27/2016 at 8:32 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

One other thought:  many other cultures (even some in scripture, like the ancient Hebrews) have a strong tradition of memorized oral history and religious liturgy that is has largely from western culture with our affinity for writing-and-forgetting.  The temple, with its apparent proscription on writing at key places, may represent an opportunity for individuals to rediscover that disappearing art form and offer another way to commune with the past.

Remember; they usually sang or at least chanted these liturgies, so belt it out!  Share your song of inspiration and praise, not just with the Celestial Room, or the rest of the temple, but dial up those vocal chords so the entire neighborhood can join in your experience.

 

Bet they give you a pen and paper after that.  :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/27/2016 at 8:32 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

One other thought:  many other cultures (even some in scripture, like the ancient Hebrews) have a strong tradition of memorized oral history and religious liturgy that is has largely from western culture with our affinity for writing-and-forgetting.  The temple, with its apparent proscription on writing at key places, may represent an opportunity for individuals to rediscover that disappearing art form and offer another way to commune with the past.

Remember; they usually sang or at least chanted these liturgies, so belt it out!  Share your song of inspiration and praise, not just with the Celestial Room, or the rest of the temple, but dial up those vocal chords so the entire neighborhood can join in your experience.

 

Bet they give you a pen and paper after that.  :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/27/2016 at 8:32 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

One other thought:  many other cultures (even some in scripture, like the ancient Hebrews) have a strong tradition of memorized oral history and religious liturgy that is has largely from western culture with our affinity for writing-and-forgetting.  The temple, with its apparent proscription on writing at key places, may represent an opportunity for individuals to rediscover that disappearing art form and offer another way to commune with the past.

Remember; they usually sang or at least chanted these liturgies, so belt it out!  Share your song of inspiration and praise, not just with the Celestial Room, or the rest of the temple, but dial up those vocal chords so the entire neighborhood can join in your experience.

 

Bet they give you a pen and paper after that.  :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe that the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve hold weekly meetings in an upper room in the Salt Lake temple. Possibly, those who attend take notes in these meetings. Maybe even written notes. But that's a different kind of circumstance to what you are inquiring about and maybe it only happens in the Salt Lake temple. However, it would be a little surprising if the Temple Presidency of every temple in the world does not take written notes when meeting with his counsellors in his Temple President's office. And when we read our scriptures, as we are often encouraged to do, and are allowed to do in the Temple, are we not also encouraged to mark and make notes in our scriptures? 

Edited by askandanswer
Added the final sentence

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometimes when I am in circumstances when I want to write something down but am unable to do so, I use the voice recorder function on my phone and then transcribe it later. I also find that when I record, rather than write, I capture much more information. The recording also captures the tone of my voice at the time, which can sometimes convey more feeling than written words on a paper. Then when the circumstances are more favourable, I can transcribe the recording into my journal.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update on this (man this is a long story… but it’s a good one, so I’m going to share it)---

 

*Quick background here* There supposedly is a temple policy which forbids writing in the Celestial Room.  This is problematic for me, because writing is how I pray.  It takes this noisy jack rabbit brain of mine, clears it like Christ calming the waves on the sea-- praying calms the waves in me.  To me, to write is to pray, and to be write is to be forbidden to pray.  This is how I am.  You can call it Asperger's if you want, labels don't really change anything.  This is how I am, as a child of God.  I pray with pen.

 

 

My road to the temple... was rocky.  During temple prep, my teachers were... honestly not helpful at all.  I asked questions that had never occurred to them and they didn't know what to say to someone who has written prayers.  So I also asked here and with my LDS friends.  By far most commonly people had never thought of this question of praying via pen, and looked at me like I suddenly grew second head.  And by in large then dismissed my concerns and "just deal with it", not understanding why writing was such a big deal to me- not understanding how I felt gagged.

So I called the temple matron expressing my concern about not being able to pray/write at the temple.  Honestly, the conversation with her left me sobbing.  She didn't understand, and just shut me down, I felt hurt and shunned.  Too hurt to try talking to the matron myself again, I asked my mom to speak to the temple president about this for me (mom is a temple worker and the temple president is an old family associate).  Again, shut down. Hurting, I seriously considered delaying my temple trip-- which would also meaning missing my sister's sealing.  I hurt really bad.  

After much prayer and thought, I decided to go through with my scheduled date because... well frankly I'm a stubborn stick in the mud and wasn't going to let any imperfect man stand in the way of me going to the temple.  I was going to do this, stupid policy or not.  I prayed fervently for strength... and honestly looked up a local park in case I needed to run somewhere afterwards.

Edited by Jane_Doe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I went to the temple, and for the vast majority loved the experience- it was like the peace/relationship-with-Christ I feel managed to jump out into a building form-- like everyone around me finally "got" the joy and warmth and growth I feel with Christ.  Until the Celestial Room... no.  It hurt so bad.  I could not write/pray-- I felt gagged in a place which is supposed to the holy place.  I had to leave and cry.

Stubborn, I tried going back later… it just hurt more.  And more.  And more.  I felt broken, rejected, gagged, like these stupid humans were trying to stand between me and God.  Angry and in pain, I decided that I would wait a season till… I don’t know what.  It’s just what I felt pushed to do from God.   Through the Spirit I felt I knew the way to go here—but my eyes and my brain had no idea why I was to go this way… liking walking on an invisible bridge….

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Months passed.  A new temple opened up closer to my home (rest of this post is about the new temple).  I enjoyed the dedication, and being able to sit in the dedicatory chapel afterwards praying the way I do (with a pen).  The workers looked at me weird, but no one forbid me.  Still, I did not go to the temple… it was not yet time.

Months passed again. Elder Holland’s General Conference talk “Songs Sung and Unsung” came out.  I listened to it, and with joyful tears in my eyes literally and immediately walked over to the computer and hit “play again”.  And then for a third time.   Rarely have any words touched me as much as “Heavenly Father delights to have us sing in our own voice, not someone else’s.”  I waited for the opportunity to sing in my voice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More months passed again.  Local leaders had this whole big go-to-the-temple-kick… and I couldn’t stay in the room.  Lesson after lesson.  Week after week.  At the 9584th lesson on this (obvious a number exaggeration) I felt this prompting: “hey, you go talk to your VT about this”.   So after the lesson, I went and asked “hey, do you have sometime this week I could stop by and chat?”  Abridging the story: we spent the next two hours in the nursery as I just balled.  And balled.  And then cried some more.  And somewhere in there did actually do some talking. 

My VT said “You know, I actually have a meeting schedule with the temple president in a two weeks.  Is it ok with you if I chat with him about this?”.  Two weeks later I get a phone call: “I talked with the temple president and he wanted to personally welcome you and your written prayers to the temple.”

WOOOHHHHHHOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!  I was overjoyed.   I quickly made preparations to go.   A week after this awesome phone call, the temple president personally visited my ward, and asked specifically for me by name.  Wow!  And what a sucky week to miss church because of a sick kid!  J

Since then I’ve been several times and…. I am home and I am singing.  Life is amazing and God is beyond amazing.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
2 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

There supposedly is a temple policy which forbids writing in the Celestial Room.  This is problematic for me, because writing is how I pray.  It takes this noisy jack rabbit brain of mine, clears it like Christ calming the waves on the sea-- praying calms the waves in me.  To me, to write is to pray, and to be write is to be forbidden to pray.  This is how I am.  You can call it Asperger's if you want, labels don't really change anything.  This is how I am, as a child of God.  I pray with pen.

I didn't realize there was such a policy.  But my biggest question is more of a practical nature.  Where do you carry anything to write with/on when you're in temple clothes?  My pockets are too small to carry anything useful.

There used to be a policy/law against jurors being allowed to take notes while sitting in the jury box.  In the N.F.L. (National Forensics League) we were debating the policy and the proposed legislation to allow jurors to take notes. One of the concerns was that they may not be paying attention properly if they were writing.  Another argument was that the court reporter notes were available if they needed to review anything.  I'm not sure what happened to that legislation.  But I do know that some states do allow that.  It may be that only my state had such a policy.

The fact that you pray with pen is an interesting notion.  I didn't really think about it this way, but I stopped writing in my journal a while back. But when I did, I found I really got overly emotional.  I think it was a good thing to stop (for me).  But the way I felt, the introspection, the thoughts, etc.  Yes, it was very much like a prayer.

Edited by Guest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

One of the concerns was that they may not be paying attention properly if they were writing.

And yet it's assumed that if a student doesn't take notes in class, they'll forget the material and not do well in class.  <sigh>  If I were to be on a jury and were told that I couldn't take notes, I'd say, "Fine, he's innocent then." and decline to pay attention - because auditory learning is my weakest learning method - I cannot remember well what I only hear.

@Jane_Doe, I too am curious how you manage the mechanics of this. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the endowment, we covenant to keep certain things private, even -- dare I say it? -- secret. We do not speak of those things or write them down. Such sacred things are to be kept very close to the vest. They are to ponder in our minds and hearts, to commune with God in spirit and not communicate to others.

But what if someone literally cannot think or ponder without writing something down? I suppose I would ask how such a person ever learned to write in the first place, since they would have been unable to think. It's not at all clear to me that such a thing even makes sense.

I'm happy that things have worked out for you, and that your temple president was spiritually sensitive enough to receive revelation for you. But I hesitate to condemn previous authorities or decry their decisions as men stabding impudently or stubbornly or foolishly between you and God.

Now that you have been granted this blessing, perhaps you might start working on your ability to ponder and pray without relying on pen and paper. Such skills can be developed. I was never a good auditory learner. All through college, lectures were a painful trial. But through the years following college, I developed the ability to listen and learn from the spoken word. It's still not my preferred way of learning, but I can do it and have profited from the skill. You might consider a similar path.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now