2nd Amendment Rights Don't Apply to All???


Guest LiterateParakeet
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Guest MormonGator

Something I think we can all agree on is we don't want to see another person of any job or race killed. I'd like to say that our desire is enough to stop violence, but it's probably not. I'm very worried for the safety of everyone. 

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2 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I'm not arguing against wackos here and there.

I'm asking you to prove it's the standard.

What do you think I mean by "the standard"? From my observations, it's just the common thread that links many, if not all or most, adherents.

You say it's "wackos here and there". I'm finding them all over the place.

Lehi

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6 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Sorry I missed this message before.....They didn't say that, Fox news falsely edited the tape...and later admitted the lie.  I know a lot of people in the movement, and they are not as you say.  You've got it all wrong.  

I could be wrong, but I swear when this came out back in the day cops were with these people, mostly just having some mirth during a protest and it blew up from there.

 

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3 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

What do you think I mean by "the standard"? From my observations, it's just the common thread that links many, if not all or most, adherents.

You say it's "wackos here and there". I'm finding them all over the place.

Lehi

And I take media reports as representing the whole with an entire saltlick block.

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Guest MormonGator
3 minutes ago, Backroads said:

And I take media reports as representing the whole with an entire saltlick block.

Backroads you are on a roll today. 

It's the media, they'll take the extreme and try to present it as the mainstream. They do it with plane crashes, Zika viruses, everything. 

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Guest LiterateParakeet
19 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

If you don't believe it, go and read the news.

Dallas: five cops killed by a Black Lies matter adherent. A Black preacher says kill White USA. Riots with rocks (at the least). If any at all, only a few have passed these last months without just that: BLM whining that they gotta kill  cops and other Whites USAans.

Lehi

No, what i've read is that the protest was over when the shooting started.  One guy tweeted that he was there and at first they thought the sniper was trying to hit the protestors.  One young black man who was carrying a rifle in protest, was mistakenly shown on TV as one of the suspects.  He immediately turned himself and his gun into police and offered to help.  

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10 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

What do you think I mean by "the standard"? From my observations, it's just the common thread that links many, if not all or most, adherents.

You say it's "wackos here and there". I'm finding them all over the place.

Lehi

When I ask you to prove it's the standard, I expect a study showing conclusively a high majority representation participating in such behavior.

Your personal casual observations, I couldn't care less when you're wanting to prove authority on the matter.

Back it up with numbers.

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2 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

No, what i've read is that the protest was over when the shooting started.  One guy tweeted that he was there and at first they thought the sniper was trying to hit the protestors.  One young black man who was carrying a rifle in protest, was mistakenly shown on TV as one of the suspects.  He immediately turned himself and his gun into police and offered to help.  

What did you say that conflicted with what I said?

Lehi

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Guest LiterateParakeet
19 minutes ago, Backroads said:

Now, to pull out the honesty, I disagree with quite a bit of BLM. I think the movement has increased problems and many of the goals being asked for are matters I just can't politically support.

But... it does still have a few things I as a human must support.

I can respect that. :) 

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Guest MormonGator
5 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I can respect that. :) 

My only concern with BLM is that they can be selective with their outrage. Black lives DO matter-even if they are the victim of black-on-black crime or if they are black police officers. 

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2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

My only concern with BLM is that they can be selective with their outrage. Black lives DO matter-even if they are the victim of black-on-black crime or if they are black police officers. 

I think that, right there, is the problem.  BLM only reacts to black people dying when it happened during a confrontation with police, then they ALWAYS call it a murder regardless of any other factors.  Meanwhile the highest source of incoming bullets killing black men is other black men, but nobody from BLM says a word about it.  Meanwhile that very same phenomenon is glorified and romanticized by popular rap music and he whole "thug" image trash.

The results is that BLM looks more like an anti-police movement than a movement with any positive goals.

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24 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

They didn't say that, Fox news falsely edited the tape...and later admitted the lie.

That doesn't square with this.

It's the prominent BLM activist Bassem Masri's live stream uplink. (WARNING: Vile language, like most inner city people's speech.) Masri has been live-streaming demonstrations in and around Ferguson, Missouri.

I suppose Fox News edited his file?

Lehi

 

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Guest MormonGator
3 minutes ago, unixknight said:

I think that, right there, is the problem.  BLM only reacts to black people dying when it happened during a confrontation with police, then they ALWAYS call it a murder regardless of any other factors.  Meanwhile the highest source of incoming bullets killing black men is other black men, but nobody from BLM says a word about it.  Meanwhile that very same phenomenon is glorified and romanticized by popular rap music and he whole "thug" image trash.

The results is that BLM looks more like an anti-police movement than a movement with any positive goals.

 Amen brother. 

I've become increasingly concerned with that (and the anti-police movement), that's for darn sure. 

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12 minutes ago, unixknight said:

I think that, right there, is the problem.  BLM only reacts to black people dying when it happened during a confrontation with police, then they ALWAYS call it a murder regardless of any other factors.  Meanwhile the highest source of incoming bullets killing black men is other black men, but nobody from BLM says a word about it.  Meanwhile that very same phenomenon is glorified and romanticized by popular rap music and he whole "thug" image trash.

The results is that BLM looks more like an anti-police movement than a movement with any positive goals.

This is probably where I come from my belief the movement has caused problems. There are cultural images so promoted and visible they often drown out the reason and sense.

Of course this is purely from my own little vantage point.

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8 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Police KILL black men armed or not, all the time.  That is my point.  But Dylan Roof gets a hamburger.  

@Blackmarch true, but not good enough for me when black people are killed in such high numbers.  http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/12/28/3735190/killed-by-police-2015/

http://www.romans322.com/daily-death-rate-statistics.php

 

If we are going to paint the whole system with the worst of the worst, lets not limit ourselves to just police.

Edited by Blackmarch
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Guest LiterateParakeet
12 hours ago, unixknight said:

I think that, right there, is the problem.  BLM only reacts to black people dying when it happened during a confrontation with police, then they ALWAYS call it a murder regardless of any other factors.  Meanwhile the highest source of incoming bullets killing black men is other black men, but nobody from BLM says a word about it.  Meanwhile that very same phenomenon is glorified and romanticized by popular rap music and he whole "thug" image trash.

The results is that BLM looks more like an anti-police movement than a movement with any positive goals.

Thanks for sharing this, even though I disagree, it helps me understand better where some people are coming from.  That is helpful in these discussions.

My response is that blacks are aware of their internal problems, gangs, poverty, drugs etc.  There are people in black communities working hard to solve these issues, I've already given Backroads some examples (in one of these two threads).  The reason BLM complains about the police is because the people that are supposed to "Protect and serve" are killing them.  

You could think of it this way, suppose your kids are quarreling and the house is messy and dinner is burning on the stove. Meanwhile you have bills pilling up, and you are doing your best to keep it all together, but as you try to address these issues the people that should be helping you are bombing your house.  

Even if you disagree, try to stop for a moment and see blacks feel.  How can they clean their house when someone is outside trying to burn down the house?  

 

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3 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Thanks for sharing this, even though I disagree, it helps me understand better where some people are coming from.  That is helpful in these discussions.

Which is exactly the benefit of these discussions.  Echo chambers are boring.  :cool:  When somebody I respect has a different view of things, I'm interested in hearing it, which is why I'm glad you posted this.

3 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

My response is that blacks are aware of their internal problems, gangs, poverty, drugs etc.  There are people in black communities working hard to solve these issues, I've already given Backroads some examples (in one of these two threads).  The reason BLM complains about the police is because the people that are supposed to "Protect and serve" are killing them. 

I agree with this statement.  Remember I live in an area where black people are the majority, so I benefit from being exposed to that perspective.  It's so complex.  You have the generation who lived through the Civil Rights era who know have experienced full-blown institutionalized racism and tend to be more constructive in their views because they were heavily influenced by people like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.  He had a very constructive and highly effective approach.

The problem is that, as you said, they don't feel like the police will treat them the same as whites, partly because the media loves these kinds of stories but also because they remember a time when it was the police who enforced racist laws.  Some people can put that behind them, some can't. 

This mentality is naturally going to affect the younger generations, and that's the tragedy, because this is why these attitudes are perpetuated.  "**** the police* is as much about frustration from today's issues as it is about issues from 50 years ago.

So what's the solution?  Well the black community isn't going to be able to solve it alone, because this isn't just a black community problem.  It's an America problem, and all of us are going to have to bear the responsibility.  I find it irritating and destructive when I see police cars being burned in riots, or hear extremist protesters calling for killing cops, but what's just as destructive, in my opinion, is the attitude that local governments and police departments don't have to do anything and are completely blameless.  It doesn't MATTER what the proportion of blame is. 

Obstacles:  Racism (on both sides.  Yes, black people can be just as racist as whites.), history (which we all share), the media (which delights in stirring up trouble) and government (where political leaders stir up trouble too so they can have a platform to run on).

It's a big poop sandwich and we all have to have a bite.

 

 

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4 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

The reason BLM complains about the police is because the people that are supposed to "Protect and serve" are killing them.  

That's not their claim, exactly. They assert that the police are killing them without any cause. That's not only wrong, it's completely at variance with the facts.

Lehi

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Guest LiterateParakeet
8 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

That's not their claim, exactly. They assert that the police are killing them without any cause. That's not only wrong, it's completely at variance with the facts.

Lehi

Your opinions vs. their experience. 

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3 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Your opinions vs. their experience. 

What we know from the news. Which is nearly always from a left-leaning, and distorted "Blacks is angels, cops is pigs, USA is evil" vantage point.

Their highly biased, jaded experience.

Lehi

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Guest LiterateParakeet
41 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

What we know from the news. Which is nearly always from a left-leaning, and distorted "Blacks is angels, cops is pigs, USA is evil" vantage point.

Their highly biased, jaded experience.

Lehi

My opinions are not based on the news solely, but on my conversations with blacks and involvement with BLM.  I'm one of these people you speak of so I think I know a bit more about their motivations than you...who appear to have based your opinions on that biased media you speak of.

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Guest MormonGator
2 hours ago, unixknight said:

Which is exactly the benefit of these discussions.  Echo chambers are boring.  :cool:  When somebody I respect has a different view of things, I'm interested in hearing it, which is why I'm glad you posted this.

 

You are a rare breed Unixknight.

 In the society of today so many people just ignore the other side and don't have the ability of self critique. 

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57 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

My opinions are not based on the news solely, but on my conversations with blacks and involvement with BLM.  I'm one of these people you speak of so I think I know a bit more about their motivations than you...who appear to have based your opinions on that biased media you speak of.

And this is what I truly rely on. I know enough to realize the media twists things, skews things, and is far from an accurate and balanced view of reality. Do I believe there are some, even an impressive number of BLM people who are giving the movement a very bad name? (Now, I mostly do not base my disagreement with BLM on them other than the fact I think their actions are doing the movement wrong, but on my research of their goals which quite a few I just can't politically support). Sure. But I also trust they are the loud and obnoxious minority and that the real work is being done on a more peaceful level. I trust that Lit has a better view of the scenario than I do.

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