For the Ladies, Who would you marry?

[mdfxdb]

Who would you marry?  If possible give a reason why one over the other.  Please presume you must choose.  A "neither" answer is not an option.  Choose one or the other.

OK,  Also presume you are in love with both of them, and you must decide.  They are worthy priesthood holders, kind to children, old people, and animals.  They love you, love your family, love the gospel.  They are currently everything a woman could wish for in a man with the exception of the aforementioned "flaw" which they have separately disclosed.  Now you must choose.

Edited July 15, 2016 by mdfxdb

[LeSellers]

I'm obviously not a sister, and won't pollute your poll results. But I am curious as to why "Neither" is not an option. Life does not force the hypothetical sister into marrying either of these brothers or none at all.

We had a topic a few months ago and the question was whether a brother should marry a sister "with a past". I don't recall responding, but the problem is real, and I think that there is too much cost in choosing someone with that much or kind of baggage, especially when there are Saints who don't come burdened like this. It's for the children, literally.

Lehi

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I chose "B". Easy choice because Im reading a book about pornography and how it effects men. The thing that stands out most is how porn is so different from real life....so boys and young men who are first introduced to porn and later to a real woman have very unrealistic expectations of themselves and their partner, and virtually no understanding of emotional intimacy. Sorry guys, but no way.

[Guest]

Impossible to answer since I can't pray about something pretend, and don't know other things about them, like whether they are kind, stalwart, hardworking, etc.

Porn does make me more reluctant, because of the way it pollutes and alters the mind.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Eowyn

[NeedleinA]

  - wrong gender observer

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Wow this book, Man Interupted: Why Young Men Are Struggling and What We Can Do About It by Philip Zimbardo  (famous for the Stanford Prison Experiment) is quite an eye opener for me. I didn't think I was naive, but apparently I am.

I was talking to my daughter about it, and about a popular porn site...she knew more about it than I did. I asked her how she knew all this when I didn't, she justlaughed and said everyone knows about that. 

I'll just end with....it's even more foul and degrading to women than I had imagined.

@LeSellers my guses as to the reason for the way the question is worded, the OP wants to know which one bothers women more. And yes, I would absolutely be more upset about my husband viewing porn than if he had an affair because porn is so dehumanizing to women.

Edited July 15, 2016 by LiterateParakeet

[zil]

5 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

dehumanizing to women

And in the process, dehumanizes the men who use it.

Edit: As in, makes them less human and less humane.

Edited July 15, 2016 by zil

[Backroads]

I played the game and picked a side. I picked the guy who had sex.

At least he's... um. .. connecting with people rather than wasting time solo.

[Just_A_Guy]

I've expressed this before, and I will create a break here because I don't want to influence the responses the poll itself, but . . .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It seems to me that a man who is going to have that many sexual partners in that short of a time, is simply implementing the thought patterns that porn use creates.  He's already thinking only about the short term gratification; he already objectifies women; he's already got commitment issues.  Realistically speaking, I doubt you'd find many (any?) men who were that sexually active, who weren't simultaneously using copious amounts of porn.

Mormonism, both socially and ecclesiastically, imposes huge costs on sexually promiscuous men; and those costs create a significant deterrent against fornication/adultery.  I rather wonder how many women who pick "option B", have ever been confronted with the reality of a partner who turned out to have been sexually promiscuous (or, for that matter, a partner who has used porn)?  Could the poll results be a matter of people picking the devil they don't know over the devil they have already met and hate?

Edited July 15, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[Backroads]

1 hour ago, LeSellers said:

I'm obviously not a sister, and won't pollute your poll results. But I am curious as to why "Neither" is not an option. Life does not force the hypothetical sister into marrying either of these brothers or none at all.

We had a topic a few months ago and the question was whether a brother should marry a sister "with a past". I don't recall responding, but the problem is real, and I think that there is too much cost in choosing someone with that much or kind of baggage, especially when there are Saints who don't come burdened like this. It's for the children, literally.

Lehi

I suppose it depends on what baggage and how it affects me. We all come with baggage. I'd say how the potential mate in question handles the baggage and how it practically affects my life is more important than what happened. I'd rather have the guy who has repented and come to peaceful terms with a biggie than the guy who in constant turmoil over something that could be considered smaller.

[estradling75]

I am going to have to agree with JAG...  Any man finding a new sexual partner about every four months is a man whose mindset is already damaged... I see such action as the logical end result of escalated Porn use (even if it happens without the porn)

 

On the flipside the poll clearly states Fully repentant, and temple worthy... So anyone that has ever ripped on a guy who comes and talks about dealing with his wife's past... well this is just putting the shoe on the other foot

 

[Anddenex]

4 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I chose "B". Easy choice because Im reading a book about pornography and how it effects men. The thing that stands out most is how porn is so different from real life....so boys and young men who are first introduced to porn and later to a real woman have very unrealistic expectations of themselves and their partner, and virtually no understanding of emotional intimacy. Sorry guys, but no way.

He forgot to mention, this guy contracted multiple STDs -- just saying

[Anddenex]

1 hour ago, estradling75 said:

I am going to have to agree with JAG...  Any man finding a new sexual partner about every four months is a man whose mindset is already damaged... I see such action as the logical end result of escalated Porn use (even if it happens without the porn)

 

On the flipside the poll clearly states Fully repentant, and temple worthy... So anyone that has ever ripped on a guy who comes and talks about dealing with his wife's past... well this is just putting the shoe on the other foot

 

Ya, the key term for me in this poll is "fully repentant" that is the key.

[SpiritDragon]

Are options A and B mutually exclusive? It looks like they are two sides of the same coin possibly. Also was either in a relationship at the time? So far I'm frankly surprised that the poll is choosing 100% the guy actually having sex with multiple partners over the porn user. I assume we have to be operating on the idea that the one only has sex, but never views porn and the other only views porn but never has sex (though presumably something else happens while watching?)

If history is to be the best indicator of future failings would you rather a husband that sleeps with other women in his weakness over one that stops at fantasizing about it? 

Perhaps it's also the numbers: is the suggestion of 40 pornos just too much higher than 10+ women? Did he only sleep with each once or was he doing so frequently and possibly with multiple partners at the same time? ie history of cheating. Do opinions change if the question is reframed to a man who has viewed 10 pornographic movies (of less than five minute duration - strip teases) and a man who has had ten plus partners without cheating on any of them - just burns through women? 

Let me just re-express my personal surprise at these results - does he have kids? could he have kids he doesn't know of? Um, yeah... the STD issue... that's really preferable to the possible (and likely) return of addiction at some point. I mean clearly neither is ideal, but doesn't the one involving other people automatically carry more baggage? What if it turns out that one of the women he has been with with ends up at his work place or in your ward.

(just to be clear I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or judging these votes thus far, I'm just shocked and expressing some of why I'm shocked)

[LeSellers]

6 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

I'm frankly surprised that the poll is choosing 100% the guy actually having sex with multiple partners over the porn user.

Only three have voted, so 100% is statistically meaningless.

Lehi

[SpiritDragon]

3 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

Only three have voted, so 100% is statistically meaningless.

Lehi

I'm still surprised. What can I say?

[Guest]

I'll answer to explain, but I'm not interested in debating my answer. 

Sleeping with real women at least gives him honest expectations of what real women and sex are. Pornography gives unrealistic expectations of both. Pornography objectifies women and makes the man's gratification the only goal. Depending on how hard core it is, it introduces expectations that can be distasteful right up to demoralizing. Pornography depict women whose reactions are not at all the norm for real women. Those ideas and images linger, and both husband and wife could be battling those expectations for the rest of the marriage. 

I did state that it's impossible to answer because of too many variables, but the answer I gave was on the assumption that the man who slept around was single at the time and either a convert or someone who had returned after a long period of inactivity. People commonly sleep with other people when they don't know of (or don't believe) any moral reason not to. The question states that the man is repentant, which to me means he knows better and his heart has changed. I know of men who are in covenanted marriages after such a past, and while the wife does have to conquer some jealousy of his past, it seems to me that a good, repentant man wouldn't be inclined to return to promiscuity.

I know from reading these boards and from a couple of guys I know IRL that even after repenting and ceasing porn consumption, the effects can be life-long. His heart may change, but he'll fight his body and brain indefinitely.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Eowyn

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

@Eowyn wel said. I second that.

[Backroads]

1 hour ago, SpiritDragon said:

Are options A and B mutually exclusive? It looks like they are two sides of the same coin possibly. Also was either in a relationship at the time? So far I'm frankly surprised that the poll is choosing 100% the guy actually having sex with multiple partners over the porn user. I assume we have to be operating on the idea that the one only has sex, but never views porn and the other only views porn but never has sex (though presumably something else happens while watching?)

 

I saw it as a game/discussion exercise. I decided to assume they were mutually exclusive.

[SpiritDragon]

1 hour ago, Eowyn said:

I'll answer to explain, but I'm not interested in debating my answer. 

Sleeping with real women at least gives him honest expectations of what real women and sex are. Pornography gives unrealistic expectations of both. Pornography objectifies women and makes the man's gratification the only goal. Depending on how hard core it is, it introduces expectations that can be distasteful right up to demoralizing. Pornography depict women whose reactions are not at all the norm for real women. Those ideas and images linger, and both husband and wife could be battling those expectations for the rest of the marriage. 

I did state that it's impossible to answer because of too many variables, but the answer I gave was on the assumption that the man who slept around was single at the time and either a convert or someone who had returned after a long period of inactivity. People commonly sleep with other people when they don't know of (or don't believe) any moral reason not to. The question states that the man is repentant, which to me means he knows better and his heart has changed. I know of men who are in covenanted marriages after such a past, and while the wife does have to conquer some jealousy of his past, it seems to me that a good, repentant man wouldn't be inclined to return to promiscuity.

I know from reading these boards and from a couple of guys I know IRL that even after repenting and ceasing porn consumption, the effects can be life-long. His heart may change, but he'll fight his body and brain indefinitely.

I can appreciate where you're coming from on this issue to a certain extent. I totally understand not being interested in debating. Sometimes it just seems like making any post isn't worth it because of the potential for things being twisted and taken out of context, or downright hostility. Even when done civilly it can sometimes just be exhausting to rehash the same thing over and over to clarify it from six different perspectives.

You're right of course that it's not really possible to answer the hypothetical.

[SpiritDragon]

19 minutes ago, Backroads said:

 

I saw it as a game/discussion exercise. I decided to assume they were mutually exclusive.

That would certainly appear to be the case. i do wonder however what the likelihood is of a man being so open to sexual activity with so many women while not also accessing pornographic material. 

 

[estradling75]

9 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

That would certainly appear to be the case. i do wonder however what the likelihood is of a man being so open to sexual activity with so many women while not also accessing pornographic material. 

 

Porn or not... it would seem to me that a guy having that many women... is doing so because he already has unrealistic expectations about women and can't find one that matches is fantasy/expectation...  Or in other words he already has the mindset/twisted understanding that people are afraid the porn user might get...

Or in others words lets avoid the man we think might have and/or get a problem and take the one that has proven that he does.

 

I get that porn is the modern day boogie man and we should be careful about it...  But there also plenty of time tested boogie man that we should not minimize or ignore in favor of the new guy

 

[Guest]

That may be, but in my mind it's more likely that your average joe doesn't have multiple partners because he's trying to fill an unrealistic expectation. I think it's more likely that he's having casual sex because people who don't see commitment as a necessary prerequisite have casual sex. 

And porn isn't a "boogie man", it's real, and it's an epidemic, and it's destructive to families and souls. 

[estradling75]

32 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

That may be, but in my mind it's more likely that your average joe doesn't have multiple partners because he's trying to fill an unrealistic expectation. I think it's more likely that he's having casual sex because people who don't see commitment as a necessary prerequisite have casual sex. 

And porn isn't a "boogie man", it's real, and it's an epidemic, and it's destructive to families and souls. 

And you don't think that the expectation of "casual" no strings attached is not exactly the kind of fantasy that porn is selling?!?...  That is one of the many "unrealistic" portrayals of women that porn is handing out.

And please note that I put Porn in the boogie man category in same as all the other time tested soul destroying sins say like murder, and adultery, and oh yeah fornication (otherwise known as casual sex)[Yes they are all boogie men]...  The fact that it is a "newer" problem doesn't mean we should think its worse then the other ones that have been with us forever 

 

[Guest]

It does feel a bit like this thread is a manipulation to downplay porn, because "at least it's not real sex". 

Pornography alters the mind and even physical responses. This has been proven. That is the root for my answer. But the whole premise is ridiculous, anyway. Why would I be in love with 2 men at once, and both with difficult pasts that I am absolutely forced to choose from? I'm the silly one for getting involved.