Very confused Non-LDS


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Hi. I'm new here and I have a situation I'm dealing with and I don't know what to do. I could really use some advice. I've been dating a man for 2 ½ years. We are in a long distant relationship. He's in Maine, I'm in Missouri.  We are not young. He is 41 and I am 37. First let me say that we get along wonderfully, we have a lot in common. We love and care for each other deeply. We have gone through rough patches like another couple and we always talk things out and forgive one another.

But a couple of weeks ago he told me, out of the blue, that he just joined a LDS church. I was stunned but happy that he found a faith. He had none when I met him. I myself am non-denominational, (I believe in God and Jesus and his teachings), and I've never felt comfortable in a church. Well last Sunday he mentioned to me that he was witnessing a baptism and I was like okay great. I asked when he was having one. He said he was baptized already and that he is going to be ordained as a priest. (As I write this he is now a priest.) I was so shocked that I couldn't react. I didn't speak to him the rest of the day. I felt hurt and betrayed that he didn't talk to me about this when he first was considering it. The next morning we got into a huge fight. We almost broke up. I told him I couldn't accept it and that I couldn't and wouldn't be apart of his religion. I know now that was wrong of me. I only skimmed a few websites, so no real understanding on my part. I didn't consider the sacrifices he was making either. I was very scared. We were at the point of saying good-bye when I couldn't do it. Something told me to stay, I couldn't end it. I need to be with him. I couldn't lose him and he didn't want to lose me either.

We talked it out, over many hours, (we both agreed we did each other wrong) and he said he would never chose religion over me and that he would never push it on me. We both agree that we will have to compromise in our life together. My beliefs don't change how he feels about me. That he is in it for Eternity with me. He did mention that he wanted to be sealed in a temple. I have read what you must do and I don't know if I could ever go through with it. He did say about having a civil ceremony. I would like the civil marriage first but I'm afraid that he wants a temple ceremony first. He thinks that I should join the church so we can have a temple sealing then get excommunicated. But in my eyes that would be a lie. I'd be lying to everyone in his church and to him. I don't plan on converting. He said he accepts that I have my own beliefs. I told him that I would try better to respect and learn more about his religion and I have been. But I am having the hardest time. When he tells me about what he is doing at his church, I want to cry. I know it's wrong of me to be upset because he is getting more involved with the church. I know he is going through changes and I'm scared that he is going to become someone I won't recognize anymore. He has said that he is still the same person as before he joined. Outside of changing because of the commandments and laws he has to follow he is still the same.

I have been reading more about LDS and there are things that I can't wrap my head around or agree with and there are few things that I can agree with. I tried reading the Book of Mormon and I couldn't get past the first page and I know I couldn't follow the Words of Wisdom, I like my tea (can't live without my green tea) and once in awhile a coffee. Alcohol isn't a problem, I usually would have a glass of wine once or twice a year. I do eat healthy as I can and exercise. Plus I'm having a hard time dealing with the chastity aspect. I know it's wrong in any Christian religion to have sex outside of marriage but I want that level of intimacy with him when I get to visit him. And it hurts me to know that we can't. I'm trying to accept this and be supportive but I'm having the hardest time. I'm freaking out and scared about how our life together is going to be in the future.

Should I just be open with him and tell him how hard of a time I'm having with trying to understand? Any ideas why I can't wrap my head around the religion and how I can understand it better? I don't understand why I feel this way. I'm normally a very very open minded person. I want to get over this fear and depression I feel. I'm really confused about what I should do. I'm not even sure what I am asking makes sense. Maybe I'm trying to hard and worrying too much about understanding it? I've been dwelling on this since he first told me about it. I could really use some fresh perspective and a clear head. I asked a very close person to me and they said to leave him and find someone else. Like I said I can't and don't want to do that. I really really appreciate and am grateful for any advice. Thanks!

 

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Wow. That's a lot of changes for you in a couple of weeks and such changes can be tough on anyone. I feel for you!

My first advice us to breathe. Take a nice deep breath and realize you don't have to a darn thing at this time. And you need some more time to take this in.

My thoughts and opinions, worth whatever you want:

If it makes you feel better I sat your boyfriend is rushing this just as much on you. He has every right to choose whatever faith he wants. You two sound serious, but when you're not married and states away I question just what explanations and permission he requires of you. So, sorry, you may need to just force yourself to deal with his choices.

Also recall you are under no obligation to join. Especially to get sealed and excommunicated, a very stupid idea on his part. With all due respect, I think it's a bit odd you've been happily dating for a couple of years and now with religion changes marriage is suddenly being forced up. Why now? 

I'm also a bit surprised he has already been ordained a priest.

You also say you want to cry when you hear about what he's doing at his church. May I ask what specifically is making you want to cry? 

You also worry about him becoming a different person than the man you love. This is a very legitimate and understandable fear. What are you afraid you will see in regards to changes? People change all the time because of various outside influences. Why this change and not something else? (I don't mean to sound accusing, just putting out that question for you to think about.)

Based on your one post and my limitations to know anything more than that, I venture to say you're overthinking this. It's new, joining a church is a big change, and I think you're trying to tackle the change all at once. Really no need to at this point, you have time. So, hugs to you. Take this at your pace. You can decide later what to do.

Edited by Backroads
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Hi @Coll79,

Welcome to lds.net. We are glad you found us, and are willing to ask actual LDS members about LDS beliefs/ideas.

Some observations, in no particular order:
1. Yes, I agree, that both wronged each other, "we both agreed we did each other wrong". If you are in a 2.5 year relationship and you were 100% blindsided about him not only learning about a religion, but only told after the fact that he joined one... pretty big step in his life to have kept you in the dark about. Sounds like you both have moved passed that, but it also sounds like you both don't talk/communicate that often or that in-depth to have something like that become known only after the fact. I can understand your frustration.

2. Agreed. You "are very scared". It seems like a lot of the reactions you are having are natural. I commend you on trying to gather actual "facts" so that you are making educated and wise choices moving forward. 

3. Your boyfriend sounds very naive and new in his understandings of the LDS church. I would suggest that in his LDS infancy, he is not a solid source of doctrinal understanding "yet". This is new to you both. A calm head will prevail in this situation. Again, learn "facts" and then you can make the educated choices. 

4. If your boyfriend does really follow the teaching of the LDS church...he is going to change. He will become different. He will not be the person you met 2.5 years ago. While he will change, those changes will ultimately be for the better. He should become more spiritual, more loving, more forgiving, more empathetic, more understanding, more caring, etc. You will see changes, but they should only be changes for the better. 

5. "I don't understand why I feel this way." Change can be scary, period. You appear to be afraid of losing him, so you are scared of "loss", a loss of someone you love, it is a natural reaction. You need to figure out if it is a "justified" reaction now.

6. If you want to understand things better about the LDS church, ask real LDS people like you have done. Ask us! Ask the missionaries in your area. Want to better understand what it is that your boyfriend is doing, learn yourself. It doesn't mean you need to act on it, but take some baby steps. Learning leads to Understanding. Understanding leads to Educated Choices. Educated Choices leads to peace of mind for the choices that you did make rather than allowing fear/anxiety to control your path. 

Hang in there... baby steps...ask away, we are happy to help!

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Hi Coll79,  I agree he should have talked with you more about this before rather than spring it on you like that, but there are times where a person joins the church rather soon after they first start investigating it and if it happened like that, that could explain why it came out of the blue to you.  Perhaps he knew you would not be supportive and that made him reluctant to say anything until after the fact.  Also, with long distance relationships you never get the full picture of the other person (well, that true with it's somebody local too, but LDR's make it worse).

Being ordained a priest is a normal thing, we have a lay clergy and every worthy man is ordained to the priesthood.  It isn't like being a Catholic priest or anything.  A man who grows up in the church will be ordained a priest when they are 16, and an Elder when they are 18.  New converts are ordained a priest soon after their baptism and work toward being ordained an Elder.  Again this part of our lay clergy structure and not like being an Elder in other churches.  It allows him to serve in various church functions.

There is a LOT and mean a WHOLE LOT of really bad information out there about the church, and google is not your friend here.  I would recommend checking out mormon.org, or meeting with local  missionaries, or reading the Book of Mormon to get an accurate idea of what we teach, believe and do.  Trust me when I say this will make him a better man.  He saw value in it, so put enough faith in his judgement to check it out yourself, even if just to better understand where he is coming from.

My Dad drank coffee like it was water before he joined the church, but once he knew for himself that the Word of Wisdom was from God it gave him the motivation to give it up, and if you ever reach a point where you want to be a Mormon too God will help you overcome the obstacles.

You are right however that this is a serious issue for your relationship.  Other threads here about mormon/non-mormon relationships will give you a window into that.  Yes you need to be open with him about how you feel.  Here are your options as I see it:

The hard but worth it way:
Investigate the church seriously and come to understand us as best you can.  Respect his choice and don't try to change his mind.  If you have a genuine conversion, join and continue  your relationship with him.  Work toward marrying in the temple.

The short term painful way:
Break up, find somebody else who is a better match spiritually and ideologically.  Local is good, LDR's are hard and keep a couple from really getting to know each other.  In the long run, this will be much better than taking the wrong way.

The wrong way:
Join the church just to please or keep him, or try to make it work without resolving religious differences.  It won't work and it will likely make things worse before the end.

What you must not do is disrepect his choice, try to pull him away from the church or seduce him into breaking the law of chastity or other commandments.  That is the evil way.

What is the right way depends on you.  He has had a conversion, a change of heart, and if you really can't join him in that then the short term painful way is the right way to go, and the sooner the better.  If you are willing to give the hard way a shot, it might work out, but the bottom line is that for the two of you to have a lasting, happy relationship will require you to get on the same page religiously.

 

Edited by Latter-Day Marriage
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You are in Missouri.  He is in Maine.

You get along wonderfully.

Yes!  Because you never see each other and have no idea who each of you are.

This isn't a 'relationship'.  It's a distant acquaintance.

dc

 

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1 hour ago, David13 said:

You are in Missouri.  He is in Maine.

You get along wonderfully.

Yes!  Because you never see each other and have no idea who each of you are.

This isn't a 'relationship'.  It's a distant acquaintance.

dc

 

David, that was uncalled for.  Be nice.

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2 hours ago, David13 said:

Because you never see each other and have no idea who each of you are.

Well, that may not be accurate. She said:

9 hours ago, Coll79 said:

I know it's wrong in any Christian religion to have sex outside of marriage but I want that level of intimacy with him when I get to visit him. And it hurts me to know that we can't.

Seems they know each other more than they ought to.

Lehi

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6 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

Well, that may not be accurate. She said:

Seems they know each other more than they ought to.

Lehi

Those are future tense statements, Lee, not past tense.

 

34 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

David, that was uncalled for.  Be nice.

Truth hurts the worst, but that doesn't mean it's not truth.

dc

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8 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

Well, that may not be accurate. She said:

9 hours ago, Coll79 said:

I know it's wrong in any Christian religion to have sex outside of marriage but I want that level of intimacy with him when I get to visit him. And it hurts me to know that we can't.

Seems they know each other more than they ought to.

2 minutes ago, David13 said:

Those are future tense statements, [Lehi], not past tense.

No, they're present tense, and, while they could indicate a future event, it seems likely, given the rest of the tone here, that they are more an imperfect (unfinished and on-going) situation. Or so I read it.

Lehi

 

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3 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Lehi, was that the warm supportive response that this woman needs right now? I am disappointed in you!

Well, I can't recall too many leaders, not Christ, not Peter, not Thomas S. Monson,who are all that "warm and supportive" of breaking one of the Ten Commandments. If you know of any, please let me know.

Indeed, she, herself says:

9 hours ago, Coll79 said:

I know it's wrong in any Christian religion to have sex outside of marriage

… so it isn't a surprise that this is wrong.

Lehi

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3 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

Well, I can't recall too many leaders, not Christ, not Peter, not Thomas S. Monson,who are all that "warm and supportive" of breaking one of the Ten Commandments. If you know of any, please let me know.

Indeed, she, herself says:

… so it isn't a surprise that this is wrong.

Lehi

This woman is not a member of our chuch. She has very bravely come to us for insight and advice. You are not her priesthood leader and have no authority over her.

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2 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

You are not her priesthood leader and have no authority over her.

Nor you mine, and have the same power over me.

All I did was quote her. How is that offensive?

Lehi

 

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49 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

David, that was uncalled for.  Be nice.

My idea of 'being nice' is to give the best (for the op) advice possible, which is what I did.

End the relationship now, as that is the best thing for you, Coll79.

I guess some others here think being nice means encouraging someone to do that which is not right (for them).

I disagree.

dc

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To every one who has replied thank you. I would like to say to those who welcomed me. Thank You. I have read over everyone's advice and opinions and I thank you for taking the time.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if they feel that their opinion is important enough to share then I will be respectful enough to give it some thought. Doesn't mean I have to agree with it. He had to go to Maine and at the time I was not able to go with him. That is the cause of our long distant relationship. We know each other quite well. I should of mentioned that to avoid confusion. I would like to say that our relations that we had was before he converted, and not that is not an excuse to make it sound right. Because I know it's not. I will not deny that it is a beautiful expression that I will miss between us. We are imperfect beings, we sin. God knows this and he forgives us and still loves us. Now that my boyfriend is on this new faith path, I would never do anything to corrupt him or turn him away from God or the church. He is comfortable in the LDS faith.  I feel God loves us NOT what religion we are. I believe that as long as we are true to God, Jesus and His teachings than does it really matter what religion we are that gets us there? We all love God and worship Him. We are all on that same journey and will go to the same end, we are just taking different directions getting there. I know that some will not agree but that is their beliefs. And I don't say that to be offensive to anyone. I'm am only seeking how to make our different faiths work in our relationship. And I do agree with those who said to talk with missionaries and the church. I think going in person will give me a real perspective of the LDS faith and a better chance to learn and understand. And yes, I will open up to him and talk with him about all of this. I can't be scared of doing that. Everyone has given me a lot to think about and consider. Thank you again!  

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10 hours ago, Coll79 said:

But a couple of weeks ago he told me, out of the blue, that he just joined a LDS church. I was stunned but happy that he found a faith. He had none when I met him. I myself am non-denominational, (I believe in God and Jesus and his teachings), and I've never felt comfortable in a church. Well last Sunday he mentioned to me that he was witnessing a baptism and I was like okay great. I asked when he was having one. He said he was baptized already and that he is going to be ordained as a priest. (As I write this he is now a priest.) I was so shocked that I couldn't react. I didn't speak to him the rest of the day. I felt hurt and betrayed that he didn't talk to me about this when he first was considering it. The next morning we got into a huge fight. We almost broke up. I told him I couldn't accept it and that I couldn't and wouldn't be apart of his religion. I know now that was wrong of me. I only skimmed a few websites, so no real understanding on my part. I didn't consider the sacrifices he was making either. I was very scared. We were at the point of saying good-bye when I couldn't do it. Something told me to stay, I couldn't end it. I need to be with him. I couldn't lose him and he didn't want to lose me either.

It sounds like you may have had a few misunderstandings about how we do things that may have led to your discontent.  

For us joining The Church IS baptism.  Yes, in many other denominations, joining is about just deciding to attend that congregation.  For us, it isn't.  Likewise being ordained a priest isn't what it is in other religions.  A Priest is an office in the lesser order of the Priesthood, called the Aaronic Priesthood.  Generally men are ordained priests within a month or so after joining The Church, but it can be much faster.  Generally a male raised in the Church is made a Priest at 16 years old. Below Priests are Teachers and Deacons.  Young men generally become deacons at 12 and teachers at 14.  Adult men who join the Church are rarely made Teachers or Deacons as Priests have all of the same duties and authority as Deacons and Teachers plus some of their own.  A man must be at least a Priest to baptize another. By the way, children raised in the Church are usually baptized at 8 years old.

As one must be a Priest to baptize another, it is not  (or at least was not in the past) uncommon for a man to be baptized, then confirmed a member (another necessary step that must be done by someone who is at least an Elder), then ordained to the office of a priest so that he can then baptize other of his family members. 

In other words while it IS a big deal, it isn't nearly the big deal that it would sound like to someone who has only dealt with more mainstream Christian sects. 

 

 

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I wish the best for the both of you.  It is important to be open about your feelings in a relationship, and learning about his faith will be a blessing to you if you join or not.

A couple points I would address:

Quote

I feel God loves us NOT what religion we are. I believe that as long as we are true to God, Jesus and His teachings than does it really matter what religion we are that gets us there?

You are right that God loves us all.  The way he expresses that love is he give us commandments that if we follow them will lead us to a happier life and keep us from causing harm to our spirit.  He also out of his love has provided a way for us to become cleansed from the sins he knows we will commit.  His kingdom is one of perfection, those stained with sin can not enter it without destroying it's perfection so he gives us a way to become clean from sin and able to return to be with him.

God is also just, so those who choose to reject his gospel, refuse to obey and won't repent likewise choose to separate themselves from God.  He will do all he can to help somebody come to him, but he won't override our freedom to choose to go the other way.

Quote

We all love God and worship Him. We are all on that same journey and will go to the same end, we are just taking different directions getting there.

We have to come to God on HIS terms, not on our own terms.  There is only one path, and the Bible describes it as being strait and narrow.  The broad path is the one that leads to destruction.  Your good intentions are honorable, but you yourself do not have power to cleanse yourself of your own sins   It takes the power of God to bring the atonement into your life and cleanse you from your sins, and that happens through priesthood ordinances like baptism and the sacrament.  Your boyfriend has entered through the gate of baptism onto the path but now he needs to stay on it.   BTW, since he is a priest, if you do get baptized, he could be the one to baptize you.

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8 hours ago, Coll79 said:

I feel God loves us NOT what religion we are. I believe that as long as we are true to God, Jesus and His teachings than does it really matter what religion we are that gets us there? We all love God and worship Him.

You are right God does love all of us regardless of religion.  But the rub lies in the second sentence. Yes if we are true to God, Jesus and His teaching then all will be well . . . but what exactly does that mean?

His teachings for example, you have been committing fornication with a man-is that being true to His teachings? Many religions today accept homosexuality as being fine with God, many Christian religion have open practicing homosexuals as Pastors, is that being true? How can one be true to His teachings, when each religion and sect instructs their followers that His teachings are a little bit different for each group. Each sect will take the same passages in the New Testament and interpret them a little differently and instruct their followers to live their life a little bit differently. How can one be true to Jesus's teachings when the actual instructions and implementation of His teachings means something different to each religion?

What you are saying is that as long as each person thinks they are following Jesus and His teachings God will accept them, regardless of whether or not they actually are following His teachings. In essence, everyone gets to decide whether they are accepted into God's presence after this life, simply based on if they think they are a good person. 

You yourself think, well Christian churches teach that sex outside of marriage is wrong, but I want that level of intimacy therefore it is okay.  I'm a good person, therefore it doesn't really matter that Christian churches teach it is wrong because I believe in God, Jesus and His teaching.  Well, either it is wrong or it isn't wrong. God isn't going to have one special set of rules just for you simply because you want that level of intimacy. Your philosophy leads down the path of everyone being their own god, their own arbitrator of what is right and what is wrong, their own decider of whether or not they get to be with God after this life.

Edited by yjacket
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Guest LiterateParakeet

Coll79, welcome to the board. I'm glad you are here.  I apologize for the rude way a couple of our members have treated you. They appear not to understand that one can have high love and high standards at the same time. We are all sinners and we all need Christ.  I hope you won't judge us all by their behavior. :(

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2 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Coll79, welcome to the board. I'm glad you are here.  I apologize for the rude way a couple of our members have treated you. They appear not to understand that one can have high love and high standards at the same time. We are all sinners and we all need Christ.  I hope you won't judge us all by their behavior. :(

Amen LP.  @Coll79 Not all of us are so rude to someone not of our faith.  I'm glad you are here.  I'm glad you are asking questions.  How else does one learn?  We want those that are not LDS to come here and ask the questions they have.  All of us who respond should be responding to the questions and not passing judgment which is what is happening. I hope those who respond in the future, can respond in love and compassion.  

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1 hour ago, pam said:

Amen LP.  @Coll79 Not all of us are so rude to someone not of our faith.  I'm glad you are here.  I'm glad you are asking questions.  How else does one learn?  We want those that are not LDS to come here and ask the questions they have.  All of us who respond should be responding to the questions and not passing judgment which is what is happening. I hope those who respond in the future, can respond in love and compassion.  

Thank you Pam!!!

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20 hours ago, Coll79 said:

To every one who has replied thank you. I would like to say to those who welcomed me. Thank You. I have read over everyone's advice and opinions and I thank you for taking the time.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if they feel that their opinion is important enough to share then I will be respectful enough to give it some thought. Doesn't mean I have to agree with it. He had to go to Maine and at the time I was not able to go with him. That is the cause of our long distant relationship. We know each other quite well. I should of mentioned that to avoid confusion. I would like to say that our relations that we had was before he converted, and not that is not an excuse to make it sound right. Because I know it's not. I will not deny that it is a beautiful expression that I will miss between us. We are imperfect beings, we sin. God knows this and he forgives us and still loves us. Now that my boyfriend is on this new faith path, I would never do anything to corrupt him or turn him away from God or the church. He is comfortable in the LDS faith.  I feel God loves us NOT what religion we are. I believe that as long as we are true to God, Jesus and His teachings than does it really matter what religion we are that gets us there? We all love God and worship Him. We are all on that same journey and will go to the same end, we are just taking different directions getting there. I know that some will not agree but that is their beliefs. And I don't say that to be offensive to anyone. I'm am only seeking how to make our different faiths work in our relationship. And I do agree with those who said to talk with missionaries and the church. I think going in person will give me a real perspective of the LDS faith and a better chance to learn and understand. And yes, I will open up to him and talk with him about all of this. I can't be scared of doing that. Everyone has given me a lot to think about and consider. Thank you again!  

You sound like such a beautiful person Coll79. Just reading your posts I can tell there is a warmth and depth to you that few others have. 

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