rpframe Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I know that most of us grew up indoctrinated with the term "pre-existence".. but it is really a terribly confusing abbreviation of pre-earthly-existence.. Like.. just think about the phrase for a second... "What do you mean by.. before I existed?". Anyway.. I feel like its just poor word choice that I chose a long time ago to remove from my vocabulary. And while I'd love to have it eradicated from existence... know that I can't and/or shouldn't try to convince others to do the same. So.. just mostly planting a seed of thought for people that have never thought about it that way. Other options include: Pre-mortal life Pre-earth life I don't know if any general authority ever said anything about it.. but.. at worst its just a personal prerogative of mine that I hold alongside things like trying to use the phrase "Moral Agency" rather than "Free Agency" (courtesy of Elder Christopherson). Mostly I just find it helpful when talking to friends of other faiths. And while I know most of us know what we mean by "pre-existence"... never know who's watching on the intarwebz And I also know that its not just a Mormon thing.. (heck.. there's even a wikipedia article for pre-existence)... But.. it just rubs me the wrong way.. similarly to things like "I could care less". Anyone else feel this way? Or just me? Sunday21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedleinA Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 6 minutes ago, rpframe said: "pre-existence" Anyone else feel this way? Or just me? I had not thought about this term before like this, however, I have heard plenty of discussion about the free agency bit. Many folks getting upset that "it wasn't free you know!" yikes. My little ears tend to notice priesthood blessing that are done by the "power" of the priesthood vs. the "authority" of the priesthood. Funny how we all kind of pick up on different things. Sunday21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 5 hours ago, rpframe said: I know that most of us grew up indoctrinated with the term "pre-existence".. but it is really a terribly confusing abbreviation of pre-earthly-existence.. Like.. just think about the phrase for a second... "What do you mean by.. before I existed?". Anyway.. I feel like its just poor word choice that I chose a long time ago to remove from my vocabulary. And while I'd love to have it eradicated from existence... know that I can't and/or shouldn't try to convince others to do the same. So.. just mostly planting a seed of thought for people that have never thought about it that way. Other options include: Pre-mortal life Pre-earth life I don't know if any general authority ever said anything about it.. but.. at worst its just a personal prerogative of mine that I hold alongside things like trying to use the phrase "Moral Agency" rather than "Free Agency" (courtesy of Elder Christopherson). Mostly I just find it helpful when talking to friends of other faiths. And while I know most of us know what we mean by "pre-existence"... never know who's watching on the intarwebz And I also know that its not just a Mormon thing.. (heck.. there's even a wikipedia article for pre-existence)... But.. it just rubs me the wrong way.. similarly to things like "I could care less". Anyone else feel this way? Or just me? Well ya darnit... You tryin ta teach us rednecks proper english?? Outside lds circles in general christiandom i doubt theyll take a shining to either term... Sunday21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpframe Posted June 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 7 minutes ago, Blackmarch said: Well ya darnit... You tryin ta teach us rednecks proper english?? More like.. specificity of language Sunday21 and Blackmarch 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 "Referring". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 7 hours ago, rpframe said: I know that most of us grew up indoctrinated with the term "pre-existence".. but it is really a terribly confusing abbreviation of pre-earthly-existence..."What do you mean by.. before I existed?". I don't know if any general authority ever said anything about it.. but.. at worst its just a personal prerogative of mine that I hold alongside things like trying to use the phrase "Moral Agency" rather than "Free Agency" (courtesy of Elder Christopherson). I prefer "pre-mortal life/existence." As pertaining to "moral agency", moral agency is the correct terminology of the agency God has given us. The term, unless I have misunderstood, "moral agency" is not given to us by Elder Christopherson. This terminology is given to us by the Lord through Joseph Smith (back in 1833) as given here, (Doctrine and Covenants 1010: 78) "That every man may act in doctrine and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral agency which I have given unto him, that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgement" (emphasis added). When we use the phrase "moral agency" it shows we have a better understanding of the agency and accountability we have before God. Other articles which used the term long before Elder Christopherson's talk 'Moral Agency." 1) Our Moral Agency -- https://www.lds.org/ensign/1996/03/our-moral-agency?lang=eng 2) Teaching of President John Taylor -- "Man has a moral agency; acting under the Lord, and is, consequently, responsible to hime for his acts, as a moral agent." 3) Address at CES 1997 -- To invite with "Will you?" evokes a yes or no answer, which is an exercise of a person's moral agency. 4) James E. Faust -- "Honesty is a principle, and we have our moral agency to determine how we will apply this principle." 5) Before Elder Christopherson was an Apostle Elder Bednar would refer to our agency as it is specified in scripture, "moral agency." 6) Elder Packer, “We are free to obey or to ignore the spirit and the letter of the law. But the agency granted to man is a moral agency (see D&C 101:78). We are not free to break our covenants and escape the consequences” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1990, 108; or Ensign, Nov. 1990, 84). I believe there is irony in posting the proper use of doctrine for one statement "pre-mortal existence" while having a personal dislike toward another proper use of doctrine "moral agency." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 On 6/24/2016 at 6:11 PM, rpframe said: Anyone else feel this way? Or just me? Well, you might want to fix the title of this thread "Moral"??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpframe Posted June 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Oops... fixed the title haha. On 6/25/2016 at 0:55 AM, Anddenex said: The term, unless I have misunderstood, "moral agency" is not given to us by Elder Christopherson. Never said he was the first one to use it. He was just the first one that spelled it out for me: "When we use the term moral agency, we are appropriately emphasizing the accountability that is an essential part of the divine gift of agency. " Edspringer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 On 6/24/2016 at 5:11 PM, rpframe said: I know that most of us grew up indoctrinated with the term "pre-existence".. but it is really a terribly confusing abbreviation of pre-earthly-existence.. Like.. just think about the phrase for a second... "What do you mean by.. before I existed?". Anyway.. I feel like its just poor word choice that I chose a long time ago to remove from my vocabulary. And while I'd love to have it eradicated from existence... know that I can't and/or shouldn't try to convince others to do the same. So.. just mostly planting a seed of thought for people that have never thought about it that way. Other options include: Pre-mortal life Pre-earth life I don't know if any general authority ever said anything about it.. but.. at worst its just a personal prerogative of mine that I hold alongside things like trying to use the phrase "Moral Agency" rather than "Free Agency" (courtesy of Elder Christopherson). Mostly I just find it helpful when talking to friends of other faiths. And while I know most of us know what we mean by "pre-existence"... never know who's watching on the intarwebz And I also know that its not just a Mormon thing.. (heck.. there's even a wikipedia article for pre-existence)... But.. it just rubs me the wrong way.. similarly to things like "I could care less". Anyone else feel this way? Or just me? I want to discuss the "I could care less" thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpframe Posted June 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 On 6/27/2016 at 4:33 PM, The Folk Prophet said: I want to discuss the "I could care less" thing. What about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 17 hours ago, rpframe said: What about it? Haha. Just that I could care less about it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpframe Posted July 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 On 7/1/2016 at 7:29 AM, The Folk Prophet said: Haha. Just that I could care less about it!! /facepalm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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