Temple Marriage - Not quite ready to have kids? Advice please

[LdsGuy555]

tl;dr

 

Married, no kids yet. I want a family, but my wife is difficult to live with and has issues that may get in the way of her being a mother that can tend to a child's emotional needs. Read on for specifics.

 

--

 

First of all, I want to start a family. I want children. However I want to do it right. I understand that no relationship is perfect and there is not perfect time to start having kids. We have been married for three years now and my younger brothers both have a baby / is pregnant.

 

So my wife is a very nice girl who has good intentions. I still love her. However she is very difficult to live with. Here is a list of things that make me think that we aren't ready to raise an innocent child (no one item here is grounds to say that but the list as a whole may be)

• She does not do well under stress. 

• Rarely has an opinion. 

• Doesn't react when I talk to her or even say anything to confirm she hears me. 

• She has a hard time starting projects on her own without the help of others.

• Very immature

• Lack of caring for others including myself (at least doesn't show or act)

• Passive agressive

• Skewed sense of reality

• Misinterprets most of what I say to be negative

• During normal conversation she asks why we are arguing/fighting and gets defensive, passive aggressive and hostile, accuses me of being mean and hurtful

• Is always a victim

• Oversensitive to criticism

• Doesn't have passions and ambitions other than having a family. In fact she can be obsessive of the idea of having kids

• Can't get a job

• Doesn't try to get a job (even though she says she is)

• Has next to no patience with myself with others and herself

• Seems like she is sad a lot or depressed usually over circumstanses that she wished had been better (more friends, job, baby, money, etc)

• Has general/social anxiety disorder

• Cries excessively when we get into an argument or things don't go her way.

• Resents her parents for never being there for her.

• A lot of things are triggering and she holds a lot of anger over certain issues that have affected her adversely.

• She gets very critical and defensive.

• Has trouble seeing and valuing certain things as important.

 

The list goes on. I feel that we can’t even solve basic things or make life decisions without a big fight. My thought is if we can't get the basics down, how do we expect to raise a child?

 

We have been to numerous therapists, tried medications, etc about anxiety. Her therapist tells me it may be more than anxiety. I personally suspect bipolar disorder, avoidant personality disorder, or dependent personality disorder (nothing conclusive yet though). He says she has a lot of anger and hate inside of her. He recommends holding off on children until we resolve some issues first as they can have monumental consequences when raising a child.

 

So what do I do? Wait it out and hope for the best? Take a leap of faith, suck it up and start a family? Sometimes I feel that the quickest way to starting a healthy family is with another woman, but I have been taught that divorce is not an option (as we have a temple marriage and have made covenants) and marriage is for better or for worse. I am very confused and feel the clock ticking. Any thoughts?

 

 

[zil]

Do the Sunday School answers with real intent.  Search and study the scriptures and most recent General Conference talks for at least 30 minutes per day, at least some of this should be together, with discussion of what the teachings mean in your lives.  Pour out your souls to God in prayer, alone and together.  Go to the temple frequently to participate in all the ordinances there.  Make sure your home has at least one temple picture and one picture of the Savior prominently visible.  Accept and magnify callings.  Prepare in advance for partaking of the Sacrament and actively participating in Sunday meetings.  Counsel with your bishop.  Stop making lists of what's wrong with her (or each other) and instead, prayerfully pick one way to improve as individuals and / or as a couple, and pursue that as if your lives depended on it.  When you've mastered it, pick another.

Continue to see a counselor if it helps. If it doesn't help, find another, or find something else.  Go together as well as individually.

Some blessings come because we act in faith.  Only God can tell you whether it's right for you to start a family right now, but there are surely blessings which will come from acting in faith (which is not the same as deciding you've waited long enough).

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I think you are right to hold off for now on children.  Being a mother is hard and stressful (and yes, awesome too, but for someone who is already under a great deal of pressure...)  

Keep going to therapy and as zil said, fast, pray, get blessings, etc with real intent.  You may already be doing these things....some prayers take time...even years for answers to come. I'm sorry both you and your wife have to deal with this challenge.  

ETA: Having a baby in this situation, unless the Spirit tells you very directly to do so, is not a leap of faith, it's just wishful thinking. I'm really sorry because I know you want children, but I think you should wait.

Edited July 17, 2016 by LiterateParakeet

[prisonchaplain]

Beyond walking your spouse through the many struggles she faces, make sure to find time, space, and fellowship to maintain your own health (physical, spiritual, emotional). The only way we can support our loved ones, when they are not well, is to keep ourselves strong--through our Master's empowerment. 

[Just_A_Guy]

Even if she gets all this under control, pregnancy and its associated hormone changes might throw you right back to square one again.  IMHO you should do your homework with the medical/psychological literature, look into support groups for spouses of people with similar issues, and put a lot of thought into whether children will ever be a realistic possibility.

If you don't mind my asking:  were you aware of these issues when you got married?

[estradling75]

The role of husband and father are  the correct roles that you should be striving for....  From what you say helping your wife reach the level in which she can be a mother is the direction that both of your roles point you toward...  Right now... that is how you fulfill your role and stewardship in both.

In helping your wife you must always follow the instruction in D&C 121.  Its about use of priesthood authority, which is exactly the only kind of authority you have here.

In the end you can not change your wife... you can help and support and encourage... but the only change you can make is to yourself and your responses to the situation...

So address the only factor you can change and control (ie yourself)..... that is a mighty large list of your wife's flaws...  I would like you to now pull out the list of all your wife's merits and positives...  Do you have such a list?  Is it bigger?  If not then that is something you can actively work on.  Focus on and document your wife's positive traits and encourage them.  If you feel you have to work to find them then.... get to work.

 

In addition to what has been recommended above this will help you become more Christ-like.  Which is going to be good for you, your marriage, and your wife no matter what else might happen

 

 

[NeedleinA]

9 hours ago, LdsGuy555 said:

I am very confused and feel the clock ticking. Any thoughts?

As you try to understand the root cause of your wife's issues, have you ever considered the possibility that your wife may have experienced some kind of trauma in her earlier years that she hasn't either shared with you or learned to deal with yet herself? As you attempt to help her, and as you go through the various checklist possibilities of what is going on, might I suggest you also specifically ask her this. Is she bottling up and secretly dealing with some kind of physical/sexual abuse that you are unaware of? Your laundry list of "issues" appear to simply be the manifestations of an underlying problem. What is the actual cause? I don't know, but I would never discount the possibility that she is struggling with some kind trauma that you are unaware of. Unless you specifically/directly ask, she may never willingly offer up this information.

Ignore the ticking clock. Help heal your wife first, then worry about kids. Simply some thoughts for your consideration.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

And how does she feel about having kids?  That's an important factor.  Mental health issues (if that really is the problem) can be resolved with the right treatment, but finding something that works can take time, it is far more art than science at this point.  I think her mental health should be the priority now, pregnancy is hard enough on a woman's mood by itself with the hormonal changes that happen.  Once that is at a stable point then consider having children.  Also some mental illnesses are genetic conditions, so your kids could wind up with it too.  Take my word for it, it can be REALLY hard  to tell the difference between a teen with mental health issues and one that is rebellious or overflowing with teen angst.

One treatment you might want to consider visit http://www.truehope.com/   It doesn't work for everybody, but I have family members who have had great results from it.

[LdsGuy555]

4 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Even if she gets all this under control, pregnancy and its associated hormone changes might throw you right back to square one again.  IMHO you should do your homework with the medical/psychological literature, look into support groups for spouses of people with similar issues, and put a lot of thought into whether children will ever be a realistic possibility.

If you don't mind my asking:  were you aware of these issues when you got married?

No I wasn't. Things were much different when we were dating. It wasn't until after when life set in. She found out she had anxiety and her whole world started to end. Right now I think anxiety is the tip of the iceberg.

[tesuji]

To add my two cents:

The decision to have kids is something you must both decide together. In general, I believe the church counsels to just have kids and figure it out as you go. However, I strongly suggest you talk to your bishop to get the official church counsel on this. And get his advice about your specific situation.

From your description, it does sound like your wife has physical and/or emotional challenges. Nothing wrong with that - most people do, I believe. However, I would ask her to get a full physical and mental evaluation, to find out where you are at. Continued marriage counselling and therapy appear to be needed, from what you described, but I'm not any kind of expert.

Again, there is nothing with having problems or needing counselling. The more mentally healthy the parents, the better off the kids will be, obviously. So counselling is work toward being better parents.

And it takes two to tango - are there things you yourself need to work on? I'd be surprised it all the problems were 100% your wife's fault. Forgive me for being frank, but you asked for our views.

These things manifested more strongly after you got married? Well dating people are perfect people, right? We all want to be our best selves when dating.

After marriage, then reality comes out. In my experience, it's also a lot easier to be single than married. Having kids adds even more challenge to that. So you don't even realized how much growing you still need to do, or how immature you actually are, until you have a spouse and kids. I thought I was a pretty good person until I got married and had to deal with a spouse. Then kids showed me I had even more growing I needed to do than I thought. I think it's part of God's plan - put us into the challenges of marriage, to make us grow.

You talked about finding a different wife. Of course, this is contrary to your temple marriage covenants.

Marriage means committing and loving the other people. It's also part of the plan - to teach us to really love someone, which means serve that person, be patient with them - not just the feeling of being in love, which is often not permanent and is kinda superficial. Love means serving and not abandoning someone. Really loving. Like Jesus loved. (In exceptional cases such as abuse, infidelity, etc - that's different. Talk to your bishop in those cases. But that doesn't sound like where you're at.)

Best of luck. I admire your effort to do what is right.

 

Edited July 17, 2016 by tesuji

[Latter-Day Marriage]

1 hour ago, LdsGuy555 said:

No I wasn't. Things were much different when we were dating. It wasn't until after when life set in. She found out she had anxiety and her whole world started to end. Right now I think anxiety is the tip of the iceberg.

You are blessed to live in an age where science can help, and where new discoveries are possible.  On top of that there is the resurection where she will be free from such things.  It may be hard now, but hang in there and show her how much you love her and how committed you are to her by sticking with her.  Don't take the behaviour that results from her condition as personal, write if off as just being a symptom of her situation.

Putting it in computer terms, mental illness is a hardware problem, not a software problem.  You can't fix a hardware problem with a software upgrade, and a person with a mental illness can't just learn or choose to feel better.

[LdsGuy555]

12 hours ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

Putting it in computer terms, mental illness is a hardware problem, not a software problem.  You can't fix a hardware problem with a software upgrade, and a person with a mental illness can't just learn or choose to feel better.

That is what I suspected and that is an excellent way of putting it!

[LdsGuy555]

14 hours ago, tesuji said:

And it takes two to tango - are there things you yourself need to work on? I'd be surprised it all the problems were 100% your wife's fault. Forgive me for being frank, but you asked for our views.

Thank you for keeping things in perspective. I understand this isn't a completely fair discussion as she isn't here to defend herself. I will say this though. I am not perfect and I do not claim to be. Life can be rough for all of us. That is what we signed up for in the beginning. I understand that all I can change is me and my reaction to the things she does and says.

I do want things to get better between us but my main concern isn't me and how much easier my life would be without this mess, my real concern lies with my future children. The things I have read scare me regarding mother's with the kind of personality disorder that I highly suspect she has. Their emotional needs will not be met at least by her. They begin to question if she loves her and why they are here. The same personality disorder she has is most likely to be inherited. And that's just the beginning.

I know this sounds like I am overthinking things here. I am just concerned. And maybe like I have said, I just need to take a leap of faith and trust the Lord. But I also know that we need to do all that we can in order for that to happen.

About leaving her, if course I do not want to do that. I still do love her and I am aware of the covenants I have made. I understand marriage isn't easy and I am not going to just bail at the first sign of friction or pain. I feel that I am not to have children now. I really want a family of my own. It is not a race but I see my younger brothers having children with their wives. I see how happy they are. I want that. And no it is not personal gratification, it is selfless because I want to give of myself to care for an innocent life I would help bring into this world. Anyways I feel that we aren't progressing. It's been about four years now and we're not getting any younger.

[tesuji]

1 hour ago, LdsGuy555 said:

Thank you for keeping things in perspective. I understand this isn't a completely fair discussion as she isn't here to defend herself. I will say this though. I am not perfect and I do not claim to be. Life can be rough for all of us. That is what we signed up for in the beginning. I understand that all I can change is me and my reaction to the things she does and says.

I do want things to get better between us but my main concern isn't me and how much easier my life would be without this mess, my real concern lies with my future children. The things I have read scare me regarding mother's with the kind of personality disorder that I highly suspect she has. Their emotional needs will not be met at least by her. They begin to question if she loves her and why they are here. The same personality disorder she has is most likely to be inherited. And that's just the beginning.

I know this sounds like I am overthinking things here. I am just concerned. And maybe like I have said, I just need to take a leap of faith and trust the Lord. But I also know that we need to do all that we can in order for that to happen.

About leaving her, if course I do not want to do that. I still do love her and I am aware of the covenants I have made. I understand marriage isn't easy and I am not going to just bail at the first sign of friction or pain. I feel that I am not to have children now. I really want a family of my own. It is not a race but I see my younger brothers having children with their wives. I see how happy they are. I want that. And no it is not personal gratification, it is selfless because I want to give of myself to care for an innocent life I would help bring into this world. Anyways I feel that we aren't progressing. It's been about four years now and we're not getting any younger.

I wish you the best in deciding what to do.

Obviously, prayer and fasting is a good idea. And counselling with your wife and bishop.

There are plenty of less than perfect mothers out there but the Lord sends kids to those families anyway.

Personally, I would say that if the decision comes down to loving your wife and keeping your temple marriage covenant, or leaving her for someone who can raise kids better, I would say stay with your wife and love her. Having kids is not as important as having a celestial marriage, as long as in your heart you want kids and would have them if you could. If it really came down to that point, then maybe later you could adopt or become foster parents, or serve kids in another way. (One idea: give free babysitting to young mothers who can't afford babysitters. They can really use a break.) You and your wife will have kids in the eternities, too, if you are faithful.

Counselling can really help, if a person really wants to work to improve.

This is all my attempt to give advice that I hope may help out. Of course, the decision is yours. I'm not saying have kids if you don't think it's the right decision right now.

Edited July 18, 2016 by tesuji

[Connie]

I would be interested in seeing a list of her good qualities. I assume she has some or you wouldn’t have married her in the first place or stay married to her. Do you regularly tell her why you love her and encourage her goodness? There’s a lot to be said for seeing the potential in people—seeing them as they could be—that really encourages them to become better.

[copic_crack]

No. You do not bring children into an abusive situation. If you willingly bring them into your current home life, know they WILL be messed up psychologically by your wife for the rest of their lives. I have an emotionally abusive parent and I eventually had to cut them out of my life and am still dealing with the real emotional and physical consequences of that relationship. DON'T. DO. IT. If you do so while allowing the status quo, you are enabling child abuse.

From your list, it doesn't sound like you like this woman at all. Actually, it sounds like you hold a lot of resentment toward her. I would feel the same if I was in your shoes. You both should be seeking therapy separately on a regular basis. She needs to see a psychiatrist, doctor and therapist. Counseling  alone is not going to cut it. On a spiritual level, working with both God and your Bishop about this would be great. It at least sounds like she is emotionally abusive and should be working through her sin and seeking healing from Christ and medical professionals. If she will not agree to seek help...I don't think anyone should be in a relationship with an abuser, but that is up to you. 

Sorry if I'm a bit passionate. Coming from a broken home, it gets me riled up when adults bring children into that sort of situation.

Edited July 19, 2016 by copic_crack

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

18 hours ago, LdsGuy555 said:

maybe like I have said, I just need to take a leap of faith and trust the Lord. But I also know that we need to do all that we can in order for that to happen.

It really concerns me that you keep referring to a "leap of faith".  Many people have misunderstandings about faith, but this one could really hurt your future children, so please consider this...it would only be a leap of faith if the Lord specifically tells you to go ahead and have children in spite of these issues.  As you also said, you need to do all you can...in this case that means NOT having children unless you are told directly by the Spirit to do so.  If that is the case, there's no need to ask us what to do.  Follow the Spirit. 

Like Copic_crack, I know from personal experience what it is like to grow up in a dysfunctional, abusive home.  I have been in therapy for six years....is that what you want for your children?  Even worse, as my therapist explained to me, victims of abuse who do not get help perpetuate that abuse...they are compelled to do so.  If you want to know more about that a good place to start is the book, Getting the Love You Want by Harville Hendrix PhD.   For now, please understand that bringing children into what you KNOW is a bad situation, is not only hurting them, but very likely your future grandchildren and great-grandchildren as well...as each generation passes their pain onto the next.

Let me put this another way.  I have known people that want to sell their house, so they put a sign in the yard and then do virtually nothing else, but "wait on the Lord." 

"If God wants us to move it will sell." They say.  

God doesn't work like that.  Trust me.  If the Lord wants you to have children, He will tell you in a very clear way for example through a Priesthood Blessing, or a very strong spiritual prompting...either one should be followed by a feeling of PEACE.  Peace is the only thing Satan can't mimic.  If you feel PEACE, then you can take a leap of faith.  Everything else is just wishful thinking.  

Edited July 19, 2016 by LiterateParakeet

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

18 hours ago, LdsGuy555 said:

I really want a family of my own. It is not a race but I see my younger brothers having children with their wives. I see how happy they are. I want that. And no it is not personal gratification, it is selfless because I want to give of myself to care for an innocent life I would help bring into this world.

I am truly sorry.  I imagine this all must be very painful. I believe you that your desire to have children is selfless.  It could be that for now though, Heavenly Father needs you to continue to selflessly love your wife and help her.  Promises have been made to people who are not able to have children in this life that they will be able to have them in the next life.  There may yet be time for you to have children in this life, I don't know.  I'm sorry for your pain.  This is where you need to take that leap of faith and trust the Lord's timing.