Whites more likely than blacks to be shot by police in violent crimes


prisonchaplain
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On 7/12/2016 at 0:49 PM, Traveler said:

I would point to Moroni chapter 10 that indicates everybody (note everybody) comes into this life with spiritual gifts and that these gifts are given to help prepare (learn) to come closer to G-d and his plan of eternal life and salvation which it a very high and sophisticated intelligence.

Nothing in any scripture I know of promises that all of us have the identical gifts. Quite the contrary. Paul tells us that some get one gift, others get different gifts.

I know about "To Sir, With Love". There's a movie of the same name, starring Sidney Poitiers. Lulu was also in the film, as well as singing the theme song you mention. The gist of the movie was not low IQ at all, but low motivation. Nothing in the film had anything to do with native intelligence.

Dr. Helmuth Nyborg (retired professor of developmental psychology at Aarhus University in Denmark)

Dr. Richard Lynn, Professor Emeritus for University of Ulster (IQ and the Wealth of Nations, The Global Bell Curve, Race Differences in Intelligence: An Evolutionary Analysis)

Hank Pellissier (225 Ways to Elevate or Injure IQ)
(Why is the IQ of Ashkenazi Jews so High?)
(COISER Orphanage)

More if needed.

Lehi

 

Edited by LeSellers
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1 hour ago, LeSellers said:

Just so I'm clear, what do you understand about statistics and averages? Because this is very clear:

Lehi

Holy Hannah Lehi, why in the world are you getting nasty? I asked for your interpretation of those statistics so I could be sure I had clarity before I responded. Is this how you communicate with everyone who dares ask you a question, or am I just lucky?

 

(Statistics which, by the way, I miss any sort of citation for; so as far as I know, they could come from aryansrock.com or your ear canal.)

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6 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

I asked for your interpretation of those statistics so I could be sure I had clarity before I responded. Is this how you communicate with everyone who dares ask you a question, or am I just lucky?

No, you're just lucky.

You and I have a history. You seem to want an adversary (a role I fill nicely), but I'm not willing to start down a road with built-in tire spikes. Your original earlier question, " Just so I'm clear... what are you getting at? A genetic component in IQ that applies to a whole race?" shows a narrow view of what statistics can show. No, there is no genetic component that applies to a whole race. Not all Blacks, for instance have the double "r" gene, but Blacks tend to have it more often than other races. Not all Indians have Elizabeth Warren's "high cheekbones".

Secondly, I did not say anything about "race", per se. You brought "race" into the issue, not I.

So, if you do not mind, I'll tread tenderly and get some sort of agreement on what we're discussing before we begin.

Lehi

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@LeSellers, why don't you take a break for a while.  I agree with many things you say, but your delivery is often poor and confrontational.  Give it a rest for a while and find a more reasonable approach.  @unixknight and I are often opposed on a topic close to me, yet he and I have never spoken to each other like you often speak to others, particularly @Eowyn

Edited by mirkwood
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Guest Godless
1 hour ago, Traveler said:

The notion of perfectly understanding is unacceptable to me - we either understand each other or we don't.  Just because you were an army truck driver in war-torn Iraq does not mean that you understand something that I or millions of others is incapable of understanding.  My initial response is that you as well lack a "perfect" understanding and likely have forgot essential elements of what it is all about. 

I also reject the idea that similar experience cannot be utilized to create understanding.  Every person that lives is very likely to have experienced being picked on.  My stand is that those that reject in some way, that others cannot understand basic human experience (including how they were picked on) and expand on such understanding - is a mistake.  Rather than look for excuses for misunderstanding we are all better served by finding ways to understand each other and assume that we can understand.  I am 100% convinced that anyone that thinks they and others can communicate what they have learned through their life lesson experiences are correct – those that think they and others cannot communicate what is behind their life lessons and believes are also right to think so – but the limitation when they exist is in the teachers not the learners.  

 

The Traveler

It seems that we both agree that educating others and embracing shared experiences is a vital part of creating a more unified society. I'm okay with small differences in opinion as to the extent to which understanding and empathy are possible. 

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12 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Sometimes it's great to be Asian.  We are not guilted into white privilege and we are not told we are black victims.  People look at us and think we eat calculus for breakfast.

One Japanese-American professor told me he hated that his math teachers assumed he was either slacking or failing when he got Bs in the subject, even though that was basically his ability.  Still, Asians are sometimes called "the model minority," since they outpace whites in social and economic success.

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7 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

One Japanese-American professor told me he hated that his math teachers assumed he was either slacking or failing when he got Bs in the subject, even though that was basically his ability.  Still, Asians are sometimes called "the model minority," since they outpace whites in social and economic success.

No such thing as "basically his ability" in the Asian household.  You get an A.  That's it.  B is Bad, C  is Catastrophic, D is Death (as in you are dead to me), F is Flipping Burgers For The Rest of your Life.  Doesn't matter what your "ability" is.  ;)

My son got an A/B Honor Roll certificate this year.  My mother-in-law was ecstatic, my mother was dismayed.  Truth.

Edited by anatess2
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18 hours ago, Godless said:

It seems that we both agree that educating others and embracing shared experiences is a vital part of creating a more unified society. I'm okay with small differences in opinion as to the extent to which understanding and empathy are possible. 

The basic notion of prejudice is someone that is drawing conclusions about others based on insufficient and inclusive information.  There are no two people in existence that have the same experiences and it is possible – even likely – that two individuals having the exact same experience at the same time will come away with very different results from the experience.   We human are capable of sharing ideas and things we have learned.  We can intelligently pass on information.  But it is not automatic.  It should not be a surprise but intelligently passing on information requires an intelligent giver and an intelligent receiver.  In short if we begin under the assumption that we cannot communicate – we will quickly prove that assumption correct.  But whenever two individual assume that they can communicate and understand each other – They will discover that they will accomplish greater understanding than they initially thought possible.

The next time you run into someone very different from yourself with ideas that you have never considered possible – rather than thinking that it would be impossible to actually share any ideas and learn anything – I am pushing the idea that there is an opportunity.  Rather than beginning with ideas of the impossible – that you believe in the possible.  When I complained that something was hard or impossible – my father would say, “Great people make difficult things easier and ways to make the impossible, possible.”  Then he would say, “Great people are just ordinary people that find a way to be great even if it is just for one small moment.

My father was the most ordinary great person I have ever known – everybody should, sometime in their life, get to know someone like my dad so that they can believe in the impossible when it is needed the most.

 

The Traveler

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13 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Asians are sometimes called "the model minority," since they outpace whites in social and economic success.

And their average IQ is 4~6 points higher than the average IQ for Whites. This is true in Japan for natives and in USA for both new immigrants and natural-born citizens.

(The only group with a higher IQ are Ashkenazi Jews, whose IQ is at least 110, with verbal scores exceeding 130 — spacial scores are "marginal" at only 100.)

Lehi

Edited by LeSellers
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Guest MormonGator
5 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Race is not, according to Bill Nye at least, a biological concept. It's a social construct. 

He's right Eowyn. Race is (at least to some degree)  social construct. I have no love for the Daily Koz or for Bill Nye himself, but I do agree with him on that, at least partially.  

To what degree is it a social construct and to what degree is it "biological" is the question.

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Guest MormonGator
27 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Yes, I agree race is a social construct.

It really is. Most things are a social construct to at least some degree. That's where gender roles come from.

Thankfully it is 2016 and the days where we blindly accept race/gender differences as strictly biological are coming to a close.

Edited by MormonGator
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3 hours ago, LeSellers said:

why are there races in the first place

Human nature is to break into tribes. Of course we would group ourselves by where we come from, and similarities we have. He suggests that skin color is more influenced by adapting to environment than anything. 

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@anatess2  The one thing that came to my mind over this week--could have been the hot Phoenix sun baking my brain--was the LA riots of the '90s. The BLM of that era was angry over the same issues today's movement is. However, there were no whites in the immediate environs--so the mob went after Korean shop owners.  "Why do you buy a shop cheap in our neighborhood, take our money, then give nothing back to the community???!!!"  The news images of store owners with shot guns, mobs seemingly bent on violence and destruction, were horrifying. I was teaching English at a Korean university at the time, and can remember some of the juniors, having just returned from mandatory military service (and perhaps a bit liquored up) yelling that they should go to America and help their fellow Koreans.

My point--no one is safe when mobs are coddled. BLM recently stopped a gay pride parade, until the organizers submitted to their demands. Who's really safe when we try to understand the motives and circumstances of lawless mobs, claiming to be the legitimate representatives of an entire race (or other aggrieved group)?

Edited by prisonchaplain
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Last night, Just_A_Girl and I saw Big River (a musical based on The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn) performed at the Hale Center Theater in West Valley.  The staging is really quite amazing, including the conversion of the stage to a river complete with floating raft; as well as an in-door rainstorm at one point.  If you're on the Wasatch Front, by all means, go see it.  (Review)

But what struck me most, given current events, was the sight and sound of a black man and a white man singing Worlds Apart together.  Here's a performance of the song via YouTube (link to lyrics):

 

 

 

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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Guest LiterateParakeet

Just saw this.  I think it is a really great summary of the REAL motivation behind the Black Lives Matter movement.  When I say, "real", I mean if you want to know about Mormons ask a Mormon, not a Catholic and certainly not an apostate Mormon.  If you want to know about the BLM movement, you need to listen to the people that are in it, not some random black person that disagrees with BLM or...cough...Fox News.....  Go to the source.

 

Edited by LiterateParakeet
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13 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Just saw this.  I think it is a really great summary of the REAL motivation behind the Black Lives Matter movement.  When I say, "real", I mean if you want to know about Mormons ask a Mormon, not a Catholic and certainly not an apostate Mormon.  If you want to know about the BLM movement, you need to listen to the people that are in it, not some random black person that disagrees with BLM.

This was no less propaganda than anything you cite.

Zimmerman certainly faced consequences for his self defense. Wilson faced faced consequences for his self defense.

The evidence shows all this video to be pure, unadulterated garbage.

Lehi

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I've been having this conversation with my husband, who is a bit more conservative than I am. Until last night we were really having a hard time seeing eye to eye (hooray date night). 

What I finally understood from him is not that he doesn't believe white privilege exists, because it clearly does; it's the term that he objects to, and I think his reasons are sound. 

It's not that whites have special privileges, it's that others don't have advantages that they should. I know it's a semantics thing that seems to boil down to the same thing, but words matter and they are important. Let me explain. "White privilege" (the term, not the thing) implies guilt that I should have because of where and when I was born, and my skin color. It's an indefensible entity for which I haven't directly done anything, but I'm supposed to feel badly about, and I'm supposed to know exactly how to express that I feel badly about it, and it has to be for the right reasons, and I have to fix myself and find the solution, but I'm not allowed to ask what I can do because the act of asking itself is a manifestation of my white privilege. 

Instead, the conversation should be about what is lacking and where, and what we can do about it. It should be collaborative. How do we fix the underlying issues that deprive certain groups of privileges and advantages they don't have? Instead of making me feel bad for being born white and getting angry at me for trying to figure out what I can actually do, let's talk about what's going on in your (general) neighborhood and my community and how we can work together to level the field. 

Edited by Eowyn
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5 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Instead, the conversation should be about what is lacking and where, and what we can do about it. It should be collaborative. How do we fix the underlying issues that deprive certain groups of privileges and advantages they don't have? Instead of making me feel bad for being born white and getting angry at me for trying to figure out what I can actually do, let's talk about what's going on in your (general) neighborhood and my community and how we can work together to level the field. 

Totally agree...  If I as a white male have certain privileges that are denied others because of the color of their skin or their gender then the talk needs to be about bringing others up not about pulling me (and others like me) down.

But when just about every instance the use of "white privilege" is about attacking me... of course I am going to get defense about the term...  And then they are additional insults by calling me "Fragile"   Which is just yet another attack...  Instead of a serious discussion about helping raise others up.

 

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15 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

If you want to know about the BLM movement, you need to listen to the people that are in it

What you do thunders so loudly in my ears that I cannot hear your words.

Lehi

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Guest MormonGator
15 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Just saw this.  I think it is a really great summary of the REAL motivation behind the Black Lives Matter movement.  When I say, "real", I mean if you want to know about Mormons ask a Mormon, not a Catholic and certainly not an apostate Mormon.  If you want to know about the BLM movement, you need to listen to the people that are in it, not some random black person that disagrees with BLM or...cough...Fox News.....  Go to the source.

 

I agree that you have to listen to them-but you also have to make up your own mind. If you go to the BLM movement for a moral judgement on BLM, you are only hearing their side. You need to hear their side of course (you are a fool if you only listen to one side) but you also need to listen to the side that says their tactics might sometimes be counter productive. IE-When they protest a highway blocking traffic, when they disrupt innocent people going to a mall or going shopping. 
 

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Guest LiterateParakeet
3 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I agree that you have to listen to them-but you also have to make up your own mind. If you go to the BLM movement for a moral judgement on BLM, you are only hearing their side. You need to hear their side of course (you are a fool if you only listen to one side) but you also need to listen to the side that says their tactics might sometimes be counter productive. IE-When they protest a highway blocking traffic, when they disrupt innocent people going to a mall or going shopping. 

I agree that one needs to listen to both sides of an issue, and mull it over, then decide for themselves. 

 I didn't expect that I would win anyone  over with this, but in this thread and in the real world a lot of false accusations have been made about what BLM is and why it exists. I just wanted to clarify what it is about so people can make more formed choices. 

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