2nd Amendment Rights Don't Apply to All???


Guest LiterateParakeet
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2 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

For those who say this isn't a Second Amendment issue, consider this if you will.  This article is a couple years old, but it still applies.  

<HuffPo Article>

LP,

Why are you bringing this up and requiring we stick to the 2A in discussion?  Your counter to this question was the HP article.  What does this have to do with the cases.  I'm trying to follow your logic.  I don't see the cause-effect relationship.  It appears to be a non-sequitur.

1) Sterling was a felon who shouldn't have had a gun.  So, why would we (2A proponents) be defending him?
2) The Dallas police shooting is bigger news down here in Texas.  Why would we (2A proponents) want to defend parties that ambushed police?
3) Crawford: EDIT: Just read up on it.  Again, this was not a 2A incident.  I'd actually make arguments in favor of the feelings you have, but they have nothing to do with the 2A, so I'll forbear.

Edited by Guest
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4 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

) The Dallas police shooting is bigger news down here in Texas.  Why would we want to defend parties that ambushed police?

In all fairness, I truly believe the vast majority of BLM is as horrified by Dallas as anyone. I don't think that's a 2nd ammendment issue at all.

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2 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

For those who say this isn't a Second Amendment issue, consider this if you will.  This article is a couple years old, but it still applies.  

 

 

 

John Crawford has had its day in court.  I understand you don't trust your justice system.  I come from the Philippines where justice is barely existent.  I have a lot of trust in the American Justice System (love the quote from that movie The Judge - something like, you put 12 ordinary people together, you present them facts, and 9 times out of 10 they get it right).

But, regardless of whether you agree with the verdict or not, there is something you can get out of the entire process... the facts of the case.

People don't just call cops because a black man bought a BB gun.  People call the cops when any man brandishes about a BB gun.  Cops don't just go into a Walmart and start shooting without provocation.  They give out instructions. 

Did John Crawford DESERVE to be killed?  Of course not.  But, what one deserves is only part of a court case.  Actions go with justifications.  Attitude counts.  Crawford WAS brandishing the BB.  The BB is easily mistaken to be the Real Thing.  Crawford DID NOT follow police instructions.  He got shot.

That's the case.  Judge it as you will but this is not about the 2nd amendment.  This is about responsible behavior in public and respect for authority as well as job competence.

 

Edited by anatess2
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Guest LiterateParakeet

@anatess2 I've seen too many in justices in our system to trust it. Blacks getting justice in court is about likeeping an LDS pioneer getting jusTice in Gov. Boggs county court.

 I saw the video John Crawford was just walking casually through the aisles talking on his cell. The man who called the police and claimed Crawford was pointing it at people was indicted for lying (he was not charged though.) 

Yea, people do make false assumptions and accusations. Not just in the case of John Crawford, but did you hear the story a couple months ago about when someone called police because a black man was looking in the window of an empty building. The caller assumed he was casing the joint, but it turns out he was an NFL player considering buying the property to open a gym--as I recall. 

Judge it as you will, but if these men I mentioned were white, they would almost certainly still be alive. If you doubt that I can get a whole list of white men brandishing weapons at police that were not killed on the spot.

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24 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

@anatess2 I've seen too many in justices in our system to trust it. Blacks getting justice in court is about likeeping an LDS pioneer getting jusTice in Gov. Boggs county court.

 I saw the video John Crawford was just walking casually through the aisles talking on his cell. The man who called the police and claimed Crawford was pointing it at people was indicted for lying (he was not charged though.) 

Yea, people do make false assumptions and accusations. Not just in the case of John Crawford, but did you hear the story a couple months ago about when someone called police because a black man was looking in the window of an empty building. The caller assumed he was casing the joint, but it turns out he was an NFL player considering buying the property to open a gym--as I recall. 

Judge it as you will, but if these men I mentioned were white, they would almost certainly still be alive. If you doubt that I can get a whole list of white men brandishing weapons at police that were not killed on the spot.

LP... you are fighting racism by being racist.  Stop it.

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Guest LiterateParakeet
3 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

LP... you are fighting racism by being racist.  Stop it.

So does this mean I need to show you the list of white men that I mentioned? 

The problem here is not me being a racist . . .

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2 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

So does this mean I need to show you the list of white men that I mentioned? 

The problem here is not me being a racist . . .

No... anytime you say White this Black that you are applying racist methods to solve racial problems.  See my post on the other thread.

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Guest LiterateParakeet
25 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

No... anytime you say White this Black that you are applying racist methods to solve racial problems.  See my post on the other thread.

I disagree. You cannot make the race issues in our country go away by ignoring them, or by calling someone who point's out the problem racist.

The emperor has no clothes. To say that only smart people can see his clothes does not change a thing. Truth is truth. We have a race problem in America. Study after study backs this up.

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7 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I disagree. You cannot make the race issues in our country go away by ignoring them, or by calling someone who point's out the problem racist.

The emperor has no clothes. To say that only smart people can see his clothes does not change a thing. Truth is truth. We have a race problem in America. Study after study backs this up.

Who says you ignore them?  I'm not calling you a racist.  I'm saying you are employing racist methods to solve racial problems.  And I just gave you a long paragraph about how People are Racists.  It's a fact.  It's not just a problem in America.  It's a worldwide problem.  You don't have to give me study after study.  I live it.

I repeat... SOLVING RACIAL PROBLEMS BY RACIAL METHODS LEADS YOU NOWHERE.  You can solve it without employing racial methods.  I gave you a solution - UNITE BEHIND A COLOR-BLIND CONCEPT such as The Constitution.  There are others.

Edited by anatess2
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I'm with anatess. The problem is that many people will recognize racism. But no one has one darn plan of what to do next. Give us the next step. What are we doing to strengthen communities? 

People are getting frustrated with all this racism talk because it has become, for many, the goal: talk about racism. What next?

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There was a case down in Florida a year or two ago.  A ccw holder got out of his truck and the cop who had stopped him went absolutely beserk and shot him.  Just from seeing the gun on his hip. 

There was a great outcry from the ccw holders about how job incompetent the officer was. 

Of all the people in the world who should not "freak out" when they see a gun, it's a cop.  Just about everybody agreed the cop needs to get into some other field of employment.

The same is clearly true of I think it's the Minnesota case.  After killing the driver the cop is still screaming like a banshee andwaving his gun around like a lunatic, with his finger on the trigger, pointing it at the girlfriend and the child.

Pure insanity and job gross negligence, far beyond incompetence.

If you don't think we believe 2nd Amendment rights apply to all then you need to find out who Colin Noir is.

dc

Edited by David13
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7 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I'm with anatess. The problem is that many people will recognize racism. But no one has one darn plan of what to do next. Give us the next step. What are we doing to strengthen communities? 

People are getting frustrated with all this racism talk because it has become, for many, the goal: talk about racism. What next?

Trump was interviewed a while back about how he plans to address the racial divide and racial tension.  I loved his answer in that interview.  I can't remember which interview it was so I don't have a direct quote, but it went something like this:  What we need is a cheerleader.  We don't need a cheerleader for division.  We need a cheerleader for unity.  I'm going to be that cheerleader.

I loved that answer because, 1.)  he didn't offer or even indicate to offer racist methods to solving racial problems, 2.) he didn't offer, or even indicate to offer legislation as a means of solving the problem.

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Guest MormonGator
21 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

 To say that only smart people can see his clothes does not change a thing. 

 To say "only smart people" when you argue about anything is, ironically, a foolish argument. Smart people come from all walks of life and can have opinions that you might personally disagree with. It doesn't make them less intelligent. 

You are right Lit-there is a race issue here in America. The one thing we can all agree on is that killing police officers isn't the solution. 

 

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4 minutes ago, David13 said:

There was a case down in Florida a year or two ago.  A ccw holder got out of his truck and the cop who had stopped him went absolutely beserk and shot him.  Just from seeing the gun on his hip. 

There was a great outcry from the ccw holders about how job incompetent the officer was. 

Of all the people in the world who should not "freak out" when they see a gun, it's a cop.  Just about everybody agreed the cop needs to get into some other field of employment.

The same is clearly true of I think it's the Minnesota case.  After killing the driver the cop is still screaming like a banshee andwaving his gun around like a lunatic, with his finger on the trigger, pointing it at the girlfriend and the child.

Pure insanity and job gross negligence, far beyond incompetence.

dc

Indeed. Are we really going to call this cop racist far above being fatally incompetent?

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Guest LiterateParakeet
21 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Who says you ignore them?  I'm not calling you a racist.  I'm saying you are employing racist methods to solve racial problems.  And I just gave you a long paragraph about how People are Racists.  It's a fact.  It's not just a problem in America.  It's a worldwide problem.  You don't have to give me study after study.  I live it.

I repeat... SOLVING RACIAL PROBLEMS BY RACIAL METHODS LEADS YOU NOWHERE.  You can solve it without employing racial methods.  I gave you a solution - UNITE BEHIND A COLOR-BLIND CONCEPT such as The Constitution.  There are others.

The problem is I disagree that I am using racial methods. I love the Constitution, we know that it was inapired, but considering we had slavery and Jim Crow under that same Constitution, how can we begin to think of that as a solution? 

I don't believe color blindness is the answer. People are different. There's nothing wrong with that. The problem is treating others as less than because of the color of their skin. As I said, the Constitution has done nothing to prevent that.

I believe it starts with education and people trying to understand one another. That is what all the talking is about.

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11 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

The problem is I disagree that I am using racial methods. I love the Constitution, we know that it was inapired, but considering we had slavery and Jim Crow under that same Constitution, how can we begin to think of that as a solution? 

I don't believe color blindness is the answer. People are different. There's nothing wrong with that. The problem is treating others as less than because of the color of their skin. As I said, the Constitution has done nothing to prevent that.

I believe it starts with education and people trying to understand one another. That is what all the talking is about.

No, that's not what the talking is about.  At least not on these BLM stuff that makes it on TV.  They're all about making accusations and demanding retribution.

P.S.  And a President who makes a speech validating one side and totally ignoring the other is not education.  That's increasing racial division.  Jesse Jackson calling Sterling's case a Public Lynching is not education.  No education happens there.  Education happens when a President - or somebody of influence - brings 2 sides together to listen to EACH OTHER.

The President says, "What if it was your son or daughter?"  Well, President Duterte's answer to that is - if my son is involved in crime, go ahead and kill him.  It saves me from having to kill him.  There ya go.

Edited by anatess2
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Guest LiterateParakeet
21 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I'm with anatess. The problem is that many people will recognize racism. But no one has one darn plan of what to do next. Give us the next step. What are we doing to strengthen communities? 

People are getting frustrated with all this racism talk because it has become, for many, the goal: talk about racism. What next?

I've had this same discussion with my husband. There are a lot of people working very hard to strengthen communities.  When I'm on my laptop...this phone typing is too slow....I'll give you some examples.

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Guest MormonGator
3 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I believe it starts with education and people trying to understand one another. That is what all the talking is about.

Absolutely. It starts with understanding and education-we need to find way to balance law and order and protecting our police officers with minority outreach programs. 

I'm just very worried that this war on cops will escalate. There is no excuse for this violence towards everyone. 

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2 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I've had this same discussion with my husband. There are a lot of people working very hard to strengthen communities.  When I'm on my laptop...this phone typing is too slow....I'll give you some examples.

I would appreciate that. I see crime and generational gangs and the very perpetrators defending their actions and it all eventually begins to feel hopeless. Some positive news would be nice.

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3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Absolutely. It starts with understanding and education-we need to find way to balance law and order and protecting our police officers with minority outreach programs. 

I'm just very worried that this war on cops will escalate. There is no excuse for this violence towards everyone. 

I hate to throw more fire in, but some psycho saying he wants to kill all white cops does not fix the problem and I don't understand the mentality that gets someone there.

Edited by Backroads
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Guest MormonGator
3 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I hate to throw more fire in, but some psycho saying he wants to kill all white cops does not fix the problem and I don't understand the mentality that gets someone there.

No, it doesn't fix the problem. It's a disturbing and deeply troubling response. We agree totally Backroads, 100%. 

I think it needs to be said that we are all praying for our beloved family members that are in law enforcement. 

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Guest MormonGator
3 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I hate to throw more fire in, but some psycho saying he wants to kill all white cops does not fix the problem and I don't understand the mentality that gets someone there.

No, it doesn't fix the problem. It's a disturbing and deeply troubling response. We agree totally Backroads, 100%. 

I think it needs to be said that we are all praying for our beloved family members that are in law enforcement. 

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Guest LiterateParakeet
39 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I think it needs to be said that we are all praying for our beloved family members that are in law enforcement. 

I agree. I'm horrified by the shootings of these police officers, and I'm praying for their families.

But I'm also praying for the families of Alton Sterling and Philandro Castile. Is anyone else praying for them? I'm not directing this at you personally Gator, just a general question.

I have to run, but I'll be back later to respond to others.

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Guest MormonGator
2 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I agree. I'm horrified by the shootings of these police officers, and I'm praying for their families.

But I'm also praying for the families of Alton Sterling and Philandro Castile. Is anyone else praying for them? I'm not directing this at you personally Gator, just a general question.

I have to run, but I'll be back later to respond to others.

I understand totally Lit and yes, I have prayed for them as well. But I speak only for myself.  

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47 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I agree. I'm horrified by the shootings of these police officers, and I'm praying for their families.

But I'm also praying for the families of Alton Sterling and Philandro Castile. Is anyone else praying for them? I'm not directing this at you personally Gator, just a general question.

I have to run, but I'll be back later to respond to others.

I think everyone is. Millions of people die every day unjustly. These two cases of seemingly unjust or just killings just got the media's attention because of the race of the individuals present, so we're calling for prayers for their families. So of course, those with a heart, pray for them.

But there are others dying today of unjust actions that won't get our attention, don't they deserve our prayers as well? Well of course they do. 

I've seen way too many people reach out to support the law enforcement community today and too many retort back that they're not supporting the men who died this week. Where was that ever stated? This just starts contentious conversations which leads to nothing. 

We all have a common goal (at least I know for sure amongst our LDS communities): to LOVE one another. 

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