Considering a separation


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Emilyloo

I have been a divorce attorney for the last 38 years.

I never advised anyone to get a divorce and I wouldn't so advise you, either.

But there has been some good advice given here.

(And some off topic flak which is best ignored)

But I can tell you that many times filing for divorce caused a spouse to take actual notice of a problem, when they had not previously done so.

And I had quite a few after the divorce was final, and the dust settled, got back together, having finally realized that it was their best opportunity.

Sometimes it takes something to wake a spouse up, either an emotional outburst or some divorce papers.

dc

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I have no desire to impose my faith tradition's standards on an LDS audience. However, it might be helpful just to know how other faith communities handle marriage struggles. Most of our spiritual leaders would almost never counsel divorce. We would permit it in cases of unfaithfulness. When there is physical abuse we might counsel safety first, then separation. In this case, if the husband is refusing to provide for his family and is refusing counseling, it might come to the place where we would condone a separation. However, at least from some of the postings here, we would be much more cautious about saying the marriage is over.  There has been no unfaithfulness, no cheating. And no, "gaming" doesn't count as a mistress. So, we would want to hold out hope that the husband would come to his senses, realize his responsibilities, and return his devotion to his one-flesh love.

Offering counsel by post is always precarious. However, I am concerned that the OP "checked out of the marriage long ago." Even though the husband appears to have started this difficult dilemma, withdrawing from the fight for love, rather than engaging in the battle for the marriage, while understandable, would seem to turn the situation into one in which both parties will have work to do, if salvaging the relationship is possible.

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I was married for 24 years to someone who started out as a bit eccentric and selfish. He gradually became a monster. Some people will use all the rope you give them to hang them themselves. Once things have reached a certain point, you become an enabler. For the good of everyone, including your husband, go to your aunt. ( sorry about the underlining. I can't make it stop!).

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Guest MormonGator
13 hours ago, David13 said:

And you don't consider that bullying?  And completely off topic?  You need to take off your rose colored glasses.

dc

I find it highly amusing that people like you say whatever you want, as harshly as you can without regard to common courtesy or manners throw your hands up and whine when any of us respond in the same way you do to us. You can dish it out for sure, but you (an it's not just you, it's several others) can't take it.  I know for sure, without question that if you treated people in the "real world" like you do here, you'd be basically isolated from human society. 

No, it's not bullying. It's reminding people that your mental issues-even serious ones-are your own until you decide to take up physical abuse on another person. Having mental issues is sad, it's unfortunate and it's a problem-but it is not a license to use physical violence towards others. If you don't like that, well tell it to the judge when your foul temper and "mental issues" causes you to truly hurt someone. If you end up assaulting someone because of your "metal issues" the judge shouldn't do anything, after all. They'll just say "Oh, you didn't mean it sweetie. Here's a cookie. See you later!" 

Imagine if a boy had "IED" and beat around his wife and kids. Or destroyed his wifes computer. That's cool than right? No big deal I guess. After all, it's mental issues.  

Since the OP was talking about video game addiction and another poster talked about her mental issues that caused her to destroy another persons property, my post was appropriate. Destroying someone elses property-even if you have "mental issues"-isn't funny, isn't acceptable and is simply wrong.  

Edited by MormonGator
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I was actually going to suggest the remedy found in Matthew 5:29 for video game addiction!

Seriously, MormonGator is probably right, you probably shouldn't smash someone else's property (though technically here in Texas it would be both spouses' property).  But do work to get the machine out of the home, through persuasion or pleading or not paying the internet with your own money or whatever non-abusive means you can.  If hubby cannot handle video gaming without becoming unable to function, moderation is probably not going to work, so why have that temptation sitting there?

Edited by DoctorLemon
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Guest MormonGator
12 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

I was actually going to suggest the remedy found in Matthew 5:29 for video game addiction!

Seriously, MormonGator is probably right, you probably shouldn't smash someone else's property (though technically here in Texas it would be both spouses' property).  But do work to get the machine out of the home, through persuasion or pleading or not paying the internet with your own money or whatever.  If hubby cannot handle video gaming without becoming unable to function, moderation is probably not going to work, so why have that temptation sitting there?

Thanks DrLemon. I understand my wording might have been hash but my grave concern is it starts with throwing a tantrum that you "can't control" and destroying property-then throwing a tantrum you "can't control" and slapping someone across the face. Then throwing a tantrum you "can't control" and pushing someone down the stairs. 

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1 hour ago, DoctorLemon said:

I was actually going to suggest the remedy found in Matthew 5:29 for video game addiction!

No good; remember the screens are flat anyway, so killing his depth perception by yanking one eye out wouldn't really change much.

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4 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I find it highly amusing that people like you say whatever you want, as harshly as you can without regard to common courtesy or manners throw your hands up and whine when any of us respond in the same way you do to us. You can dish it out for sure, but you (an it's not just you, it's several others) can't take it.  I know for sure, without question that if you treated people in the "real world" like you do here, you'd be basically isolated from human society. 

No, it's not bullying. It's reminding people that your mental issues-even serious ones-are your own until you decide to take up physical abuse on another person. Having mental issues is sad, it's unfortunate and it's a problem-but it is not a license to use physical violence towards others. If you don't like that, well tell it to the judge when your foul temper and "mental issues" causes you to truly hurt someone. If you end up assaulting someone because of your "metal issues" the judge shouldn't do anything, after all. They'll just say "Oh, you didn't mean it sweetie. Here's a cookie. See you later!" 

Imagine if a boy had "IED" and beat around his wife and kids. Or destroyed his wifes computer. That's cool than right? No big deal I guess. After all, it's mental issues.  

Since the OP was talking about video game addiction and another poster talked about her mental issues that caused her to destroy another persons property, my post was appropriate. Destroying someone elses property-even if you have "mental issues"-isn't funny, isn't acceptable and is simply wrong.  

The sad thing is your assumption that I disagree with you.

 

But I want to offer a correction.  My mental issues did not cause me to destroy OUR property (We don't do that this is yours, this is mine thing... my tampon is my husband's too if he wants to go use it).  I was completely lucid, sane, in control, calm when I threw the game system out.  If the ceiling fan would have caused me to mentally check out of the family, he'd throw it out too.  On that we agree.  Your interpretation that throwing STUFF out is abuse is your own opinion.  Checking out of the family IS a problem.  It needs to be fixed by the both of us... or one of us if the other is incapable.

Emilyloo said this:  " I have cancelled months ago the internet service as well as made rid of the computer, smart phones, and the gaming system."  That is not abuse.

Edited by anatess2
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19 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

I have no desire to impose my faith tradition's standards on an LDS audience. However, it might be helpful just to know how other faith communities handle marriage struggles. Most of our spiritual leaders would almost never counsel divorce. We would permit it in cases of unfaithfulness. When there is physical abuse we might counsel safety first, then separation. In this case, if the husband is refusing to provide for his family and is refusing counseling, it might come to the place where we would condone a separation. However, at least from some of the postings here, we would be much more cautious about saying the marriage is over.  There has been no unfaithfulness, no cheating. And no, "gaming" doesn't count as a mistress. So, we would want to hold out hope that the husband would come to his senses, realize his responsibilities, and return his devotion to his one-flesh love.

Offering counsel by post is always precarious. However, I am concerned that the OP "checked out of the marriage long ago." Even though the husband appears to have started this difficult dilemma, withdrawing from the fight for love, rather than engaging in the battle for the marriage, while understandable, would seem to turn the situation into one in which both parties will have work to do, if salvaging the relationship is possible.

I agree PC, many times I'm a little disheartened by so many comments on an LDS board that advocates for divorce.  We should be defending marriage to the utmost, and not be willing to give advice to run.

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14 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

sorry about the underlining. I can't make it stop!

I've had a similar problem with strikeout because I use brackets to indicate changes to a quoted piece of text, and bracket s bracket produces strikeout font. When it happens, if you edit your post, and then copy the offending material and paste it back in, the filters ask if you want to remove formatting. Answer "yes" and the font enhancement goes away. You'll need to complete any other edits and change the problematic characters to something the program likes.

Lehi

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On 7/8/2016 at 7:16 PM, Emilyloo said:

When we have discussed this, the earlier sessions were promises to stop. More recently it has been about how so many other men get to play video games, why can't he? Why should men have to be the providers? He says he likes the marriage this way,

A quote that came to mind from Pres. Hinkley:

"“I pity the man who at one time looked into the eyes of a beautiful young woman and held her hand across the altar in the house of the Lord as they made sacred and everlasting promises one to another, but who, lacking in self-discipline, fails to cultivate his better nature, sinks to coarseness and evil, and destroys the relationship which the Lord has provided for him” (“Walking in the Light of the Lord,” Ensign, Nov. 1998, 99).

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1 hour ago, Eowyn said:

I thought we were talking about separation, not divorce 

Yes. The OP is considering a choice that cares for her and her kids while possibly and hopefully getting her husband to the rock bottom he needs without officially ending the marriage.

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Guest LiterateParakeet
On July 8, 2016 at 5:16 PM, Emilyloo said:

When I do pray about moving in with my auntie, I have received an answer that my kids need to be the first priority at this time.

Follow that.  Heavenly Father is the one who knows what is best for your situation.  Your kids depend on you, they need you.  So yes, I agree they should be your first priority right now.  

I like your idea of separation instead of divorce.  I think separating and living with your Aunt is a good way to put your kids first, but also the best way to help your husband. They say in Alcoholics Anonymous that some people have to hit rock bottom, perhaps you moving out will be rock bottom for your husband and be the hep he needs as well.  If he will take the opportunity to change, you will have saved your marriage.  And if not, it's not your fault.  That's my opinion.  

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On 7/8/2016 at 5:16 PM, Emilyloo said:

Thank-you for your thoughts.

So far...

I have cancelled months ago the internet service as well as made rid of the computer, smart phones, and the gaming system. I have computer/net access as work, library, and friends/family homes. He has a network of family members and a few friends he goes to in order to play. They say he needs time, yet they only prevent him from sleeping at their homes. I have stopped preparing meals for him or doing his laundry. He went to a few sessions of therapy and then stopped. I can't afford to go for myself anymore, though my bishop is trying to find ways to finance this. We barely talk anymore. When we have discussed this, the earlier sessions were promises to stop. More recently it has been about how so many other men get to play video games, why can't he? Why should men have to be the providers? He says he likes the marriage this way, but says he hates me for getting rid of everything and not giving him a way to pay for more.

He was always a gamer, but it went very bad about two years ago and I don't even know why.

It's been a huge, draining mess and I admit that I emotionally checked out of the marriage a long time ago. I have been praying for my marriage, which is why I don't want to do anything as final as divorce. But other people in my situation I have talked with say that they do have to put the typical marriage life on the backburner and work on other stuff for a time. That's what I'm trying to do. If I'm going to be the sole support of my kids, so be it. When I do pray about moving in with my auntie, I have received an answer that my kids need to be the first priority at this time.

No question he needs to stop, wake up, and support his wife and family.  

On the other hand...... you state: "He was always a gamer" and yet, you still made kids with him, stayed married to him, and let yes let it come to this point.  

I'm not suggesting you do anything more than look in the mirror and ask yourself how you let things get to this point.  Then take whatever action you and the Lord determine is necessary.  

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  • 4 weeks later...

When we were dating/engaged/first married, he was a gamer in the sense it was a hobby with him. He'd play maybe 5-6 hours per week, liked to talk about the games, had a general interest in them. Then things went downhill and I can't pinpoint what happened to cause a change.

So, I have been living with my aunt for a couple of weeks now. We have separate bank accounts so I have all my money. I feel so much better, less stressed, enjoying my kids more. I'm continuing to pray for my husband. He's called a few times, says he misses us, wonders how he'll make rent. 

His parents, however, are furious with me. They've been worried about his changes too, but now are worried he will become their responsibility. So there's that madness.

Just wanted to give an update.

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3 minutes ago, Emilyloo said:

but now are worried he will become their responsibility

But not concerned about their grandchildren and daughter-in-law?

Don't pay them any mind. Keep focusing on your babies. 

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13 hours ago, Emilyloo said:

His parents, however, are furious with me. They've been worried about his changes too, but now are worried he will become their responsibility. So there's that madness.

 

Assuming this is accurate (we only hear one side) it does seem that a certain amount of selfishness/self absorption was "inherited"

Edited by estradling75
fixing typo in post
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12 hours ago, estradling75 said:

Assuming this is accurate (we only hear one side) it does seem that a certain amount of selfishness/self absorption was "inherited"

Maybe but parents can be weird and who knows what story the husband is spinning to his mom and dad.

Edited by estradling75
fixing typo in quote
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8 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Maybe but parents can be weird and who knows what story the husband is spinning to his mom and dad.

What part of "Assuming this is accurate (we only hear one side)" did not cover that?....  I mean it was practically half of what I said.

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Dear Emily, 

as a hobbyist who ALSO enjoys gaming I sure as heck couldn´t do it all day anymore and if I do that happens like every 4 or five months with a solid interruption to bring out the trash and having to cook dinner. I do work and turning off when it matters promotes a healthy balance. Then of course you have people who immerse themselves, such as your still- husband in a selfish excess that gives the hobby a bad name. 

My personal opinion goes d´accord with Eowyns, pack the kids and move in with our aunt and finish your education. Your husband has clearly shown how self evident you are to him and as well as the kids and made his choice. You don´t have to preserve your marriage at all costs if the price is too high on your and your children well being for his highly selfish self indulgence. all good things in a measure. I wouldn´t call myself a gamer anymore because I have far too many responsibilities and a happy marriage to devote myself to as that I could invest a lot of time in there. Plus life does tend to have awesome graphics. The difficulty setting however takes a lot of work to master. 

If you work and he does not take care of the children and can´t even get up to watch the child, it is very dangerous to leave your kids in his care because we are not talking about a burnt pancake that got forgotten due to inattention. 

Not that I condemn him, he may have found himself gone too deeply and does not know how to stop. Maybe if you separate he comes to his senses and then I would say let him work very hard to make up for your grief ( and rent). 

As for the Update.

Seriously, your parents in law are mad at you ? They raised him and they sure as heck could have helped YOU with him if they wanted. They way it sounds they kind of dumped their child into your capable caring hands without ever having explained to him that a relationship takes responsibility and hard work. Let alone with the addition of kids. 

I am delighted that things work out for you now and it is stable enough to consider where you want to head with your life. 

Edited by Hemisphere
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The sad reality is, his actions are already resulting in choosing gaming over you, your children, your marriage... and any kind of responsibility. It sounds like you have made many attempts to help him and the marriage. Sometimes there is only so much you can do. You can't change him, but you can make changes on your end. He likely needs to have it all pulled from under him. To be forced to have to take care of himself. He may have friends and family who will put him up for a while, but they likely will have far less tolerance for him to freeload than you do, and will expect him to use the time staying with them to get a job, and on his feet. When he takes advantage and just uses people for crash pads and wifi, he will start burning bridges, and eventually be forced to have to do things for himself.

The general appeal to gaming is that it is a way to step away from normal life, relax, have fun. Normal people/ non addicts play it for those purposes, and as a hobby, but they still participate in normal life as well. People looking for an escape from real life can get addicted to gaming because it offers a way to be someone else. In the gaming world they can become some kind of champion that other people look up to, and are impressed by. So, if someone is feeling down in normal life, can't cope, has stress, or maybe even mental health issues, gaming gives them a chance to toss all of that aside to live in a fantasy world instead. Some of the same mechanisms are at play when people become addicted to pornography, gambling etc.... there usually are underlying issues at play that they are either running from, or trying to compensate for.  He obviously needs counseling to help find out the root cause of the addiction, and why he is choosing it over real life. He has to want the help, and be open to it in order for it to work though. Real life might just have to slam into him before he will face it.

 

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