Question and advice

[Faith_In_Every_Footstep]

A family member has opened up to me and has expressed that he may be at risk for excommunication. He is going to be seen by a church disciplinary council soon. Although he did some things he wasn't supposed to I know he is a wonderful person and that while it hurts to be in this situation, everything will still be ok. He has expressed the same sentiments. He and I were wondering about how long (if he were to be excommunicated) would it take to be rebaptized? And later to receive his endowments again? 

We also would like to know, what is some good advice to follow while he tries to comeback. Church articles on excommunication, personal experiences anyone is willing to share, church music etc. He is already eager and seeking ways to help himself to become worthy once again. 

Thank you in advance to those who can offer some more enlightenment, and prepare him for what may or may not happen.

 

*note; he understands the gravity of the situation and is being judged by wonderful, inspired, loving, compassionate, priesthood holders. I beg that we do not judge him, or share personal opinion. Please post positive things, doctrine, and sincere help. Thank you 

[Jane_Doe]

33 minutes ago, Faith_In_Every_Footstep said:

 He has expressed the same sentiments. He and I were wondering about how long (if he were to be excommunicated) would it take to be rebaptized? And later to receive his endowments again? 

Church discipline is a very case-by-case thing.  There's no set rules.  His willingness to work at it, and admittance to needing the help will be of great benefit in the process (that's half the battle).  Openness, honesty, and humility are incredible assets. 

It sounds like you're being a really good friend during this whole thing.

[tesuji]

The best thing to do while he works his way back, is to keep repenting and living the commandments. Do the things that faithful church members do: repent daily, read the scriptures daily, pray daily, serve others, seek to know and do the Lord's will.

The important this is not how high you are up "on the ladder" of spirituallity, but which direction you are heading and if you are moving forward. A person at the bottom heading up is much better off than a person at the top who is heading back down.

Quote

I am also convinced of the fact that the speed with which we head along the straight and narrow path isn’t as important as the direction in which we are traveling. That direction, if it is leading toward eternal goals, is the all-important factor.

-- "On Being Worthy," Marvin J. Ashton

 

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2016 by tesuji

[NeedleinA]

30 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Church discipline is a very case-by-case thing.  There's no set rules.  His willingness to work at it, and admittance to needing the help will be of great benefit in the process (that's half the battle).  Openness, honesty, and humility are incredible assets. 

It sounds like you're being a really good friend during this whole thing.

I'll second this thought. Here is a helpful link from AskGramps on the subject of timing: What is the timeline for repentance?

[LeSellers]

1 hour ago, Faith_In_Every_Footstep said:

 He and I were wondering about how long … to receive his endowments again? 

He won't "receive his endowments" [sic] again". There is an ordinance called "restoration of blessings". The format is much like confirmation, authorized agents place their hands on his head and, through the power of Priesthood keys, literally restore the blessings lost through disobedience.
* The endowment is singular. Where the plural comes from is a mystery. It's like the Garment of the Holy Priesthood. Why call it "garments"?

Others have already said there is no definitive schedule. It is up to the Stake President and the Apostles in charge of these things to determine when the repentance is complete and sincere.

Lehi

Edited July 18, 2016 by LeSellers

[Faith_In_Every_Footstep]

Thank you all for the clarity and information! Your time and replies are greatly appreciated. I've been trying to find comforting words and figured maybe some absolutes (like timing) would make him feel better. Knowing and remembering that forgiveness and the repentance process are dependent on the person who has sinned is just what was needed. And to Jane_Doe 

2 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Church discipline is a very case-by-case thing.  There's no set rules.  His willingness to work at it, and admittance to needing the help will be of great benefit in the process (that's half the battle).  Openness, honesty, and humility are incredible assets. 

It sounds like you're being a really good friend during this whole thing.

That's what family is for. If there's one thing I'm grateful for, it's times like these where trials bring us closer to our Father in Heaven and each other. 

Once again, thank you all!

[GratefulHeart]

On 7/18/2016 at 7:27 AM, Faith_In_Every_Footstep said:

A family member has opened up to me and has expressed that he may be at risk for excommunication. He is going to be seen by a church disciplinary council soon. Although he did some things he wasn't supposed to I know he is a wonderful person and that while it hurts to be in this situation, everything will still be ok. He has expressed the same sentiments. He and I were wondering about how long (if he were to be excommunicated) would it take to be rebaptized? And later to receive his endowments again? 

We also would like to know, what is some good advice to follow while he tries to comeback. Church articles on excommunication, personal experiences anyone is willing to share, church music etc. He is already eager and seeking ways to help himself to become worthy once again. 

Thank you in advance to those who can offer some more enlightenment, and prepare him for what may or may not happen.

 

*note; he understands the gravity of the situation and is being judged by wonderful, inspired, loving, compassionate, priesthood holders. I beg that we do not judge him, or share personal opinion. Please post positive things, doctrine, and sincere help. Thank you 

Faith_In_Every_Footstep, I take it this is what you meant on another thread when you said you had important questions that were not really answered here. I think people tried, but since you didn't give a lot of specifics about the situation all people could do is give you generalized responses as well.

I might be able to help with information. Sadly, over the years I've watched and helped many people go through the process (family, friends, aquaintances), and  have a family member who served as a bishop. Since I don't know what the full situation is to give you a specific comparison, i'll give a few different examples and information to see if that helps to give you and your family member an idea of what he is facing, and the answers you were seeking.

Most of us are good people and have good intentions and are capable of mistakes, but unfortunately its not so simple or quick as you seem to assume it is. You also said you were looking for absolute timelines to make him feel better. There definitely isn't an exact timeline or any kind of fast track.  I say that to help prepare; not to be mean. I  know multiple people who have been excommunicated, and only 4 were rebaptized after several years, and two had restorals several years after being rebaptized (one is still waiting for permission for restoral, and another had not been endowed until after). The restoral of blessings (endowments,priesthood, sealings) hast to be authorized by the first presidency, so it's a lengthy process. I think it's a year after being baptized again before a person can be considered for the restoration of blessings, and then it can take a several years to be authorized.

first there is the council itself. It's not meant to be punishment, but it it really is done out of love. It's meant to help people to get on the right path, and sometimes when people have gone far off course, the best way is to be given a clean slate, and given the opportunity to be made clean again. There are a couple talks that I always think abou with the repentance process. There is one by Elder Ballard that refers to it as coming to the table with dirty hands, and needing to be sent away so can come back clean again.... and then another by Elder Packer that also compares it to being dirty and needing to be washed clean. Here they are:https://www.lds.org/ensign/1990/09/a-chance-to-start-over-church-disciplinary-councils-and-the-restoration-of-blessings?lang=eng 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1997/04/washed-clean?lang=eng

"I remember as a child occasionally coming unkempt to the dinner table. My mother wisely sent me to clean up and then return. My parents would have been pained if I had taken offense and had run off—and I would have been foolish to do so. In the same way, the servants of the Lord occasionally find that they must, in loving concern, send some of Heavenly Father’s children out the door so they can return clean once again. The Lord does not want us to “miss supper.” In fact, he has a great feast prepared for those who return clean and pure through the door. He is greatly saddened when anyone decides they prefer to be unclean and miss the meal, or when they find an excuse to take offense, or when they run away. He is pleased to extend the chance to start over. "

"I thought that repentance, like soap, should be used frequently. I found that when I apologized for mistakes, things were better. But for serious mistakes, an apology was not enough—sometimes not even possible. While these mistakes were, for the most part, not major ones, the spiritual pain called guilt invariably set in. Sooner or later they must be resolved, but I didn’t know what to do. That happens when you break something that you alone can’t fix."  

From what I've heard, those factors play a large role when it's determined what a person needs to help them ( excommunication, disfellowship, probation, or nothing needed). They look for signs of true repentance, and change of heart and actions (and use spiritual guidance and prayer). That means its a lot more than just being sorry, and being a good person. They need to see the person has truly changed their ways, ceased activities, situations, or even ended relationships that were bad influences and resulted in making the mistakes. Its complete honesty, owning, and changing. If a person goes in front of the council and is still in the situation or doing what is harmful, and just says they are sorry and intend to change, it likely won't be a "lesser" ruling because it shows that person still needs to go through the process of "cleaning" themselves. Its not just about words and intent, its about visble actions and changes as well.

Other factors seem to be level of accountability (if they have been endowed, hold the priesthood etc...) if others were harmed or negatively influenced ( children), if their were prior issues or repeat offenses, and how public the situation was.

(Unfortunately children often get very negatively affected when parents become excommunicated. It can leave them without a priesthood holder, cause sealings to their parents to be lost, and they're at greater risk of having negative influences and examples, and not remaining in the church. )

 I'm going to use my cousin as an example because he's very vocal about his situation because its part of his testimony and he sees it as a way to help others. About a decade ago he got involved with a woman who was a non-member and who really had contrasting values. She convinced him to move in with her, and there were law of chastity issues that developed. He tried to convince himself that it was all okay because they got engaged and were in love, so that would somehow make it all right later. When he went to his council they were not yet married, but still living together (she had no desire to join the church). He'd hoped being engaged and sorry for his choices would be enough, but really even getting married would not have been enough to make him clean, the acts were still there regardless and he had not changed anything and marriage does not just cancel it out. They asked him if he was willing to end the relationship and expressed their many concerns that her influence would continue to negatively affect him and his child, and that it also would be difficult for him to repent and be restored if he married her. He said no, and after prayer and a great deal of consideration, the council felt excommunication was needed to help him. It turned out they were right on all their points and concerns, and truthfully guided by the spirit. He married the woman not long after with the full intent to quickly become rebaptized and regain everything, especially the sealing to his daughter from previous marriage.  it turned out to be difficult because he was affected by his wife's lack of interest and habits. His attendance wasn't consistent and he wasn't able to maintain standards. He was basically told that it would not be of help to grant him baptisim again when he was not truly clean or repented ( which is the purpose). It wasn't until that marriage ended that he was able to fully focus on repentance and go through the needed process. It took him five years from the time he was excommunicated to be baptized again, and then additional two and a half years after that to have his priesthood, endowments etc... restored, so almost 8 years. though he did regain everything, his daughter went down a negative path as a teenager and he struggled with holding her to standards he himself didn't keep, and she no-longer is active in the church. He also had a child with his second wife, and it greatly pains him that he is not being raised in the church, nor was he sealed to him, blessed, or baptized (so another reason why he wishes he had listened to the advice at the time of his council). This may all sound discouraging, but it's an example of what'ss needed, and that it's very important for your family member to heed, and take the advice that is given to him. He needs to trust the guidance they receive, especially since he might not be in a spiritual state (due to his situation) where he can receive guidance from the spirit himself.

Another friend also got involved with a non-member relationship, became inactive, and had a spiral of other choices. She eventually came back, and after about two years of activity was baptized again. She has now remarried, and is waiting for restoral of endowments so that they can be sealed in the temple ( she has been waiting close to three years for restoral since she was rebaptized).

A friend's father in law was excommunicated over fifteen years ago, and has been regularly attending for over a decade (and greatly desires to be baptized again), but still hasn't been given that approval. he's almost seventy now, and I don't know the particulars, only that it shows that things vary between people and their situations, and what guidance stake presidents etc... receive in determining if a person is clean enough and ready to start anew.  its about insuring that a person has a complete clean start.

I'm sorry that this was long-winded. I was trying to cover bases for you since you weren't specific. I'll gladly answers any other questions as best I can. Here are some additional talks that you can pass on that could be helpful:

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2007/10/clean-hands-and-a-pure-heart?lang=eng&_r=1

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2011/10/the-divine-gift-of-repentance?lang=eng&_r=1

Edited July 29, 2016 by GratefulHeart