"I think we met in the pre-existence."


Awakened
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I think it's safe to say, we all laughed at this line in The Single's Ward. But... Here's the thing. Can this actually happen? Is this really legit? Have people met their partner in the pre-existence and promised each other that they would meet?

I ask because... I have a very strange yet persistent feeling inside me that this is true. But my feelings have been wrong before of course.

Edited by Awakened
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It is true.  Some pretty credible sources have shared stories of memories of the pre-existence awakening.  Not usually in much detail since the veil does prevent total recall, but I have had similar experiences of my own.  I find them to be very comforting, actually and they strengthen my testimony.

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10 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Who are these children coming down....?

Could you rephrase? I'm not quite sure what you're asking here.

27 minutes ago, unixknight said:

It is true.  Some pretty credible sources have shared stories of memories of the pre-existence awakening.  Not usually in much detail since the veil does prevent total recall, but I have had similar experiences of my own.  I find them to be very comforting, actually and they strengthen my testimony.

Would you be able to elaborate more? Also, what are these credible sources? I must read more.

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21 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Who are these children coming down....?

Awakened,

this is a line from the musical Saturday's Warrior. if I remember right, the main character guy knew the main character girl in the pre-existence.

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3 minutes ago, tesuji said:

Awakened,

this is a line from the musical Saturday's Warrior. if I remember right, the main character guy knew the main character girl in the pre-existence.

Ahhh. Never watched that as I'm really not into musicals. :3

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I think it's very possible.

I know someone whose patriarchal blessing blesses that person to find the mate they knew in the pre-existence. I'm not saying this case is true for everyone, though...

I remember running into people at BYU all the time who seemed so very familiar. I wondered if a lot of us had know each other before, sort of like recruits going down to earth at the same time.

Eternity also stretches backwards into the past, not just into the future. We had a lot of time to know a lot of people. In theory. I don't have any concrete idea of what our lives were like as premortal spirits.

 

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Guest LiterateParakeet
1 hour ago, Awakened said:

I think it's safe to say, we all laughed at this line in The Single's Ward. But... Here's the thing. Can this actually happen? Is this really legit? Have people met their partner in the pre-existence and promised each other that they would meet?

I ask because... I have a very strange yet persistent feeling inside me that this is true. But my feelings have been wrong before of course.

Yes, I believe it is true. Ive had more than one witness of it. 

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8 hours ago, Awakened said:

I think it's safe to say, we all laughed at this line in The Single's Ward. But... Here's the thing. Can this actually happen? Is this really legit? Have people met their partner in the pre-existence and promised each other that they would meet?

I ask because... I have a very strange yet persistent feeling inside me that this is true. But my feelings have been wrong before of course.

I dont see why not.. Could help explain some cases of deja vu. Apart from revelation, no way to know in this life.

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12 hours ago, Awakened said:

I think it's safe to say, we all laughed at this line in The Single's Ward. But... Here's the thing. Can this actually happen? Is this really legit? Have people met their partner in the pre-existence and promised each other that they would meet?

I ask because... I have a very strange yet persistent feeling inside me that this is true. But my feelings have been wrong before of course.

As to the first question regarding "[promising] each other that they would meet" doesn't appear to be inline with any doctrine (at least to the majority of God's spiritual heirs). Now, could we have known each other -- yes, for sure! What about Joseph Smith? I wouldn't be surprised if this was true for Emma and Joseph. Adam met Eve before they were spiritually organized in the Garden of Eden, did they make any promise? We don't know.

This also steps very close to the pseudo doctrine, "I have to find the one!" I remember one of my teachers at BYU, who also taught seminary, explaining how a man who was in his 40's (married with 4 children) had met a wonderful young lady he worked with. He strongly believed he received a spiritual witness that she was "the one." He divorced his wife, left his family, and married this wonderful young lady -- "the one." The Lord would have never provided such a witness, no matter how much a person wants to convince themselves, "It was confirmed by the Spirit." 

The concept of "plural marriage" in some instances would confirm this principle to be a pseudo doctrine; however, again possibly for a small majority this will not be the case. Did Nephi find his one, or would he have chosen a different partner if they stayed in Jerusalem? 

This teaching would beg other questions, "What made one child fortunate enough to be even close to the one he made the promise to, while others were born on separate continents, or even different generations. The promise brings back to my remembrance this song from Last of the Mohicans (I Will Find You), "No matter where you go I will find you...if it takes a thousand years." Here are principles of doctrine one will have to take in mind regarding any promise (not made by God) in our counsels in heaven:

1) Moral agency -- how many of our brothers and sisters made a promise, even to God, and are not living up to such due to moral agency? And God will not interfere with our free mind.

2) Listening to the spirit through righteous living -- how would a person be directed to "their one" if they were born on separate continents, or even same state but different cities, according to God's will? The only way would be through righteous living and living close to God's spirit. How many of us actually live close enough to this spirit that we would be able to listen to such delicate promptings that would direct us in the right direction? What sin would have caused such to be lost?

3) God already knew who we would marry -- imagine one of our brothers or sisters making a promise and God is thinking, "Great promise, but I have already seen your choice in a companion, and it wasn't her."

4) God is perfectly just -- What principles would make it fair and just that some were able to choose, promise, their companion "I will find you" (and they are found), while others simply had to "make do" (poor choice of words but that appears to be in line with "second best") with a second choice. "I wanted her, but I was born a thousand years before her, so I had to make do." Now I have a new "one and only" -- so to speak. As God is no respecter of persons than some principle/law would have to in place for God to remain such.

5) Soul Mates, "Soul mates' are fiction and an illusion; ... it is certain that almost any good man and any good woman can have happiness and a successful marriage."

"While I am sure some young couples have some special guidance in getting together, I do not believe in predestined love. If you desire the inspiration of the Lord in this crucial decision, you must live the standards of the Church, and you must pray constantly for the wisdom to recognize those qualities upon which a successful union may be based. You must do the choosing, rather than to seek for some one-and-only so-called soul mate, chosen for you by someone else and waiting for you. You are to do the choosing. You must be wise beyond your years and humbly prayerful unless you choose amiss” (Eternal Love [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1973], p. 11).

These are a few principles I can see off-hand that would interfere with this concept, particularly #5 as given by President Spencer W. Kimball. 

EDIT: This statement, "But my feelings have been wrong before of course." is for all of us. We, ALL, at times will find ourselves believing something to be true, which is false. The Brother of Jared experienced this when he saw God's finger. The Apostles during Christ's life, asked the Lord regarding the blind man "who sinned" and they were shared true doctrine. What matters most, is how we respond when truth is provided. Do we humble ourselves, or do we turn away from the Lord like others who no longer followed Jesus because he spoke hard things? That is our choice, our moral agency. :)  So, I would be less concerned about being wrong, and more concerned about the heart that changes when truth is shared, because we will ALL be wrong at some point. 

Edited by Anddenex
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We know from scripture that there was social interaction in the realm of premortal spirits. We acted, learned and excercised our agency. we certainly used our feelings to express our thoughts concerning everything around, including one to another. In “the Family - a proclamation to the world”, we learn that "gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose”. So, we can safetly say that we interacted as male and female spirits. We made covenants to our Heavenly Father there. Did we promisse that we would find our mates here? I don’t know. But since we know very little (though enough to understand the plan) about our premortal life, it sounds pretty reasonable to think we had favorite ones there we wanted to meet here again.

 

Edited by Edspringer
misspelled word, verb tense
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1 hour ago, Edspringer said:

Did we promissed that we would find our mates here? I don’t know.

We do know, as President Spencer W. Kimball has said, "Soul mates' are fiction and an illusion; ... it is certain that almost any good man and any good woman can have happiness and a successful marriage." The promise of meeting our mates, coined "soul mate," in our pre-mortal life is fiction an illusion.

The idea of meeting our current spouse wouldn't be fiction. We knew many of our spiritual brothers and sisters before coming here.

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Guest LiterateParakeet
1 hour ago, Anddenex said:

We do know, as President Spencer W. Kimball has said, "Soul mates' are fiction and an illusion; ... it is certain that almost any good man and any good woman can have happiness and a successful marriage." The promise of meeting our mates, coined "soul mate," in our pre-mortal life is fiction an illusion.

The idea of meeting our current spouse wouldn't be fiction. We knew many of our spiritual brothers and sisters before coming here.

As The Folk Prophet and Estradling reminded us in another thread, ONE leader sharing his thoughts on a topic does not doctrine make.   Pres. Kimball wrote this in a book, it's not something he said in General Conference and it's not confirmed by other leaders.  For me that leaves the subject open.  Of course, Pres. Kimball's words carry weight, but by themselves they are not doctrine. 

Some people were fore ordained to certain missions. I don't think it's unreasonable that some relationships were also foreordained. I'm not talking about couples here, but couples and families, parents, lineage etc.

Edited by LiterateParakeet
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26 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

As The Folk Prophet reminded us in another thread, ONE leader sharing his thoughts on a topic does not doctrine make.   Pres. Kimball wrote this in a book, it's not something he said in General Conference and it's not confirmed by other leaders.  For me that leaves the subject open.  Of course, Pres. Kimball's words carry weight, but by themselves they are not doctrine. 

This quote was shared and taught in manuals put out from the Church. It is doctrine. It is truth. Search "soul mates" on lds.org and see what it comes up with here: https://www.lds.org/search?lang=eng&query=soul+mates

President Uchtdorf, "The short answer is no, not really. Even though you may feel especially connected to someone of the opposite sex right now, the true bond between a man and woman comes only after they’ve committed to marry one another and decided to work at it. President Dieter F. Uchtdorf, Second Counselor in the First Presidency, has said, “I don’t believe there is only one right person for you. I think I fell in love with my wife, Harriet, from the first moment I saw her. Nevertheless, … I don’t believe she was my one chance at happiness in this life, nor was I hers. …" (emphasis added)

There have been plenty of articles on the subject of "soul mates" put out by the Church and in Church manuals, even the Teaching of Spencer W. Kimball manual we used in Sunday School: Here.

It was taught and continues to be taught through Church manuals, and other Church leaders, quoting President Kimball.

 

 

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Thanks Anddenex. You are right.

I looked briefly at a couple sources. I believe I understand the concern of Pres. Kimball and Elder Uctdorf. I agree that we shouldnt wait around for our soul mate. And that we shouldn't look for someone perfect for sure. I think most people could marry pretty much any reasonable righteous person and make it work. 

I don't think that "soul mate" really refers to what I am thinking of. I know that sounds like splitting hairs because I don't want to admit being wrong. Thats okay, I would certainly see it that way if our roles were reversed. Still I think there are some cases where people are "contracted", maybe because of their mission. I would guess it's rare. I just know it has happened. 

Naturally though I would never teach my ideas and experiences as in a class. I would stick with the manual, if that helps. 

This reminds me of "Nephi's Sunday School teacher"....imagine if when Nephi had the sword raised about to kill Laban, his Sunday School teacher had come along and said, "No Nephi, murder is wrong, all the prophets have said so." And Nephi would say the Spirit told him to do it...and the teacher would tell him that surely he misread the spirit . . . and so on.

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1 hour ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I don't think that "soul mate" really refers to what I am thinking of. I know that sounds like splitting hairs because I don't want to admit being wrong. Thats okay,

I actually agree with your first posts. I see nothing wrong with the idea that we might have a special connection, familial or otherwise, to another person. The Church's teaching against so-called "soul mates" appears to be a reaction to what used to be a distressingly common meme among many LDS young adults, which basically mirrored (or was mirrored by) the Saturday's Warrior idea that has been referenced here. There was nothing wrong or evil or false about that idea per se, but it led to young men and women searching and waiting for "the one", as if the heavens would open and trumpets blare in declaration of the finding of their beloved. This sort of thing is harmful, and I believe is what the Church was trying to warn people against.

I was always the person who pooh-poohed the idea of "finding your one and only". I had a very rationalistic (perhaps mechanistic) view of such things, though the romantic in me loved the idea. But I didn't believe it, and even spoke out against such foolishness. Until it happened to me, that is.

I do not believe my experience is representative, But I do believe my experience was real. It wasn't just me, it was her. And it was strong, a real feeling of recognition, comfortableness, and affection almost from our first meeting. I wish I could say that such feelings meant that our marriage has been smooth sailing all the way. Nothing of the sort. We have the same problems with selfishness and stupidity that I imagine every other couple has in marriage. I imagine we have had to work just as hard as anyone else, and maybe harder than some. But that does not change the reality of our early dating experiences.

What was the precise nature of our premortal lives? We do not know. But is it so hard to believe we lived as families -- real families, not just "practice" families, as if we lived in something resembling BYU FHE groups? Who says that real families start only in mortality? We don't believe that. How could we not have lived in families premortally, given that families are the fundamental unit of God's plan?

Anyway, I'm not trying to promote some new or weird doctrine, or suggest that we view Saturday's Warrior as doctrinal canon. But in rejecting the idea that we should wait for our "one and only", let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. I do not know either the nature or the genesis of the feelings I experienced in meeting and getting to know my future wife, but I see no reason to discount the possibility of some cause rooted in premortality.

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On 6/24/2016 at 3:40 PM, Awakened said:

I think it's safe to say, we all laughed at this line in The Single's Ward. But... Here's the thing. Can this actually happen? Is this really legit? Have people met their partner in the pre-existence and promised each other that they would meet?

I ask because... I have a very strange yet persistent feeling inside me that this is true. But my feelings have been wrong before of course.

Of course, but both parties must arrive at and share the same memory/witness in this life in order for things to proceed happily, or at least accept and respect their differences!

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5 hours ago, Vort said:

I was always the person who pooh-poohed the idea of "finding your one and only". I had a very rationalistic (perhaps mechanistic) view of such things, though the romantic in me loved the idea. But I didn't believe it, and even spoke out against such foolishness. Until it happened to me, that is.

I do not believe my experience is representative...

I think it is fairly common, hence the saying... But it is something that everyone that has shared this experience with me (including my wife and me!) has unexpectedly discovered and realized rather than taken as the convention.

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On 25 de junho de 2016 at 11:31 AM, Anddenex said:

We do know, as President Spencer W. Kimball has said, "Soul mates' are fiction and an illusion; ... it is certain that almost any good man and any good woman can have happiness and a successful marriage." The promise of meeting our mates, coined "soul mate," in our pre-mortal life is fiction an illusion.

The idea of meeting our current spouse wouldn't be fiction. We knew many of our spiritual brothers and sisters before coming here.

I really appreciated your comment. 

When you say WE it includes all of us. 

What I myself know is that we met worthy men and women in the premortal life and, with this knowledge, I assume that any of these valiant spirits are worthy getting married with.

Thatnx for sharing your thoughts.

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On June 25, 2016 at 10:43 AM, LiterateParakeet said:

I don't think that "soul mate" really refers to what I am thinking of. I know that sounds like splitting hairs because I don't want to admit being wrong. Thats okay, I would certainly see it that way if our roles were reversed. Still I think there are some cases where people are "contracted", maybe because of their mission. I would guess it's rare. I just know it has happened. 

LP, I am going to quote myself from my opening first paragraph as we have similar thoughts, "As to the first question regarding "[promising] each other that they would meet" doesn't appear to be inline with any doctrine (at least to the majority of God's spiritual heirs). Now, could we have known each other -- yes, for sure! What about Joseph Smith? I wouldn't be surprised if this was true for Emma and Joseph. Adam met Eve before they were spiritually organized in the Garden of Eden, did they make any promise? We don't know." Post here.

1) Majority -- The majority, and when I think of majority, I am thinking of 99.9999999998% (if not more, just throwing out a random number) wouldn't have such an experience. Factors that appear would determine such, 1) God's will 2) Personal righteousness and worthiness 3) Foreordination.  I wouldn't, again, be surprised if in the case of Emma and Joseph there was connection in our pre-mortal existence; however, I do not believe it would have been between them solely (a promise made to Emma from Joseph and vice-versa) -- God would have been involved. These would be similar to any foreordination, determined by personal righteousness and worthiness. The concept as in the OP ("promised each other that they would meet") a personal promise -- highly unlikely (although I agree with TFP and Vort, the romantic in me loves the idea). 

2) Familiarity -- True. We definitely knew people now that we knew in our pre-mortal life. I was given a blessing from a very spiritual man. I would say, in scripture the term "friend" he was indeed God's friend, as I am still trying to reach such. After the blessing, he had tears in his eyes, and then said, "Elder, I knew you in the pre-mortal life." I thought, "Yes, well we probably new others before we were born." He sensed my doubt (so to speak), and then said, "No, I knew you, otherwise I would not have had the spirit of prophecy and revelation as I just did unless I knew you." I have been intrigued since this blessing and have sought for doctrinal points and how knowing someone might influence the spirit even greater. The point being, we definitely knew people. I probably knew my wife, as to the depth of our connection is the question though. I have had deep spiritual impressions with "male friends" and that we were friends in the pre-mortal life, this doesn't mean I made any promise we would meet in this life. I have had this deep impression with "female friends." True, we were familiar with people, the depth is unknown. A promise made to someone, in light of the thought of "honoring God's will" appears far fetched, but refer back to #1 (in light of God's will).

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