Sustaining those called to serve

[pam]

Something interesting I read in a discussion in another group.  The topic was actually about whether we raise our hand to sustain those called to serve when we are visiting a ward that is not our own.

This I found on lds.org:

What does it mean to sustain my Church leaders?
As members of the Church, we have the opportunity to sustain those the Lord has called to serve. We raise our hand to indicate that we sustain the General Authorities and officers of the Church and each of the leaders in our wards and stakes—including Young Women class presidencies. Sustaining leaders involves more than just a raised hand—it means that we stand behind them, pray for them, accept assignments and callings from them, obey their counsel, and refrain from criticizing them. 

 

What I found interesting was the last 4 words.  Refrain from criticizing them.  How often do we see this happening?  Quite a bit.  Yet we raised our hand to sustain them.

 

 

[Just_A_Guy]

Link?

[pam]

https://www.lds.org/youth/learn/yw/priesthood-keys/honor?lang=eng

I found it in the YW unit section but it applies to all not just to YW.

 

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, pam said:

Something interesting I read in a discussion in another group.  The topic was actually about whether we raise our hand to sustain those called to serve when we are visiting a ward that is not our own.

This I found on lds.org:

What does it mean to sustain my Church leaders?
As members of the Church, we have the opportunity to sustain those the Lord has called to serve. We raise our hand to indicate that we sustain the General Authorities and officers of the Church and each of the leaders in our wards and stakes—including Young Women class presidencies. Sustaining leaders involves more than just a raised hand—it means that we stand behind them, pray for them, accept assignments and callings from them, obey their counsel, and refrain from criticizing them. 

 

What I found interesting was the last 4 words.  Refrain from criticizing them.  How often do we see this happening?  Quite a bit.  Yet we raised our hand to sustain them.

 

 

 

Pam – it is my personal belief that sustaining our leaders is related to the covenant to not speak evil of the L-rd’s anointed.  I believe that to sustain someone then to speak evil (criticize) before others is a grievous sin.  I do not believe this means that we must sit quietly or pretend to not disapprove.  But that first we take our concern directly to the individual and if we are unable to resolve the conflict then we should take the matter to the priesthood holder that holds the keys to settle the conflict.   

I would add one caveat to this procedure – that is a lady that has been offended by brethren that hold the priesthood (or in some cases by any man depending on the offense).  In such cases I would recommend that another sister of trust and position be involved – such as a Relief Society President or even a young woman leader that serves in regards to this sister.   Regardless the offence should be presented to those in authority and not generally to the community.

 

The Traveler

[Blackmarch]

To criticise is to oppose something. So yes it is a rebellion in words, having past the point of rebellion in thought.. And if not checked eventually leads to rebellion in action.

[priesthoodpower]

Is that why the CIA love hiring mormons, because we dont criticise and are very obedient and compliant?

....no matter what terrible and unethical things the CIA may be involved with!

Edited June 28, 2016 by priesthoodpower

[Edspringer]

16 hours ago, pam said:

Something interesting I read in a discussion in another group.  The topic was actually about whether we raise our hand to sustain those called to serve when we are visiting a ward that is not our own.

This I found on lds.org:

What does it mean to sustain my Church leaders?
As members of the Church, we have the opportunity to sustain those the Lord has called to serve. We raise our hand to indicate that we sustain the General Authorities and officers of the Church and each of the leaders in our wards and stakes—including Young Women class presidencies. Sustaining leaders involves more than just a raised hand—it means that we stand behind them, pray for them, accept assignments and callings from them, obey their counsel, and refrain from criticizing them. 

 

What I found interesting was the last 4 words.  Refrain from criticizing them.  How often do we see this happening?  Quite a bit.  Yet we raised our hand to sustain them.

 

 

Something that bothers me whenever someone is called to serve in the Church is when a brother or a sister comes and says: "Congratulations". Like, we know it's an honor to serve, but it's not an achievement or a prize anyway. 

We must also remember that we made covenants in the temple, including avoiding calumnies against the Lord's anoited ones.

[CmdrQuandry]

31 minutes ago, Edspringer said:

Something that bothers me whenever someone is called to serve in the Church is when a brother or a sister comes and says: "Congratulations". Like, we know it's an honor to serve, but it's not an achievement or a prize anyway. 

We must also remember that we made covenants in the temple, including avoiding calumnies against the Lord's anoited ones.

I agree. I was thinking about this recently. What has anyone done, to be congratulated for, when they just received a new calling. By all means thank them personally for the calling they were just released from, and for the good work they did in that calling. But other than be worthy and willing receiving a calling is just a start.

[Blackmarch]

18 hours ago, priesthoodpower said:

Is that why the CIA love hiring mormons, because we dont criticise and are very obedient and compliant?

....no matter what terrible and unethical things the CIA may be involved with!

Let not your left hand know what the right is doing?

[David13]

I was visiting in the Manti 6th ward this week and I raised my hand to sustain everyone that they mentioned.  My intention is to move into this ward, then it would be my ward, if that makes a difference.

Now they said the same as sometimes others say, "those who may or who can sustain" ...

What they mean by that?  Am I authorized, or what?

I've only been in the church a little over a year and the first week the missionaries said you can raise your hand, go ahead.  So I guess they authorized me.  However, I don't know if that authority is good out of town or not.

I will act as if it is.

dc

[Edspringer]

5 hours ago, David13 said:

I was visiting in the Manti 6th ward this week and I raised my hand to sustain everyone that they mentioned.  My intention is to move into this ward, then it would be my ward, if that makes a difference.

Now they said the same as sometimes others say, "those who may or who can sustain" ...

What they mean by that?  Am I authorized, or what?

I've only been in the church a little over a year and the first week the missionaries said you can raise your hand, go ahead.  So I guess they authorized me.  However, I don't know if that authority is good out of town or not.

I will act as if it is.

dc

Interesting, DC

As a member of the Church you're authorized to raise your hand in a sustaining vote as long as you are worthy to do so. I say this because in some cases, after some disciplinary action, the bishop or stake president may ask the person not to participate in sustaining votes for a season.

So if you have been living a worthy life and your bishop hasnt said otherwise, you're ok to sustain the ward or stake members when it's so asked. 

[The Folk Prophet]

I'm pretty sure they excommunicate people who sustain someone they're not meant to.

@David13 I'm sure you'll be getting a call from your bishop any day now. 

 

 

In case it isn't clear what I'm getting at... sustain away people. No one cares.   Unless you accidentally find yourself at an assembly for the Church of Satan, in which case you should probably keep your hand firmly at your side.

[Vort]

Are we not all the anointed of the Lord, at least those of us who are endowed? Is unkindness and a critical attitude toward each other a violation of those important covenants to avoid evil speaking of the Lord's anointed? I cringe when I think of some of the things I have written on this very forum, and I wonder if my actions in such cases constitute an explicit violation of my temple covenants.

[Guest]

That's a pretty sober thought, Vort. (With my finger pointed at myself, not you.)

[Traveler]

28 minutes ago, Vort said:

Are we not all the anointed of the Lord, at least those of us who are endowed? Is unkindness and a critical attitude toward each other a violation of those important covenants to avoid evil speaking of the Lord's anointed? I cringe when I think of some of the things I have written on this very forum, and I wonder if my actions in such cases constitute an explicit violation of my temple covenants.

 

Well said - one of the most difficult repentance for me is admitting the ire I have caused when I thought at the time that it was warranted.   But then I have a son that does not understand how this could be a problem for anyone.  He is sincerely sorry and then moves on and forgets the whole thing.  I admire those like you that can make such an observation.  I think that such is a greater display of intelligence and goodness than it is to never say anything to cringe about.

[tesuji]

On 6/28/2016 at 6:17 AM, Edspringer said:

Something that bothers me whenever someone is called to serve in the Church is when a brother or a sister comes and says: "Congratulations". Like, we know it's an honor to serve, but it's not an achievement or a prize anyway. 

I always say, "Congratulations and condolences" to people who are called to church leadership postions

“In the work of the Lord, we don’t seek positions, nor should we refuse the opportunity to serve when called.” - Elder Robert L. Simpson

Edited June 29, 2016 by tesuji

[tesuji]

On 6/28/2016 at 2:54 AM, priesthoodpower said:

Is that why the CIA love hiring mormons, because we dont criticise and are very obedient and compliant?

....no matter what terrible and unethical things the CIA may be involved with!

Feels like you're trolling here...

But this does raise a valid question. When should we as Mormons apply the teaching regarding authority figures that was given in the OP, to "obey their counsel, and refrain from criticizing them"? The answer is when the leader is called by priesthood authority in the church.

Faith is the first principle of our church. Specifically, faith in Jesus Christ. I think part of that is having faith that Christ is leading his church, and faith (trust) in the leaders who get called.

Edited June 29, 2016 by tesuji

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

Are we not all the anointed of the Lord, at least those of us who are endowed? Is unkindness and a critical attitude toward each other a violation of those important covenants to avoid evil speaking of the Lord's anointed? I cringe when I think of some of the things I have written on this very forum, and I wonder if my actions in such cases constitute an explicit violation of my temple covenants.

To be fair (and in no way to justify) we all violate our covenants consistently in a billion ways. Hence...repentance.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

Are we not all the anointed of the Lord, at least those of us who are endowed? Is unkindness and a critical attitude toward each other a violation of those important covenants to avoid evil speaking of the Lord's anointed? I cringe when I think of some of the things I have written on this very forum, and I wonder if my actions in such cases constitute an explicit violation of my temple covenants.

Oh...one other thought I just had on this. Also not meant to justify, but...a thought...

What, exactly, does it mean to "speak evil of"? I mean certainly that could mean just the generic broad idea (critical, unkind, etc.). But I do not think that can possibly be the case, particularly when talking about every person ever in who has gone through their temple ordinances. Of course if you shouldn't say it to/about someone who has their ordinances out, you probably shouldn't say it to/about someone who hasn't. And if you should, then you should. I'm not sure the "annointed" plays much into that. I'm just not sure critical is the key to what is considered speaking evil of. And we should never, really, be intentionally unkind to others, despite their being endowed or not.

It strikes me that there has to be something more explicit in that covenant. Either that or it is redundant. Because we covenant to obey as well, and that covenant covers loving your enemy (and your friends) and doing good to those who spitefully use you, etc.

Edited June 29, 2016 by The Folk Prophet

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

To be fair (and in no way to justify) we all violate our covenants consistently in a billion ways. Hence...repentance.

Does that mean we're going to postpone the translation party tonight?  Ok.  So I have a new Blu-Ray.

[David13]

Who are the Lord's anointed?  All of us?  Or the 12 or 15?

Further, is making a true remark about someone, at least from my point of view, is that speaking evil?

What is speaking evil?

dc

[David13]

On 6/29/2016 at 10:18 AM, Vort said:

Are we not all the anointed of the Lord, at least those of us who are endowed?

I don't know.

dc

[David13]

On 6/29/2016 at 9:47 AM, The Folk Prophet said:

I'm pretty sure they excommunicate people who sustain someone they're not meant to.

@David13 I'm sure you'll be getting a call from your bishop any day now. 

 

 

In case it isn't clear what I'm getting at... sustain away people. No one cares.   Unless you accidentally find yourself at an assembly for the Church of Satan, in which case you should probably keep your hand firmly at your side.

I think they wanted me to sustain.  They maybe wanted me to feel 'a part of' or something.  I was going to do that on my own.

There is no record kept of any sustaining vote.  Only the objections are "noted" but only in the sense that they notice that there was an objection.

Then they are merely told to see their Bishop or Stake President.

Between going with you or the missionaries, I will have to go with them.  They are "official".

So far I don't know if you are "official" or not.

The church may call it sustaining as that is the historical term, I suppose, but I think it's actually a "vote of confidence".   That is how I shall consider it.  As a vote of confidence.

dc

Edited June 30, 2016 by David13

[David13]

On 6/29/2016 at 2:21 AM, Edspringer said:

Interesting, DC

As a member of the Church you're authorized to raise your hand in a sustaining vote as long as you are worthy to do so. I say this because in some cases, after some disciplinary action, the bishop or stake president may ask the person not to participate in sustaining votes for a season.

So if you have been living a worthy life and your bishop hasnt said otherwise, you're ok to sustain the ward or stake members when it's so asked. 

I suppose I'm worthy.  I'm not certain if I get a paper on that or anything.  Or do I? 
I can mention I went to 3 sessions at the Manti Temple this week, 2 on Tuesday and 1 on Wednesday. 

I say that not to brag, but to testify as to how much I love the Endowment session, and particular the Manti Temple version, which is presented live, with live people, just like in Salt Lake.

And to encourage anyone who has not been there to go.

They just finished the Manti Mormon Pageant Saturday.  Which is another reason to visit Manti in June.  That's not why I went but many people do.

dc

[Vort]

1 hour ago, David13 said:

Who are the Lord's anointed?

To anoint is to put oil on someone. That was my thought.