Why do you think God and Jesus have long hair and beards?

[Guest]

All leadership positions in the church and temple positions have to be filled by people who are clean shaven in the face and have short hair. You get in trouble at the BYU schools if you don't have a clean shaven face and short hair. Every prophet since David O'Mckay has been clean shaven without facial hair. Yet, in every description of God and Jesus they appear to have long hair and beards. Why do you suppose they have their hair and facial hair like that and what does the current church in 2016 have against facial hair and long hair when the 2 most exalted beings appear to be having so.

[LeSellers]

The standard of clean shaving started in the 1920s, following the return of USAan doughboys from France.

Prior to that period, most men had beards or mustaches, or sideburns (named for Ambrose Burnsides, federal Civil War general, whose sideburns were phenomenal). But the Roman army was clean shaven because a beard gave the enemy a handhold he could exploit: grab and pull. The invention of gunpowder and firearms made shaving unnecessary, so for the next three or four centuries beards were acceptable for soldiers. The British army even made mustaches mandatory for officers.

On April 22, 1915, the Germans attacked French, Canadian and Algerian troops with chlorine gas. From that time forward, soldiers were clean shaven so their field protective masks would seal and allow them to live.

The soldiers came home to cheering crowds and adoring women. They were heroes. And David O. M^cKay saw them and admired them — he and thousands of other Saints. And it stayed the same for a half century: men were clean-shaven because it was cool.

Then came Vietnam, and the protests; and one form of rebellion was the beard and long hair.

Rebellion is the original sin. Satan rebelled. We are not a rebellious people. So, with David O. McKay and his beardless chin from WWI until today with your bishop and his beardless chin, we demonstrate our obedience to even the mundane.

Lehi

God didn't rebel against His government. He can have any beard He chooses. LS

Edited July 16, 2016 by LeSellers

[zil]

Meanwhile, other than artists' renderings, and what we know about the culture Christ lived in during his mortality, I have never seen a prophetic description of Christ's (or God's) facial hair or hair-style (since the resurrection) (not saying one doesn't exist, just that I've never seen it).  So I'm not certain that the artists' renderings are correct (or not).  Nor do I comprehend people's obsession therewith (maybe if I could grow a beard I'd get it).

And the "cultural norms" explanation (i.e. what physical appearance represents "clean cut", "respectable" and similar things in current culture) has always seemed pretty obvious to me.

[spamlds]

LeSellers makes a good point.  Long hair and beards are often seen as either acts of rebellion or as signs of elite status.  I live in a university town and many of the university profs and their students wear beards as a sign of class and status.

When I was in the military, I knew several families where the wife was the service member and the husband was a civilian.  Very often, the husbands wore beards and longer hair to distinguish themselves from the other men on the base who were service members.  It was as if, since they didn't wear the outward signs of masculinity--viz., the uniform--they used the facial hair to project manliness.

Working men, particularly in the social classes that enlist in our military, tend toward short hair and being clean shaven.  I'm a martial arts instructor.  Longer hair gives an adversary something with which to grab you.  Many of my teen students start out with long hair and they end up cutting it after they practice the art for a while.  It's just a practical thing.  

Policemen, soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines wear short hair as a sign of conformity to a high standard of selflessness and discipline.  Our missionaries do likewise.  It's a cultural thing, to be sure, but there is a definite relation between class, conformity, and the wearing of long hair and facial hair.

[Guest]

Nobody ever says anything about my beard, and I'm in an auxiliary presidency. 

[kapikui]

8 minutes ago, spamlds said:

 

Policemen, soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines wear short hair as a sign of conformity to a high standard of selflessness and discipline.  Our missionaries do likewise.  It's a cultural thing, to be sure, but there is a definite relation between class, conformity, and the wearing of long hair and facial hair.

To be fair, it is vital that soldiers who may be hit by a gas attack be clean shaven because the mask doesn't seal quite right if there is hair in the way.  Having your nervous system turned to jelly because you wouldn't shave just isn't a good way to go. 

[zil]

7 hours ago, spamlds said:

they used the facial hair to project manliness

Must be a guy thing, cuz I've never seen a beard (of any style) and thought, "Now there's a (manly) man."  (So is this what guys think when they see another guy with a beard?)

[NeedleinA]

7 hours ago, Eowyn said:

Nobody ever says anything about my beard, and I'm in an auxiliary presidency. 

Just woke up, came here for a little spiritual pick me up.... @Eowyn, this is wrong on many levels.

14 minutes ago, zil said:

Must be a guy thing, cuz I've never seen a beard (of any style) and thought, "Now there's a (manly) man."  (So is this what guys think when they see another guy with a beard?)

@zil Are you serious? There are plenty of role models of manly-manliness with beards for guys to aspire to. How could guys "not" be inspired to grow one?

[zil]

6 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Just woke up, came here for a little spiritual pick me up.... @Eowyn, this is wrong on many levels.

@zil Are you serious? There are plenty of role models of manly-manliness with beards for guys to aspire to. How could guys "not" be inspired to grow one?

Yeah, that was, um, inspiring....  (Meanwhile, in unrelated news, maybe breakfast can wait another hour while I recover.)

[Edspringer]

13 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

All leadership positions in the church and temple positions have to be filled by people who are clean shaven in the face and have short hair. You get in trouble at the BYU schools if you don't have a clean shaven face and short hair. Every prophet since David O'Mckay has been clean shaven without facial hair. Yet, in every description of God and Jesus they appear to have long hair and beards. Why do you suppose they have their hair and facial hair like that and what does the current church in 2016 have against facial hair and long hair when the 2 most exalted beings appear to be having so.

The picture I use in my personal profile for this forum has me with long hair in the Saint Louis Missouri temple in a cold winter morning in 2013. 

When I was a teenager in the Aaronic priesthood, my bishop back then never allowed me to have long hair due to my priesthood duties.

Then I went on a mission in São Paulo, Brazil. I kept my hair short as part of the missionary dress and grooming codes.

I returned from my mission and guess what? I finally let my hair grow. I had it long for over 8 years in a roll. I went to the temple every year, served in church callings and was ordained a high priest during this period and served as a high counselor in my former stake.

Never a leader approached me and complained about my hair style. I can safely say that I was humble enough to get my hair cut if any leader had asked me to. Even my mission president never got bothered with me for having a long hair.

Once a woman in our ward asked my wife: “Why does your husband, a high priest, has a long hair? He has to set the example”. My wife replied: “Well, he’s following Christ’s example”.

About the appearance of the Father and the Son:

The Father: the only person who saw the Father in this latter-days and that could have provided us with a solid and consistent description was Joseph Smith, because he recorded his testimony of the First Vision. Personally I don’t recall any record of his or some acquaintance describing the Father’s look. If someone in this forum knows something about it, please tell us.

The Church’s Handbook 2 clearly states (13.6.15):

Portrayal of Deity

God the Father and the Holy Ghost are not to be portrayed in meetings, dramas, or musicals.

If the Savior is portrayed, it must be done with the utmost reverence and dignity. Only brethren of wholesome personal character should be considered for the part. The person who portrays the Savior should not sing or dance. When speaking, he should use only direct quotations of scriptures spoken by the Savior.

At the end of the performance, the person should not wear the costume in the foyer or elsewhere. He should change immediately into street clothes.

The Savior should not be portrayed by children in dramatization except in a nativity scene.

The Son: we have no description of the Savior’s appearance either, except the portraits we have of Him made by various artists, including LDS ones and approved and used by the Church.

I heard once from a friend of the CES that Joseph Smith said that the Savior has deep blue eyes. I don’t recall where this quotation is from.   

[Blackmarch]

On 7/15/2016 at 5:50 PM, Zarahemla said:

All leadership positions in the church and temple positions have to be filled by people who are clean shaven in the face and have short hair. You get in trouble at the BYU schools if you don't have a clean shaven face and short hair. Every prophet since David O'Mckay has been clean shaven without facial hair. Yet, in every description of God and Jesus they appear to have long hair and beards. Why do you suppose they have their hair and facial hair like that and what does the current church in 2016 have against facial hair and long hair when the 2 most exalted beings appear to be having so.

the meaning of the beard changes from generation to generation.

[Guest]

On 7/16/2016 at 8:02 AM, zil said:

Yeah, that was, um, inspiring....  (Meanwhile, in unrelated news, maybe breakfast can wait another hour while I recover.)

So, @MormonGator's beard is the REAL reason you left the compound.

[zil]

9 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

So, @MormonGator's beard is the REAL reason you left the compound.

In all fairness, and thankfully, even with the beard, @MormonGator is nothing like the, um, specimens @NeedleinA found.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, zil said:

In all fairness, and thankfully, even with the beard, @MormonGator is nothing like the, um, specimens @NeedleinA found.

Well, at least Hagrid has to live up to his name.

[Rhoades]

 

On 7/16/2016 at 9:03 PM, zil said:

I have never seen a prophetic description of Christ's (or God's) facial hair or hair-style (since the resurrection) (not saying one doesn't exist, just that I've never seen it). 

 

On 7/16/2016 at 9:05 AM, Edspringer said:

The Son: we have no description of the Savior’s appearance either, except the portraits we have of Him made by various artists, including LDS ones and approved and used by the Church.

 

I heard once from a friend of the CES that Joseph Smith said that the Savior has deep blue eyes. I don’t recall where this quotation is from.   

 

D&C 110:3 does describe his hair color as a resurrected being. 

Quote

His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow...

This was quoted by the first presidency and quorum of the twelve in The Living Christ at the turn of the century.  What it says is a lot like Revelation 1:14.  I think the description of his eyes might be more about the light emanating from them rather than eye color, but I don't know.  And some of the other descriptions in Revelation I take as figurative.  However, if we saw him I think we'd see white hair. (Based on other descriptions such as that from Lorenzo Snow via his grandaughter we'd expect not only his hair but also his hands, feet, face, etc. to be a bright illuminating white.)

 

When he was in mortality he might be like many orthodox Jews with a beard and sidelocks in keeping with Leviticus 19:27.  But that's only a guess.

Considering Luke 2:52 ...

Quote

52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

Even if it wasn't considered law, we could infer that he went along with social customs as he was growing up and before his ministry.  He probably wasn't trying to set trends or make statements with his hair.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Rhoades
Added that not only his hair, but rest of his body to be a bright illuminating white

[Traveler]

On 7/15/2016 at 5:50 PM, Zarahemla said:

All leadership positions in the church and temple positions have to be filled by people who are clean shaven in the face and have short hair. You get in trouble at the BYU schools if you don't have a clean shaven face and short hair. Every prophet since David O'Mckay has been clean shaven without facial hair. Yet, in every description of God and Jesus they appear to have long hair and beards. Why do you suppose they have their hair and facial hair like that and what does the current church in 2016 have against facial hair and long hair when the 2 most exalted beings appear to be having so.

 

At one time of my life I pondered on the appearance of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost and others.  Because of my success in empirical studies and logic I committed to research this as well as commit to include spiritual inquire as well (including fasting and prayer).  I will not go into all the details of why I was interested - only that I gathered all the "information" from every source I could find.  A study of the data was quite interesting and I will try to summarize.  Most of our concepts of what G-d looks like comes from our religious pagan roots.  Long hair and beards (including age maturity) has long into antiquity been a sign of divine power and wisdom - especially in what I would describe as "counterfeit" concepts - in short the philosophies of men mingled with scripture. 

With so many things in the religious community - it seems to me symbolism has become literal and we forget what the symbolism was intended to be and we go beyond the intention of a symbols purpose to some extension of meaning and define that as our truth.  And so it is that we see and represent those with ancient roots as beings as mature men with long hair and beards - in particular white hair and white beards.  The whiter and fuller the hair the more advanced are they considered in their craft.  In our modern times we see this symbolism surface in the characters such as Santa Clause and even Gandalf in "Lord of the Rings"

Spiritually I have come to believe that like so many things in scripture and revelation - symbolism is key but not an answer of itself.  Those that rely on symbolism rather than the source of symbolism will not have eyes that see nor ears that hear the divine wisdom and power committed to man.  As mortals we are endowed with a brain that recognizes physical features of individuals - much of which is centered around an individual's face.  In addition these features define for us beauty, happiness, compassion, anger and many other attributes.  However, the reality is that such actual attributes transcends far beyond appearances.

 

The Traveler

[nuclearfuels]

Not sure but probably since the Jews at the time the Savior was on the earth had beards...also, being bearded myself, it does add dignity at least in appearance

[Sunday21]

A beard hides a multitude of chins.

[Guest MormonGator]

21 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

A beard hides a multitude of chins.

Ouch! I only weigh around 160! 

[Jamie123]

On 16/07/2016 at 1:47 AM, LeSellers said:

The British army even made mustaches mandatory for officers. 

Not just for officers. All soldiers, from the privates right up to the generals were forbidden to shave their upper lip. 

Edited July 27, 2016 by Jamie123

[Jojo Bags]

Maybe it's because they don't shave or have a barber?

[Guest]

I have given this some thought and I've come to a personal conclusion.  They have long hair and beards because of recognition.  In ancient times, they had them because humans had them.  It was a "token" condescension.  In modern times (specifically the D&C) they do it because of recognition.

[JonnieZ]

Well, to play for the Yankees you have to be well groomed with no facial hair.