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Hello,

Before anything else, I want to explain what the situation is. I have been dating this girl for around 4 and 1/2 years now. She is a member of the LDS church and I am not. Recently we broke up, even though we both still love each other very much, because she thought that God told her to do so. She wanted someone who could marry her in the temple and hold the priesthood, and I can not provide those things as a non-member. Through a week of praying and fasting, God gave me an answer that was "keep fighting for her, she is the one". Even though I am not LDS, my relationship with God is strong.

We have since discussed the fact that we both got different answers, and have agreed to go 1 week without contact, and pray everyday about the situation. I know God wouldn't lie, and may have been using the break up as a way to awaken my spiritual side and allow for individual growth during that time and that we will end up back together. 

Do any of you believe in interfaith marriages? I have spoken with members that are married to non-members who are happily married. I know that I can be sealed to someone after death, is there a way to provide blessing to my children without the priesthood? If she were to come back to me, and I felt that I shouldn't convert, she would be giving up a temple marriage and preisthood, but God wouldn't let us be unhappy. 

I would love to hear what you have to say. 

 

Thank you for your time.

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5 hours ago, MarcusDylan said:

Hello,

Before anything else, I want to explain what the situation is. I have been dating this girl for around 4 and 1/2 years now. She is a member of the LDS church and I am not. Recently we broke up, even though we both still love each other very much, because she thought that God told her to do so. She wanted someone who could marry her in the temple and hold the priesthood, and I can not provide those things as a non-member. Through a week of praying and fasting, God gave me an answer that was "keep fighting for her, she is the one". Even though I am not LDS, my relationship with God is strong.

We have since discussed the fact that we both got different answers, and have agreed to go 1 week without contact, and pray everyday about the situation. I know God wouldn't lie, and may have been using the break up as a way to awaken my spiritual side and allow for individual growth during that time and that we will end up back together. 

Do any of you believe in interfaith marriages? I have spoken with members that are married to non-members who are happily married. I know that I can be sealed to someone after death, is there a way to provide blessing to my children without the priesthood? If she were to come back to me, and I felt that I shouldn't convert, she would be giving up a temple marriage and preisthood, but God wouldn't let us be unhappy. 

I would love to hear what you have to say. 

 

Thank you for your time.

That is very good that your relationship with God is strong; we need more people like that in this decaying, sinful world. 

As a father of LDS daughters, I would tell my daughters under no circumstance to marry someone who is not a member of the Church and who cannot worthily take them to the temple. Yes, inter-faith marriages can work. I've seen plenty that do. However, quite frankly there is no point to marrying someone outside the faith.

With marriage one has to accept the other partner as they are not as they hope they will be. A marriage built between a faithful LDS woman and a non-LDS man will always be an unequal marriage. The faithful LDS woman will always be wanting her husband to become a member and take her to the temple. And quite frankly, marriage can already be extremely difficult at times, adding another layer on top of that is not a recipe for success.  

Let's just play this out; one of a couple of things will happen if you and her get married as of right now.  Option 1) You never join the church and never have desires to do so. This means that she will live the entirety of her mortal existence married to a man who does not hold the Priesthood and who cannot a) give her children a name and a blessing (and as a Father and having done this it is one of the most sacred experiences in my life). b) cannot baptism her children (again a very awesome experience), c) cannot attend the Temple regularly with her to do sacred ordinances and have very intimate spiritual experiences together at the temple d) cannot give blessings of comfort and blessings of health (again I've had many sacred experiences giving my wife blessings of health and without those blessing, well I'll just say a Blessing of Health by the Priesthood is very, very real e) Worst case scenario does not attend church with her and the children. f) if the faith is truly split, the children will be taught half one thing and half another that is not right and just for children, for their betterment they must see Father and Mother united.

Your religion is the foundational core of who we are-it is the underpinnings of how we are supposed to act and think in this world. One's religion can be Christian, Buddist or even Atheist or philosophical (yes those are religions).

Option 2) The road is very difficult and without a husband who has the same core believes as her she leaves her religion. Option 3) After much soul-searching and many years of marriage (10+) you finally join the church.

With option 1&2 there is no point in her marrying you.  Why would you want to be married to someone in this life who cannot provide the blessings of God and of eternity? Because of "romantic" love. I got news for you, "romantic love" is a fairly new phenomenon. History the world over and the basis for stable families has shown that you do need more than "romantic" love to keep a marriage together. You need Christlike Charity-which is way different than the cotton-candy fluffy gone in a wisp "romantic love".

It is not just about the temple and being sealed. It is about having a righteous Priesthood holder in the home who can provide the Spiritual and Temporal needs for the family. Just like I would not advise my daughters to marry someone who cannot provide for her and the children temporally, I would not advise my daughters to marry someone who cannot provide for her and her children spiritually.The husband and father should be the leader in all things spiritual and temporal.

I will comment on the "God wouldn't let us be unhappy".  Let me give you the absolute key to happiness in this life. No one and I mean no one is responsible for your happiness except you. Not God, not your girlfriend, not family, not friends. You are the only one who can make yourself happy in this life, it is irresponsible and immature to expect anyone else to make you happy. A mature individual (and many people across centuries and in the most horrific circumstances have done it) find happiness in whatever circumstances they find themselves in.

 

Edited by yjacket
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I am an LDS woman married to an non-LDS man (he's an inactive Evangelical).  We are extremely happy in our marriage, and have an adorable 2 year old.  Interfaith marriages can work.

That being said, this relationship is HARD.  Every Sunday, I go to church by myself while husband sleeps in.  During 3 hours of church, I deal with a (sometimes screaming) toddler by myself.  I teach her about God by myself.  I read scriptures with her, by myself.  I had her blessed not by my husband, but by my dad.  When I need support for church stuff, I reach out to my gal friends and their husbands.   My husband is supportive of me, but as an outsider who chooses to have no involvement.  I'm preparing to go to the temple by myself- he is supportive, but doesn't remotely understand anything about it.   Some of his relatives are not supportive, if not downright hostile to little girl and I going to LDS church.

As for my husband, he sometimes thinks his Mormon-in-laws are crazy.  But he quietly sits through mission farewells, people talking about church stuff, etc, though he doesn't share the faith.  Sometime he cannot sit in, such as my sisters upcoming wedding.  We both deal with the occasional please-convert-now pressure from relatives and associates.  Thankfully, we do both agree on the many things at home (no alcohol, smoking, coffee, etc) to that's not an issue between us.  

 

 

A couple of other thoughts after reading your post---

1) Do NOT convert to be with this girl.  A person joining the LDS faith and being baptized is because of they feel God calling them that way.  If you (or anyone else) join the LDS church because of a girl and not because of God, then you are lying to God, the girl, and yourself.  Listen to what God tells you.

2) Yes, you could be sealed after your death.  This means  that if you choose to convert after death, your family (you two and the kids) can honor that sealing and be together.  If you do not choose to convert, it has no effect.

3) No, you may not give any blessing to your child as you are now.  Only a baptized LDS priest may give blessings.  It is quite similar to how in the Catholic church a non-baptisized non-priest person may not officiate the sacraments.  

4) Yes, God does want us to be happy.  But that happiness comes with us abiding by HIS plan, and not ours.  His plan for your happiness may or may not involve this girl, but it IS imperative that you Listen to His direction.

Edited by Jane_Doe
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I can't understand why someone would think someone of a different faith is "the one".

Particularly different being LDS.

There is just so much to it.

It isn't like the Catholic Church, where you go to church on Sunday for one hour and that's it.

It is a full time deal.

I would like to remarry.  And the first qualification I look for is ... faithful LDS in good standing with recommend.

There is far more than enough difference, me being male, and she being female (2nd qualification) to give us all the "diversity" we might ever need.

All kinds of "mixed" marriages MIGHT work, and probably some do.  But I do believe it's less than half that do.  The general divorce rate is very high where they are not mixed.  Why lessen the odds?

I think you are barking up the wrong tree, and just don't know it.

Jane Doe and yjacket have set it out rather explicitly.

dc

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1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

 

That being said, this relationship is HARD. 

 

A couple of other thoughts after reading your post---

1) Do NOT convert to be with this girl. 

Jane Doe

I have a heart of stone, but you just about break my heart here.

I am glad to hear you are happy in your marriage.

If a lady were to tell me she would convert to LDS for me I would drop any consideration of her immediately.  That could only be a very shallow person.

On the op's good side, he says nothing about converting after 4 1/2 years. 

dc

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It is very unlikely that a marriage like the one you propose (no pun intended) would be satisfying to either of you, and, more especially, to your children.
 

Quote

Bridget Jack Meyers, an evangelical Christian who lives outside Chicago, married her husband, Paul, a Mormon, only after a lot of counseling and a lot of research. Meyers, a student at the Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, jokes that there aren't a lot of books on evangelical-Mormon marriages. So she looked at ones on Christian-Jewish relationships. "A lot of the advice was to pick a religion and raise [the kids] in one. But neither one of us wanted to give up ours," she said. So the couple agreed to raise their children in both faiths, letting them choose their own path at some point.

Shortly before their first anniversary, her husband walked out. Meyers, who writes about her interfaith family at ClobberBlog.com, explained in one posting: "He claimed that I had been a perfect wife and he had no complaints about me, but he was having second thoughts about a lifetime of interfaith marriage. He had decided that he wanted to get married in the temple and have his children be sealed to him, and he wanted to raise his children in the church, so he thought it would be best if we went our separate ways before any children entered into the union."

The two reconciled and, according to Meyers, religion wasn't the only issue. Still, it's clear to her that these questions are lurking. "We didn't account for all the ways that the different religions will affect our children," she told me. Mormons typically baptize children around age 8. But Meyers believes that is too young. Since her daughter is only 3, she says, "I'm not getting worked up over it yet." But she worries that if they wait too long, her child will be ostracized in the Mormon church.

As for the long term, she tries not to "religiously manipulate" her daughter. But Meyers knows she will be disappointed if her daughter chooses her husband's church.

Be fair to both of you. Either convert to (and I mean convert, not merely join) The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) and marry her, or drop her so you can both exercise your faith. It is religious whoredom, according to the Bible, to follow after strange gods. So, which of you is a religious whore?

I'm really not trying to be hurtful. The facts simply do not allow you to imagine that love will conquer all. It won't, and one of you will end up caving in to the other, or will feel deep resentment toward the other, or you will separate. And that's the best case: the worst is the fight over and within your children's minds.

Quote

Coleman doesn't think that people get married with the intention of deceiving their spouse; "they just have no idea how powerfully unconscious religion can be."

It's just not worth it.

Lehi

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Hello Marcus! I don't have anything to add to what has been said. I just wanted to say welcome to the board.  

If you want to fight for this girl, seriously inveterate the church, don't convert for her (as Jane wisely said) but do take the missinary disussiona, and read the Book of Mormon and pray about it. She's worth that effort.  After all, you love her, and her beliefs are a big part of who she is. :)  

Best of luck.

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I think there is at least a grain of truth, and much for you to consider, in this short anecdote given by Elder Hales in his General Conference address last April on the Holy Ghost

As we receive the inspiration of the Holy Ghost for ourselves, it is wise to remember that we cannot receive revelation for others. I know of a young man who told a young woman, “I’ve had a dream that you are to be my wife.” The young woman pondered that statement and then responded, “When I have the same dream, I’ll come and talk to you.”

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2016/04/the-holy-ghost?lang=eng

 

 

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I think there is at least a grain of truth, and much for you to consider, in this short anecdote given by Elder Hales in his General Conference address last April on the Holy Ghost

As we receive the inspiration of the Holy Ghost for ourselves, it is wise to remember that we cannot receive revelation for others. I know of a young man who told a young woman, “I’ve had a dream that you are to be my wife.” The young woman pondered that statement and then responded, “When I have the same dream, I’ll come and talk to you.”

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2016/04/the-holy-ghost?lang=eng

 

 

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15 hours ago, MarcusDylan said:

Hello,

Through a week of praying and fasting, God gave me an answer that was "keep fighting for her, she is the one". Even though I am not LDS, my relationship with God is strong.

 

I am not LDS, so this struck me as, well, unusual.  You did not disclose your faith community, so I can only speak from my own perspective, which is Pentecostal Christian. Most Christian communities believe interfaith marriages are wrong, based on Paul's letter to the Corinthians, in which he said we are not to be "unequally yoked."  So, in my case, if I were to fast and pray on the matter you mentioned, I would essentially be asking God for permission to violate his command.  In other words, it would be a non-starter.  So, from the non-LDS side, most Christians I know would say it is wrong to even pray about such a thing--that Scripture already gives us the answer.

On the other hand, I've been at this site for 10 years now, and have found many people here much more open to interfaith relationships than I am.  I doubt too many would encourage them, but many here are reticent to give an outright, "No--you're not supposed to do that."

Hope the above helps.  :-)

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1 hour ago, askandanswer said:

I think there is at least a grain of truth, and much for you to consider, in this short anecdote given by Elder Hales in his General Conference address last April on the Holy Ghost

As we receive the inspiration of the Holy Ghost for ourselves, it is wise to remember that we cannot receive revelation for others. I know of a young man who told a young woman, “I’ve had a dream that you are to be my wife.” The young woman pondered that statement and then responded, “When I have the same dream, I’ll come and talk to you.”

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2016/04/the-holy-ghost?lang=eng

 

 

 

You should probably not interpret the answer that you received as "she is the one", but rather that she would be a really good spouse for you.

However, just because she would be good for you doesn't mean you would be good for her.  It has to be a good fit from both angles.  And both parties have the right to receive inspiration to help them in their decision.  Whether or not she decides to marry you, you should learn more about Jesus Christ's restored church.

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I look at all LDS women and think ... "she would be a good wife".

However, that does not mean "she would be a good wife ... FOR ME."

They are good wives for their LDS husbands. 

Don't over interpret any perceived message.

dc

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I look at all LDS women and think ... "she would be a good wife".

However, that does not mean "she would be a good wife ... FOR ME."

They are good wives for their LDS husbands. 

Don't over interpret any perceived message.

dc

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I am not in an interfaith marriage - I am Mormon and my wife is also Mormon.  However, my parents were in an interfaith marriage - my mom is Mormon and my dad is nonreligious.  So I believe I may say a few words about what I observed growing up.

My parents' marriage started out OK and they were deeply in love at first, but the marriage slowly became an absolute train wreck over two decades.  My mom wanted nothing more than my father to convert so she could have an eternal marriage, like everyone else she knew who was Mormon.  You must understand, as Mormons we believe that marriage, when done correctly, can last through the eternities.  My mother thought initially that it would be no big deal marrying outside the church because she was in love with my father, and everything would fix itself, even if there was the risk she could not be with my father through the eternities.  Well, she was wrong, and over many years began to long for this blessing of eternal marriage more than anything else.  My father wasn't having any of it.  He thought that Mormonism was "weird", and couldn't understand why my mother was increasingly not any "fun" - no booze, R-rated movies, etc.  For a long time, my father tolerated my mother's Mormonism, and did not interfere too much when me and my brothers were raised in the church, but he refused to have anything to do with the Church, started having huge fights with my mother over Mormonism and its role in the house, and over time increasingly resented the fact that he was an outsider in essentially a Mormon home.  When I was 17 years old, everything came to a head-on collision, and my father left my mother for some waitress in her mid 50s he started an affair with.  He is now an alcoholic living in seclusion in Arizona.

My parents' problems are not only rooted in the fact that they were in an interfaith marriage.  However, it was certainly a contributing factor.  I also believe, based on my parents' experience, that even if a couple is initially deeply in love, the problems inherent in an interfaith marriage will get worse and worse over time and cannot really be fixed short of the non-Mormon spouse converting.  Eternal marriage is that important for us as Mormons.

You may be in love with this girl, but understand that her longing for you to convert and have a temple marriage will likely get stronger, not weaker, over time, and that can cause some very serious problems down the road as you have to confront all of the regular challenges of life.  For this reason, and because of what you will be asking this girl to give up, I cannot recommend an interfaith marriage between a Mormon and a non-Mormon.  You are asking this girl to pay a terrible price, and you will be sentencing her to great pain in not having an eternal marriage, whether she realizes the scope of this or not at the present time.  Like my mother, over the years, she will realize what she gave up but could have had, and she will be terribly sad.

Anyhow, my two cents on the matter.  I wish you the best for whatever you do decide. 

Edited by DoctorLemon
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9 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

I am not LDS, so this struck me as, well, unusual.  You did not disclose your faith community, so I can only speak from my own perspective, which is Pentecostal Christian. Most Christian communities believe interfaith marriages are wrong, based on Paul's letter to the Corinthians, in which he said we are not to be "unequally yoked."  So, in my case, if I were to fast and pray on the matter you mentioned, I would essentially be asking God for permission to violate his command.  In other words, it would be a non-starter.  So, from the non-LDS side, most Christians I know would say it is wrong to even pray about such a thing--that Scripture already gives us the answer.

On the other hand, I've been at this site for 10 years now, and have found many people here much more open to interfaith relationships than I am.  I doubt too many would encourage them, but many here are reticent to give an outright, "No--you're not supposed to do that."

Hope the above helps.  :-)

Very well stated!

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7 hours ago, DoctorLemon said:

My parents' marriage started out OK and they were deeply in love at first, but the marriage slowly became an absolute train wreck over two decades.  My mom wanted nothing more than my father to convert so she could have an eternal marriage, like everyone else she knew who was Mormon.  

You may be in love with this girl, but understand that her longing for you to convert and have a temple marriage will likely get stronger, not weaker, over time, and that can cause some very serious problems down the road as you have to confront all of the regular challenges of life.  

When you are young and in love, you think everything will be alright "love conquers all", except the harsh reality is that it doesn't (at least the infatuation/puppy-dog/can't stand to be without them type of love).

As time goes on and we get older our understanding of faith and our religion changes. If one is faithful, that meaning becomes deeper, more firm like the growing of a tiny oak into a majestic oak.  The core root of LDS belief is the purpose of life, which is that we were sent here to gain bodies, experience life and to become like our Heavenly Father. That becoming involves finding a spouse with which to spend eternity. Therefore the desire for the non-LDS spouse to become LDS will grow over time.

Consequently, as a marriage grows and time goes on, love takes  a completely different meaning. Marriages that last generally end up with the Husband and Wife becoming more and more alike, in thought and deed (and even in looks to an extent).  While it does happen, it is not typical that a happy marriage of 40+ years involves two people who are worlds apart in thought and deed. And this is normal- we are commanded to become One in a marriage.

Therefore, people from two different faiths entering into a marriage will eventually (long term) either grow together and adopt the same religious beliefs together, or grow apart and split. Men and women are already different enough! The more similar their backgrounds, socio-economic status, religious believes, political believes, the better chances they have at having a successful marriage. 

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On 2016-07-02 at 5:55 AM, MarcusDylan said:

Hello,

Before anything else, I want to explain what the situation is. I have been dating this girl for around 4 and 1/2 years now. She is a member of the LDS church and I am not. Recently we broke up, even though we both still love each other very much, because she thought that God told her to do so. She wanted someone who could marry her in the temple and hold the priesthood, and I can not provide those things as a non-member. Through a week of praying and fasting, God gave me an answer that was "keep fighting for her, she is the one". Even though I am not LDS, my relationship with God is strong.

We have since discussed the fact that we both got different answers, and have agreed to go 1 week without contact, and pray everyday about the situation. I know God wouldn't lie, and may have been using the break up as a way to awaken my spiritual side and allow for individual growth during that time and that we will end up back together. 

Do any of you believe in interfaith marriages? I have spoken with members that are married to non-members who are happily married. I know that I can be sealed to someone after death, is there a way to provide blessing to my children without the priesthood? If she were to come back to me, and I felt that I shouldn't convert, she would be giving up a temple marriage and preisthood, but God wouldn't let us be unhappy. 

I would love to hear what you have to say. 

 

Thank you for your time.

Hi MD,

This might sound harsh, but it sounds like she understands the importance of a temple marriage and having the priesthood in the home, and I support her decision.  For a woman to marry outside the faith puts her and her future children at risk of missing out on some very important blessing that they can't get some other way.

In some cases it does work out.  My daughter married a non-member who was a great guy.  When their daughter was blessed at church (something he could not do since he was not a priesthood holder) he felt something that caused him to take a serious look at the church, and a couple of months later he came to know the church was true and he joined.  He was just ordained an Elder and they will be going to the temple soon to be sealed and we are all very happy for them.  This tends to be the exception, not the rule.  It is very common for a woman who marries a man outside to church to talk herself into it by convincing her self that this man will change and join the church etc. etc. then it doesn't happen and she is hurt and disappointed and feels cheated out of something that was dear to her.  You don't want a marriage like that.

She has to go with what God tells her to do, same as you have to go with God says to you.  When God tells you both the same thing then you can act on that together but that is not the case right now.  At the same time, what each of you feel God is telling you is not mutually exclusive.  She feels that God is telling her to marry a priesthood holder in the temple, You feel God wants you to fight for her, so fight for her, but not by trying to convince her turn her back on what God has told her.  Fight to become that kind of person God wants her to be with.

You can become that priesthood holder who can take her to the temple, but you have to do it the right way.  If you choose to take the missionary lessons and read the Book of Mormon and join the church you MUST do it for the right reasons.  Not as some kind of tactic to get her to marry you, but because you know it is true so deeply that even if she went off and married some other guy that you would still stay a faithful Mormon.

When I was on my mission, there was some non-member guy who wanted to take my girlfriend (who is now my wife) away from me.  She would not compromise on the issue of getting married in the temple and he knew that.  He joined the church in the hopes that this would help him win her over.  She was very happy to see him join and considered his conversion real, but it also put her in an awkward position where she felt it hard to be honest with him about the fact that she didn't quite feel the same about him as he felt about her.  She didn't want to hurt him and drive him out of the church.  That's how it turned out anyway.  He faked going halfway to what she wanted but it didn't get her to come halfway to meet him and he became extremely bitter toward her and the church over it.  They could have been friends but he ruined it with what he did.  She felt guilty about that for a long time even though it wasn't her fault.

He didn't love her, he wanted her, and there is a big different.  If he actually loved her he would have backed off, recognizing that he was not the king of guy she was looking for, didn't want to become that kind of guy, and respecting that she already found that kind of guy.  Or he could have sincerely become the kind of guy she was looking for.  Instead he lied to her and manipulated her because all he cared about was getting what he wanted, not her happiness.  He is the one and only person in the world I would love to punch in the face if I ever met him.  Don't be that guy. 

Accept that she is going to put God and the church before you, not just now but always, and the man she wants is a man who will put God and the church (and by that I mean specifically The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) before her.  That doesn't sound nice, but the truth is that when a couple put God and the church first their ability to love each other grows to the point where they love each other better and deeper than if they put each other first.

Take some discussions with the missionaries about it and see where it goes, but be honest and don't join for the wrong reasons.  Don't lead her on into thinking the church means more to you than it really does. If the idea of living a Mormon lifestyle, including paying tithing, giving up coffee, alcohol, tea, tobacco, any abuse of drugs, no sexual relations of any kind outside of marriage, going to church every Sunday (3 hrs, more if you have certain callings in the church), serving in the church, living up to temple covenants, missionary work etc. etc. etc. turns you off, then she is not the girl for you and the best thing you can do for her long term happiness is to walk away.  And if you actually do love her, you'll do what is right for her happiness even if it mean heartache for you.

 

Edited by Latter-Day Marriage
re-word some things
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On 2016-07-02 at 1:03 PM, Jane_Doe said:

2) Yes, you could be sealed after your death.  This means  that if you choose to convert after death, your family (you two and the kids) can honor that sealing and be together.  If you do not choose to convert, it has no effect.

There is some additional risk with this.  The spirit world is not there to give anybody a second chance.  Those who did not get a chance to accept the gospel here can accept it there, but if somebody gets that chance here and has no desire to accept it all their life they are going to feel the same way there.  I rather think that if a person is married to a faithful Mormon for decades and has no desire join the church, that when they die that is probably the end of their chance.

Second, when a husband and wife are sealed in the temple one of the blessings to their children from that (if they keep their covenants) is that if their children stray from the path they have the promise that the Lord will (in his time) bring them back.  I've seen this happen in my family and I know it is true.  Taking this 'I'll get sealed after I'm dead' option deprives your children of that blessing which these days is more important than ever.

Third, there was one woman my wife knew who had a non-member husband and after many years being married he passed away.  His wife refused to be sealed to him and later on married and was sealed to righteous priesthood holder instead.  The sealing ceremony give a conditional promise of being together forever.  You both still have to have lived a life worthy of celestial glory, and both have to still want to be together come judgement day.  After decades of refusing the gospel and the effect that can have on a relationship it is far from a sure thing you'll be together forever taking this option.

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