Accepting Pedophilia: Is it going to happen?

[The Folk Prophet]

But what a sick, disgusting, horrible world we live in where conditions are ripe to create pedophiles for which I must feel admiration.

And some have argued that the world is no worse than it's ever been. Phooey on that!

[estradling75]

3 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

But what a sick, disgusting, horrible world we live in where conditions are ripe to create pedophiles for which I must feel admiration.

And some have argued that the world is no worse than it's ever been. Phooey on that!

Is that how you want God to feel about you?

The scriptures are clear that God can't stand sin...  So it is safe to assume he feels to all sin similar to the way you (and many of the rest of us) feel about pedophiles.

Do we not want God to be happy and pleased when we resist whatever our favorite sin is?  Do we want him to do so grudgingly?

Learning how to balance the need to "hate the sin" while "loving the sinner" (including rejoicing when they resist temptation) is a challenge for all of us... but it is a God-like quality

[Guest MormonGator]

7 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

 

Learning how to balance the need to "hate the sin" while "loving the sinner" (including rejoicing when they resist temptation) is a challenge for all of us... but it is a God-like quality

AMEN. 

 

[The Folk Prophet]

2 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Is that how you want God to feel about you?

The scriptures are clear that God can't stand sin...  So it is safe to assume he feels to all sin similar to the way you (and many of the rest of us) feel about pedophiles.

Do we not want God to be happy and pleased when we resist whatever our favorite sin is?  Do we want him to do so grudgingly?

Learning how to balance the need to "hate the sin" while "loving the sinner" (including rejoicing when they resist temptation) is a challenge for all of us... but it is a God-like quality

Let me be very clear. I consider the having of sexual desires toward children to be an imperfection (and a might serious one) that God would not be pleased with in the least, acted upon or not, and although one might be strapped with said weakness for one's life, such imperfections must be overcome before one can qualify for perfection and thereby enter their Celestial Glory. I would hope that everyone sees it the same.

Accordingly, and once again: Yes, I am pleased when the angry man does not murder another. That has nothing to do with my not being pleased at the fact that he's angry .

I am pleased when a pedophile does not act on it. Yes. (Though that is, to be fair, different than "admiration"). But that doesn't mean I am okay with the fact that said person has the drive in the first place, nor do I believe is God.

I simply do not buy into the fact that it's okay to have evil desires even if one does not act upon it. And, once more as well, it's relative. Not acting on it is, indeed, relatively better than acting on it.

And for me to hate the sin but love the sinner requires no admiration whatsoever. In point of fact, I don't recall any commandment anywhere that requires me to admire my fellow man at all.

[The Folk Prophet]

14 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Is that how you want God to feel about you?

The scriptures are clear that God can't stand sin...  So it is safe to assume he feels to all sin similar to the way you (and many of the rest of us) feel about pedophiles.

Do we not want God to be happy and pleased when we resist whatever our favorite sin is?  Do we want him to do so grudgingly?

Learning how to balance the need to "hate the sin" while "loving the sinner" (including rejoicing when they resist temptation) is a challenge for all of us... but it is a God-like quality

Moreover....as your post here is in reply to the post it was, I think maybe you miss my point. I am lamenting the fact that the world is filled with thing such as abuse and pornography so as to actually create victims who potentially have such tendencies as pedophilia through no fault of their own. That is a sad commentary on the state of the world. Do you not agree?

[estradling75]

10 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I simply do not buy into the fact that it's okay to have evil desires even if one does not act upon it.

Who on this forum ever said it was OK????

 

[SpiritDragon]

48 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I simply do not buy into the fact that it's okay to have evil desires even if one does not act upon it. And, once more as well, it's relative. Not acting on it is, indeed, relatively better than acting on it.

I can also agree with this point. Perhaps it gets into one of those questions of terminology. for instance is being attracted to adult women as an adult male an evil desire - I think it is a natural consequence of a healthy mind and body. However desiring to sleep with your neighbour's wife who you're also attracted to is perhaps where the line is drawn beyond simply noticing she's attractive. Now I personally don't want to accept pedophilia as something that needs to be taught in sex ed to 7 year olds as an alternate preference blah blah... but if a man is attracted to children does that automatically equate to an evil desire - I would contend that it does not, but the line is likely fine as to when/where it becomes so.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, estradling75 said:

Who on this forum ever said it was OK????

 

 

Who said that someone said it was OK? Does someone have to say something before I can express a view on a matter? Is the only valid form of communication a contradiction or agreement with another?

Edited June 28, 2016 by The Folk Prophet

[Blackmarch]

23 hours ago, SpiritDragon said:

I know that some in these forums have expressed concerns in the past that by opening the gates to accepting homosexuality and legitimizing marriages to cater to this perversion that it is only a matter of time before an irreversible tide of non-traditional marriages and sexual perversions almost by default will become accepted as well.

I stumbled upon this article which outlines what the author believes to be steps being taken to help pedophilia gain mainstream acceptance. I also wanted to do a forum search to see that this hasn't been a recent discussion. I see that @Bini brought up a similar topic of discussion five years ago with this link.

Anyhow I thought I'd ask if anyone thinks that just as homosexuality has gone from being deplorable and taboo to they can do what they want... to every city in the Western world holds celebrations of this "lifestyle" that pedophilia will indeed one day be seen as simply another sexual orientation. It's a little creepy to think that a self-professed pedophile might be allowed to work with my children because we shouldn't discriminate against anyone because of sexual preference (keeping in mind that for now anyway - it is illegal to act on pedophilic urges, but not illegal to be sexually attracted to children, as long as this "preference" is always repressed and never acted on.)

I think its only a matter of time... Unless we start nuking each other before then.... Which isnt totally unreasonable either.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Blackmarch

[Budget]

On 6/27/2016 at 7:35 AM, Carborendum said:

@SpiritDragon

It's already happening.  I can't remember which state, I believe it was California, had a required reading list including writings that were basically NAMBLA type indoctrination.  It's just a question of time before it gains mainstream acceptance.

I remember reading about this as well (a couple years ago I think).

I am also thinking that as Muslim culture comes to be more accepted in America the child-bride issue (accepted and justified pedophilia) comes with it.

[prisonchaplain]

On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 5:34 AM, The Folk Prophet said:

I find this statement.......odd.

All things being relative, yes, controlling it is more admirable than not controlling it. But that's only relative. I struggle with the concept that anything about corruption and perversion is "admirable" (like I said, all things being relative).

I find this objection odd.  What a horrific cross to bare! Imagine being attracted to children! Shame...guilt...self-loathing. If the attraction is severe, the only option is celibacy. To admit that the desire is indeed perverse, and to engage in a daily struggle to maintain sanity, godly productivity, and to deny that flesh physically and psychologically--and spiritually . . . How can we NOT admire the one who successfully lives out each day in a manner that is chaste, righteous, and intent on God's kingdom?

Our nature is corrupt, so when I see such a one, I cannot help but think, "There, but for the grace of God, go I."

[prisonchaplain]

On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 7:42 AM, The Folk Prophet said:

I understand that. I'm saying that the idea of associating any level of admiration with certain types of evil doesn't resound with me. ... If I take it a bit closer to home I might say the same of those who have overcome pornography (something both JaG and I have had past trials with). I do not feel there is anything admirable about my overcoming those things. I admire those who have never gotten entrenched in the first place.

 

I seldom start posts with "I believe..." but it is necessary on this topic.  I believe that most pedophiles suffer an attraction that they did not learn. In other words they were born with the predisposition. Part of the curse that came out of the Garden of Eden is that nature became corrupt. If I am correct, and the pedophile just started seeing children as sexually attractive (as opposed to the volitional act of looking at pornography), and they resist that temptation, through spiritual disciplines, through seeking psychological support, and through godly will power, then is that not ADMIRABLE?

Edited June 28, 2016 by prisonchaplain
typos and clarification

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I seldom start posts with "I believer..." but it is necessary on this topic.  I believe that most pedophiles suffer an attraction that they did not learn. In other words they were born with the predisposition. Part of the curse that came out of the Garden of Eden is that nature became corrupt. If I am correct, and the pedophile just started seeing children as sexually attractive, and the resist that temptation, through spiritual disciplines, through seeking psychological support, and through godly will power, then is that not ADMIRABLE?

I believe this is really about the use of the word "admirable".  I'd call attention to a scene in the movie "Quiz Show".

Charles Van Doren finally came clean about his cheating at the game show.  He did so in humility and true sorrow.  He worded his confession and apology as eloquently as anyone would expect from a person "of his education and breeding".

Many on the Congressional committee thanked him and complimented him for making such a heart-felt confession and apology.  There was an outpouring of compassion and admiration.  

One man dissented.

Quote

Congressman Derounian: I'm happy that you've made the statement. But I cannot agree with most of my colleagues. See, I don't think an adult of your intelligence should be commended for simply, at long last, telling the truth.

I'm also reminded of another show where a man was willing to stick by his friends through thick and thin.  No matter what they did, if they just went to him for help, he'd give it to them.  Gradually, all the friends around him revealed all sorts of shortcomings and weaknesses.  And he helped all of them until one day he found out that one friend had kidnapped some children and were using them for nefarious purposes.

He walked away.

There was a point where even his generosity would not extend.

Jesus said," But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Guest

[prisonchaplain]

It is not admirable to simply resist doing something that should not be done.  On the other hand, when one faces a temptation that is un-chosen, and that assails that one physically, psychologically--sexually--and that person RESISTS the powerful temptation, and manages to live a righteous life, and glorify God, in spite of the horrific, monstrous sin that seeks to destroy--THAT IS ADMIRABLE.

[estradling75]

5 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I believe this is really about the use of the word "admirable".  I'd call attention to a scene in the movie "Quiz Show".

 

It is about the word "admirable"  But it is also about someone facing an unusual and powerful temptation and blocking it...

For example...  Normally it is not "admirable" for someone not to murder someone else...  Refraining from murder is just what is expected that normal and mentally healthy adult should do.  But lets say I am not normal or mentally healthy... Lets say I have a "need" that borders on pathological to kill people.  Understandably this would make me a scary individual to be around.  And people would need to take precautions around me.   If I fight the temptation and take whatever steps I needed to do to never act on it....  The fact that I make it up to the normal standard is not what make it "admirable"  it is the fact that I did spend so much time and effort to get there and did not take the easier route that is "admirable" 

[The Folk Prophet]

No. It's just about the word.

The discussion has been enlightening and I see the issue from the p.o.v.s expressed and find validity therein. I still tend towards rejecting the word "admirable", but in the way it has been presented, I can even buy off on that...and I acquiesced the matter too.

[Guest]

Here's a word of caution to all.

The very fact that we are asked to "judge not", to forgive, to offer a hand to those in need... and to even find the "admirable" nature of fighting the temptation of such a perverse desire, and saying that church is a hospital for sinners is also the bludgeon that has been used to bring us to the undesirable state we are in with regard to gay marriage and transgender issues.

Wouldn't it be tragic if those same attitudes that are being touted here are also used to bring pedophilia mainstream?

 

Edited June 28, 2016 by Guest

[The Folk Prophet]

5 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Here's a word of caution to all.

The very fact that we are asked to "judge not", to forgive, to offer a hand to those in need... and to even find the "admirable" nature of fighting the temptation of such a perverse desire, and saying that church is a hospital for sinners is also the bludgeon that has been used to bring us to the undesirable state we are in with regard to gay marriage and transgender issues.

Wouldn't it be tragic if those same attitudes that are being touted here are also used to bring pedophilia mainstream?

 

That does seem to be the way of it with homosexuality. So seems likely.

Interesting thought, btw. Maybe partially at the core of my senses about the matter.

[estradling75]

14 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Here's a word of caution to all.

The very fact that we are asked to "judge not", to forgive, to offer a hand to those in need... and to even find the "admirable" nature of fighting the temptation of such a perverse desire, and saying that church is a hospital for sinners is also the bludgeon that has been used to bring us to the undesirable state we are in with regard to gay marriage and transgender issues.

Wouldn't it be tragic if those same attitudes that are being touted here are also used to bring pedophilia mainstream?

 

except there is a world of difference in supporting someone resisting sin.... and celebrating when they stop fighting and embrace the sin

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

except there is a world of difference in supporting someone resisting sin.... and celebrating when they stop fighting and embrace the sin

The reason we're in the predicament we're in is because most people can't discern that difference.

[estradling75]

5 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

The reason we're in the predicament we're in is because most people can't discern that difference.

Which changes precisely nothing on what kind of behavior and actions Christ expects of his followers in regards to sinners, and sin

[prisonchaplain]

55 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Here's a word of caution to all.

The very fact that we are asked to "judge not", to forgive, to offer a hand to those in need... and to even find the "admirable" nature of fighting the temptation of such a perverse desire, and saying that church is a hospital for sinners is also the bludgeon that has been used to bring us to the undesirable state we are in with regard to gay marriage and transgender issues.

Wouldn't it be tragic if those same attitudes that are being touted here are also used to bring pedophilia mainstream?

 

And yet, we are not to judge hypocritically. We are to "celebrate recovery," with those winning the battle against sinful temptations. The church is a hospital for sinners struggling towards sainthood. None of that is an endorsement of sin.  LOVE THE SINNER, HATE THE SIN. Easy to say, hard to practice. Yet, we are adults. So, everytimes someone says, "Love the sinner," our answer should not be, "NO! We are to hate the sin." Likewise, every time we are reminded to hate the sin, we should not knee-jerk back, "No, love the sinner!"  Christian maturity would not be precious if it were easy.

[Guest]

I'm not arguing with anyone who wants to put their hand out towards the sinner, especially knowing that we are all sinners.

I'm just making the obvious (to me) prediction that these very same commandments we've been given will be used to bring about pedophilia into the mainstream.  I'd really like to hear how that prediction is flawed because I truly hope I'm wrong.

[prisonchaplain]

Why pedophilia might not go mainstream for awhile: It is perceived to victimize females. Campus hedonism is even under a cloud, because the government has strong-armed universities into assuming that accusers are victims, and defendants are assailants (especially if the former is female). So, unless pedophiles can convince the cultural elites that their agenda would not hurt or coerce little girls, they may be a long way from acceptance.

[SpiritDragon]

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Here's a word of caution to all.

The very fact that we are asked to "judge not", to forgive, to offer a hand to those in need... and to even find the "admirable" nature of fighting the temptation of such a perverse desire, and saying that church is a hospital for sinners is also the bludgeon that has been used to bring us to the undesirable state we are in with regard to gay marriage and transgender issues.

Wouldn't it be tragic if those same attitudes that are being touted here are also used to bring pedophilia mainstream?

 

Sadly I must say that the fact that I can empathize with the person afflicted with pedophilia - seems a huge step toward admitting defeat (accepting it). Now to be clear I don't accept the action, but I do accept that we all have different struggles and temptations to overcome and for some this may unfortunately involve attraction to children. I think if pedophilia is ever embraced in the same way that society has embraced other sexual sin that we'll truly be ripe in iniquity.

3 hours ago, estradling75 said:

except there is a world of difference in supporting someone resisting sin.... and celebrating when they stop fighting and embrace the sin

 

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

The reason we're in the predicament we're in is because most people can't discern that difference.

Simply by following the path of not seeing a pedophile as a monster, but a human with struggles (the way I believe the Saviour sees us all) does indeed seem to be a stepping stone toward having Christ-like empathy and love, while also easily being used as Satan's counterfeit to promote his evil agendas. Satan's counterfeit being that people lack the agency to rise above the tendencies of the natural man. Now to a great extend none of us actually do have the strength to rise above our sins, we need God's grace - the enabling power of the atonement - to overcome sins.

There is no doubt that when Satan can take a beautiful truth and distort it into an ugly fallacy (with a seemingly beautiful veneer) and get it to be accepted as the truth he will always look to do so. We certainly live in the days when good will be called evil and evil good. The master of lies has done well to deceive the masses. It's particularly sad when even those who should know better champion the cause of Satan in the name of compassion and love. The fact is when my daughter likes to do something that is injurious to her physically, emotionally, or spiritually I fail to show love by allowing her to take the path of least resistance and just do it because she naturally likes it. I show love by teaching her she can be and do more by overcoming certain weaknesses.