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You don't know what you may be protected from by keeping your temple covenants. You don't know what blessings you might be missing out on by not seeking for a deeper understand of and reverence for their importance.

The Temple is just a building, but it's one that's been dedicated for those saving ordinances. You know, in the beginning, those ordinances were done in leaders' offices and homes, and then later in the Endowment House in SLC while the temple there was being completed. 

You must understand that flippantly saying that we're doing "ceremonies in a building" would be offensive to those of us who understand the importance of those ordinances (not ceremonies) we do for living and dead.  

Edited by Eowyn
missed an important word
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3 minutes ago, Reece said:

Well if you took something I said as belittling, that was not my intent. 

Fair enough... but when the majority of the thread is reacting the same way to what you said... then that would point to you having failed to properly convey your intent, rather then your intent being misunderstood. 

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8 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Fair enough... but when the majority of the thread is reacting the same way to what you said... then that would point to you having failed to properly convey your intent, rather then your intent being misunderstood. 

I can quote several people being sarcastic and belittling toward me. Please show me where I was belittling.  Saying I don't understand something, or asking why shouldn't be taken personally by anyone. If I were an investigator I sure wouldn't be continuing my investigation if I were treated as I have been. And actually, most comments were very thoughtful. It was only two people who were rude in their responses. 

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8 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Fair enough... but when the majority of the thread is reacting the same way to what you said... then that would point to you having failed to properly convey your intent, rather then your intent being misunderstood. 

I can quote several people being sarcastic and belittling toward me. Please show me where I was belittling.  Saying I don't understand something, or asking why shouldn't be taken personally by anyone. If I were an investigator I sure wouldn't be continuing my investigation if I were treated as I have been. And actually, most comments were very thoughtful. It was only two people who were rude in t

 

8 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

FYI, "I'm sorry you were offended"/"I'm sorry you took it that way" are not apologies. Pet peeve of mine. :) 

It wasn't intended to be an apology because as I've said....I wasn't trying to bash belittle, etc.  I wasn't even thinking it...so I AM sorry if 

8 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

FYI, "I'm sorry you were offended"/"I'm sorry you took it that way" are not apologies. Pet peeve of mine. :) 

heir responses. 

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8 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Fair enough... but when the majority of the thread is reacting the same way to what you said... then that would point to you having failed to properly convey your intent, rather then your intent being misunderstood. 

I can quote several people being sarcastic and belittling toward me. Please show me where I was belittling.  Saying I don't understand something, or asking why shouldn't be taken personally by anyone. If I were an investigator I sure wouldn't be continuing my investigation if I were treated as I have been. And actually, most comments were very thoughtful. It was only two people who were rude in t

 

8 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

FYI, "I'm sorry you were offended"/"I'm sorry you took it that way" are not apologies. Pet peeve of mine. :) 

It wasn't intended to be an apology because as I've said....I wasn't trying to bash belittle, etc.  I wasn't even thinking it...so I AM sorry if someone took it that way and I can't apologize for something I didn't do or am not sorry for. 

8 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

FYI, "I'm sorry you were offended"/"I'm sorry you took it that way" are not apologies. Pet peeve of mine. :) 

heir responses. 

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Hello Reece,

This isn't an answer to your question; although it will be something to ponder relating to your question. All your questions have resulted from the disobedience of the sons and daughters of God since Adam and Eve bore their first child. If all of the sons and daughters of God, since Adam, loved the Lord more than they loved this world these type of questions would not exist. They exist as a result of disobedience. There wouldn't be a need for missionaries as all the sons and daughters would be members. There wouldn't be any thoughts regarding separated families (divorced) as this wouldn't have occurred.

When Adam first went out into the wilderness he was given a command. When the angel visiting asked why he followed, his response, I know not save the Lord commanded me. These are questions which will fall under the same category (because it has not been revealed" and individuals have been telling you what has been revealed. A merciful and loving God will work out all things, at this moment though, like Adam, we move forward -- although not knowing the whole purpose -- in light of what has been commanded knowing that God works everything out.

Returning back to the same questions, which cannot be adequately answered at this time, which means we move forward in faith knowing that at some time the questions will be answered and we will then know. Our responsibility is to move forward, like Adam and Eve, even when we do not know. That is faith. That is hope. That is charity toward God.

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17 minutes ago, Reece said:

I can quote several people being sarcastic and belittling toward me. Please show me where I was belittling. 

If you believe people have broken the rules then report them... Here is how you have belittling and attacked the church

 

On 6/24/2016 at 8:16 AM, Reece said:

Thanks for the input. I am well aware. I just think SO much more could be done with the time, and $ dedicated to temple work. 

Note not a question... But do note that you are stating that you know better then the prophets who are leading the work on what God wants

On 6/25/2016 at 2:07 PM, Reece said:

The Lords work, yes. But where has the Lord said he wants big expensive buildings to do his work in? I recall it being done in the top floor of Joseph Smith's store. I could be wrong...I just think it's the ordinances and not the building that is important. 

This is a question...  and it is self answering if you believe that the Prophets are being guided by God in the fulling of his Commands to build temple modernly like he commanded the temple/Tabernacle anciently.. The only reason not to believe that the Lord said it is if you don't believe God is instructing them

 

On 6/25/2016 at 2:12 PM, Reece said:

I don't know that the Lord has said he needs a big expensive building. To me, it's the ordinances, not the building hat matters. Ordinances were performed on the top floor of Jospehs Smiths store at one point. 

Again more not questions... but statements.  Statements that once again are simply answered if you believe the church is currently lead by God

 

All because we don't fully understand everything about how Sealing work.

But sealing aren't the only thing we don't fully understand...  Most of what happens in this life and why we are not likely to understand... That is by design.  We need to develop and have Faith... and Faith is to not have a perfect knowledge.

It is ok to have questions and ask questions about which you do not understand... it is not ok or acceptable to imply/state that the church is not being led by God or that the church has motives other then following God when they build temples and spend the Lords funds which is exactly what you have done as clearly shown in the above quotes.

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https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/124.29-31?lang=eng#28

...and really, just keep reading to the end of the section.  Verse 43 confirms that the Lord said where to build it, and the whole section makes perfectly clear that he wants a house built (in other words, not just anywhere will do - except in poverty, and then only temporarily, and even then, the Lord told them where was / was not OK).

See also: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/57.3?lang=eng#2

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/84.3?lang=eng#2

It seems clear to me that if the Lord is intimately involved in the building of his temples.

And then there's this:

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/mark/14.4-6?lang=eng#3

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/john/12.3-7?lang=eng#2

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/26.7-10?lang=eng#6

"There is enough and to spare," the Lord has told us.  I think we should trust him on this.

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3 hours ago, Reece said:

 I look at people, very good, loving, wise, people with happy righteous families who I believe will have and be perfectly intelligent and loving in the eternities. I don't think because they chose not to go through a ceremony in a specific building that I will be "above" them. I know, we believe they will have the opportunity to be sealed, etc. my mind just takes me to why is that necessary? 

Are you asking why is it necessary to be physically sealed (either yourself or in proxy), or why is it is necessary to be sealed in general?  I'll try to answer both...

When I was married (my husband is non-LDS), I made a vow to him: a vow to always be by his side, to romantically love him and no one else, to be open and honest with him, and share everything I am/have with him.  Did I already plan on doing that before we married?  Yes!  But my vow on that wedding day formalized my commitment to him, making me formally responsible for upholding it, and formally entitled to the benefits from it.  Going through that process further solidified our bond with eat other.

Honestly, I do hope my husband comes to embrace the gospel one day and we can be sealed together.  I hope we will formally make a vow to God, declaring our desire and willingness to be a couple for the eternities.  Did we already plan on being the best we can before God?  Yes!  But our vow on that sealing day will formalize our commitment to God, making us formally responsible for upholding it, and formally entitled to the benefits from it.  

 

As to a sealed couple being "above" a non-sealed one--

A sealed couple is not automatically "better" than a non-sealed one.  Rather a couple that has Christ activity in their lives is more blessed and more responsible for their actions than one which does not.  Why?  Because having Christ is your life brings blessings & responsibilities!   Furthermore committing yourself to Him brings even further blessings & responsibilities!  

 

 

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9 hours ago, estradling75 said:

 

If you believe people have broken the rules then report them... Here is how you have belittling and attacked the church

 

Note not a question... But do note that you are stating that you know better then the prophets who are leading the work on what God wants

This is a question...  and it is self answering if you believe that the Prophets are being guided by God in the fulling of his Commands to build temple modernly like he commanded the temple/Tabernacle anciently.. The only reason not to believe that the Lord said it is if you don't believe God is instructing them

 

Again more not questions... but statements.  Statements that once again are simply answered if you believe the church is currently lead by God

 

All because we don't fully understand everything about how Sealing work.

But sealing aren't the only thing we don't fully understand...  Most of what happens in this life and why we are not likely to understand... That is by design.  We need to develop and have Faith... and Faith is to not have a perfect knowledge.

It is ok to have questions and ask questions about which you do not understand... it is not ok or acceptable to imply/state that the church is not being led by God or that the church has motives other then following God when they build temples and spend the Lords funds which is exactly what you have done as clearly shown in the above quotes.

 

Oh....so as long we hold the same opinions polite conversation is ok? How about you just state what you believe, or expound on how you understand things. If this truly is your belief why didn't you just say, "I believe the leaders are told what to do by God, and that's good enough for me" (for example). What I was getting at is; IS there somewhere that outlines where and how they are built, etc or is it just a decision by the men in charge because that's how it's been done? The questions were answered kindly and adequately by several others. I don't need further expounding.  In my experience, someone firm in their beliefs doesn't get all riled up, sarcastic and accusatory when someone states an opposing opinion and wants to discuss. (Just food for thought). I in no way believe I'm right about everything. I state my thoughts and welcome others input. I really am done here....as it is counter productive at this point.  Thanks for all the thoughtful responses and cited sources! 

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10 hours ago, Eowyn said:

Then what is it intended to be?

Just what i said: that I was sorry they took it that way. If I exclaim "Your dress!" (And in my mind I'm thinking it's beautiful) but in your mind you're thinking it's ugly and my exclamation was rude as it was obviously pertaining to the ugliness, you may state you thought I was rude. I wouldn't apologize....as I didn't do anything rude. I would be sorry that you FELT offended.  That is the difference. Hence the problem with the written word. You can't see facial expressions or hear vocal inflictions that would give very meaningful clues as to the intent of what is said. 

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10 hours ago, Eowyn said:

Then what is it intended to be?

Just what i said: that I was sorry they took it that way. If I exclaim "Your dress!" (And in my mind I'm thinking it's beautiful) but in your mind you're thinking it's ugly and my exclamation was rude as it was obviously pertaining to the ugliness, you may state you thought I was rude. I wouldn't apologize....as I didn't do anything rude. I would be sorry that you FELT offended.  That is the difference. Hence the problem with the written word. You can't see facial expressions or hear vocal inflictions that would give very meaningful clues as to the intent of what is said. 

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10 hours ago, Eowyn said:

You don't know what you may be protected from by keeping your temple covenants. You don't know what blessings you might be missing out on by not seeking for a deeper understand of and reverence for their importance.

The Temple is just a building, but it's one that's been dedicated for those saving ordinances. You know, in the beginning, those ordinances were done in leaders' offices and homes, and then later in the Endowment House in SLC while the temple there was being completed. 

You must understand that flippantly saying that we're doing "ceremonies in a building" would be offensive to those of us who understand the importance of those ordinances (not ceremonies) we do for living and dead.  

Interesting that you assume I'm not seeking a deeper understanding or reverence. Also ironically you point out my thoughts...about the place not being important, but the ordinance. 

Edited by Reece
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9 hours ago, Reece said:

Interesting that you assume I'm not seeking a deeper understanding or reverence. Also ironically you point out my thoughts...about the place not being important, but the ordinance. 

The place is not in and of itself magical.  The place is important and sacred because the Lord tells his prophets what place to use and what to use it for.

Also, I understand that you feel attacked by some, but please be aware that the phrasing you used in many of your statements and questions was such that a fair percentage (myself included) interpreted that phrasing as dismissive of or contrary to things we've been taught were true and sacred our whole lives (in the church).  Therefore, while it's understandable for you to feel upset when someone interprets your words in a way you didn't intend, when several interpret your words in the same (unintended by you) way, the logical response is to realize that you need to clarify or restate your thoughts so that others can correctly interpret your intent.

Also, you may wish to review that policy post about what's OK / not OK to post, to be sure that you're not near to crossing any lines (phrasing can be the difference between near the line and over the line).

Offered with respect.

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10 hours ago, Reece said:

Oh....so as long we hold the same opinions polite conversation is ok? How about you just state what you believe, or expound on how you understand things. If this truly is your belief why didn't you just say, "I believe the leaders are told what to do by God, and that's good enough for me" (for example). What I was getting at is; IS there somewhere that outlines where and how they are built, etc or is it just a decision by the men in charge because that's how it's been done? The questions were answered kindly and adequately by several others. I don't need further expounding.  In my experience, someone firm in their beliefs doesn't get all riled up, sarcastic and accusatory when someone states an opposing opinion and wants to discuss. (Just food for thought). I in no way believe I'm right about everything. I state my thoughts and welcome others input. I really am done here....as it is counter productive at this point.  Thanks for all the thoughtful responses and cited sources! 

You really aren't listening to anyone that you disagree with are you?

 

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