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Molly Mormon, Peter Priesthood

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20 hours ago, Eowyn said:

I think everyone knows that "Molly Mormon" and "Peter Priesthood" are derogatory terms, pointed toward people who follow the "cookie cutter" (also derogatory) stereotype of doing everything "right" in Mormonism. (I've also seen it used in reference to hypocrites who make it look like they are doing everything "right", but away from the public eye they are different... this one I don't have a problem with, but it's also not the usage I'm thinking of here.)

When did it come so bad to try your best to do what we're told? Especially among each other. If a woman serves where she's asked, does her VT outside of showing up once a month, goes to the temple regularly, and heaven forbid does some home canning or family history, does she deserve the sneers of her fellow saints, as they bitterly call her "Molly Mormon"? Why is following counsel bitterly looked on as mindless conformity?

It is possible to still be your own person and have a strong mind while doing these things. It is possible to exercise your agency by doing what we've been asked to. But it seems that negativity and cynicism are more in vogue. 

I hate the cynicism around us. I hate that people make a hobby of criticizing each other even in (and often because of) our efforts to do right. I hate the assumption that those who are anxiously engaged are assumed to be fake, or putting up airs, when I believe that most often people are anxiously engaged because they have a testimony, and/or conviction that there are good reasons we're counseled to do these things. Do we remember the 13th Article of Faith? Are we seeking after the good in each other, or trying to find fault?

It sounds like one root he gives of this problem is pride. Where else do you suppose this negativity that seems to thrive between us might come from?

I so agree.

I think you've identified the cause. Pride seems to be the reason. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1989/04/beware-of-pride

I've always thought of the story about crabs in a bucket - none can escape, because when one starts to climb out, the others pull it down. (I'm not sure if crabs actually do this.)

I remember hearing a speaker give counsel to a seminary student who was scorned for his/her efforts to always do what's right: Ignore them, they did the same thing to Jesus. He was so good, they couldn't stand him.

One of the main reasons to qualify for the celestial kingdom is that you will be with celestial people. 

Edited by tesuji

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I’ve met plenty of Saints who are quietly obedient and live exemplary lives.  I wouldn’t classify them as Molly Mormon/Peter Priesthoods.

 

I’ve also met a few rare wacko’s who appear to be constantly auditioning for leadership positions within the LDS Church.  They are also obedient (or at least give that appearance), but for different reasons.  That is who I define as Molly/Peter.  They have a severe lack of personal introspection and recognition. 

 

This reminds me of a story about President Monson.  I love this story.  We all know of Pres. Monson’s dedication to visiting the sick.  Years ago, during an important church meeting he received an impression that he should go to the hospital to visit someone.  He didn’t know who.  However, someone important was speaking and he rationalized that instead of rudely running out of the meeting interrupting the talk, he would wait until the speaker finished.  After 20-30 minutes, he rushed to the hospital.  As he entered the hospital, a nurse recognized him and told him he was too late.  A person that was asking for him had passed away a few minutes earlier.

 

I love that Pres. Monson was so honest and would open up and share this experience.  He didn’t need to.  He recognized that even as much as he has done for others, even he falls short on occasion.  I think honesty and self-realization is a clear indicator as to whether someone is Molly/Peter or not.

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On 8/7/2016 at 4:24 PM, yjacket said:
On 8/7/2016 at 2:29 PM, Eowyn said:

I think everyone knows that "Molly Mormon" and "Peter Priesthood" are derogatory terms,

I think part of the problem is right there.  I certainly don't think of MM and PP as derogatory terms; more of a euphemisms for the typical woman or man in the Church. How it is said is much more indicative of a derogatory term vs. the actual word. 

I've heard it both ways.  It's more in the tone and context than the actual meaning.

EDIT: This may be a generational thing as well.  I grew up in a time when the usage of those terms by members of the Church was fading.  And I have since heard it in a derogatory manner.  I think there was a shift in the meaning at some point that I was not aware of.

Edited by Guest

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To me, a Molly Mormon is a girl who is always trying to do what's right, even if it's not "cool." Maybe she also doesn't dress in the latest styles, doesn't care so much about that kind of superficiality. I think of teenagers mostly using this term. It means "Mormon to a fault," but according to how silly teenagers see it, and not actually a fault. Trying to do what's right is never a bad thing.

I don't know if I ever heard anyone actually call someone else Peter Priesthood, but I always assumed it was the male equivalent of my understanding of Molly Mormon.

I didn't grow up in Utah so maybe the words had different meanings here.

Edited by tesuji

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1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

I've heard it both ways.  It's more in the tone and context than the actual meaning.

EDIT: This may be a generational thing as well.  I grew up in a time when the usage of those terms by members of the Church was fading.  And I have since heard it in a derogatory manner.  I think there was a shift in the meaning at some point that I was not aware of.

This may be the case . . .you know you are getting old when the meaning of words start to change.  I read 1950s story books to my kids and they have gay in them alot- such as he was a gay old chap (i.e. happy old guy)  . . . .sigh. Sometimes getting older sucks.

To the point at hand, I generally don't care too much about what others think of me-the opinion of God, my wife and family mean the most.

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I think one can choose to be insulted, or choose not to be.  Rejoice that people know you are LDS.  Rejoice that they think you are LDS enough to call you that.

We hold the truth.  WE hold the keys.  WE have the Priesthood.

Call me any name you want.

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On 8/8/2016 at 0:04 PM, omegaseamaster75 said:

I am familiar with the terms. I view and use those terms for those who are more concerned with the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law.

WOW is one example, President G.B.Hinkley said once that we do not consume caffeine.  Next thing I get to hear about at church is how we don't drink coke because the prophet said so. Another one, no alcohol while cooking....drives me bananas....so basicly you can't go out to eat ever to a nice resturant? Or if you do your "that" guy.  My nephew has an uncle who will not allow caffeinated drinks in his home, but he eats steak at every meal, loves his chocolate, is severely overweight...but guess what he is a temple recommend holder. The guy who walks out of a PG-13 movie because there was to much skin or to many swear words...honestly where does this guy work/live? In the real world people swear and women dress for other women, in tight revealing clothing, does he walk around with blinders on all day and ear plugs in?  In fairness I really don't have a problem with someone walking out of a movie because they found it offensive, my issues is with their need to tell me about it during open mic Sunday and wear it like a badge of honor kind of a "hey look at me and how righteous I am".  

 

I've never understood this. So what if this man doesn't allow caffeine in his home? So what if someone chooses to not see a PG13 or R movie? Why do their private choices mean they are being self righteous or even that their private choices make them wrong/unworthy/etc.?

I really don't get it. I choose to not eat anything that I know has added alcohol in it. Does that mean I never consume things with alcohol? No, there are times when it is either unavoidable or I don't know they've added it. But, how does my choice make other people think I'm being self righteous or even unworthy? I'm not telling you to not choose beer battered shrimp....I'm just not ordering it. What you choose to do is your business and between you and the Lord. I may think you are wrong, but it's not my place to tell you that or judge you for that. 

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I regard a MM or PP as one who not only does all the standard textbook righteous things, but also makes sure to let everyone else know they do. Some even like to act as a form of morality police to keep the rest of us in line.

I do not ever recall using the terminology towards anyone, but several years ago as an adult I was approached by someone in Priesthood leadership in our ward who told me I should be wearing a white shirt to church as non-white or multi-colored shirts were not authorized and that I should have shaved ( I had a 1 day growth).

Anyway I told him I was not going to comply with any of his made-up Peter Priesthood rules and he should mind his own business. He insisted it was church policy so I told him to reference it in church policy and/or sick the Bishop on me if it was that big of a deal. I never heard from him again or the Bishop for that matter. He was/and still is one of those guys who likes to itemize the service he does for others and all the sacrifices he makes to be in the high council.

In one ward I was asked why I missed so much church and I told them it was because of my shift at work (police). They said well this has been going on for a couple years maybe you can get a desk job or find a new career. I told him ...well I wont repeat it.

Anyways---my dos centavos

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9 hours ago, paracaidista508 said:


I do not ever recall using the terminology towards anyone, but several years ago as an adult I was approached by someone in Priesthood leadership in our ward who told me I should be wearing a white shirt to church as non-white or multi-colored shirts were not authorized and that I should have shaved ( I had a 1 day growth).

Don't feel bad my friend. You should see what I wear to church. 

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9 hours ago, paracaidista508 said:


I do not ever recall using the terminology towards anyone, but several years ago as an adult I was approached by someone in Priesthood leadership in our ward who told me I should be wearing a white shirt to church as non-white or multi-colored shirts were not authorized and that I should have shaved ( I had a 1 day growth).

Don't feel bad my friend. You should see what I wear to church. 

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37 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Don't feel bad my friend. You should see what I wear to church. 

My personal favorite is another lucky Goodwill find; black with multicolored narrow vertical stripes French cuff fitted dress shirt that looks like it was custom tailored for me.  Partly because it keeps fitting better and better as I drop weight in the gut.  Nobody says anything to me because the bishop shows up in black jeans.  (With a white shirt, but they're still figuring any unwritten dress code stuff is a lost cause.)

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3 minutes ago, NightSG said:

My personal favorite is another lucky Goodwill find; black with multicolored narrow vertical stripes French cuff fitted dress shirt that looks like it was custom tailored for me.  Partly because it keeps fitting better and better as I drop weight in the gut.  Nobody says anything to me because the bishop shows up in black jeans.  (With a white shirt, but they're still figuring any unwritten dress code stuff is a lost cause.)

I usually wear a polo shirt and khakis. Rarely I'll wear a button down but I seldom wear ties. 

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24 minutes ago, paracaidista508 said:

I really hope I didnt give the impression I felt bad about it......ha

 

You didn't and you shouldn't (feel bad). 

Edited by MormonGator

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

I usually wear a polo shirt and khakis. Rarely I'll wear a button down but I seldom wear ties. 

French cuffs and fun cufflinks (pewter Millennium Falcons, silver/red Rebel Alliance insignia, or silk knots in my HS blue and gold) go well with a fun bow tie.

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4 minutes ago, NightSG said:

French cuffs and fun cufflinks (pewter Millennium Falcons, silver/red Rebel Alliance insignia, or silk knots in my HS blue and gold) go well with a fun bow tie.

Dude, come to my ward. We could wear matching Zoot Suits. :cool:

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14 hours ago, beefche said:

I've never understood this. So what if this man doesn't allow caffeine in his home? So what if someone chooses to not see a PG13 or R movie? Why do their private choices mean they are being self righteous or even that their private choices make them wrong/unworthy/etc.?

I really don't get it. I choose to not eat anything that I know has added alcohol in it. Does that mean I never consume things with alcohol? No, there are times when it is either unavoidable or I don't know they've added it. But, how does my choice make other people think I'm being self righteous or even unworthy? I'm not telling you to not choose beer battered shrimp....I'm just not ordering it. What you choose to do is your business and between you and the Lord. I may think you are wrong, but it's not my place to tell you that or judge you for that. 

You misread me, I Don't care what they do, but THEY tell us about it. I don't care if you walked out of a PG 13 movie, I don't care if you don't drink anything with caffine in it, I don't care if you don't consume anything with alcohol in it. 

I also DON'T want to hear about it. Why because I don't, because it doesn't make you better than the guy who likes his bananas foster, or his garlic butter white wine reduction on his pasta, or the guys who drink 2 liters of diet coke every day.  Why do I have to hear about it in EQ or over the pulpit on open mic Sunday?

If I go out to eat with a guy and he does not order a diet coke, or asks about the alcohol used in cooking the food I don't say a word about it, because that's his personal choice. I don't care, and I expect the same from him. Peter Priesthood is the guy who tells me why I shouldn't have my caffeinated drink or why he is so picky about his food selections that's all.

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14 hours ago, beefche said:

I've never understood this. So what if this man doesn't allow caffeine in his home? So what if someone chooses to not see a PG13 or R movie? Why do their private choices mean they are being self righteous or even that their private choices make them wrong/unworthy/etc.?

I really don't get it. I choose to not eat anything that I know has added alcohol in it. Does that mean I never consume things with alcohol? No, there are times when it is either unavoidable or I don't know they've added it. But, how does my choice make other people think I'm being self righteous or even unworthy? I'm not telling you to not choose beer battered shrimp....I'm just not ordering it. What you choose to do is your business and between you and the Lord. I may think you are wrong, but it's not my place to tell you that or judge you for that. 

You misread me, I Don't care what they do, but THEY tell us about it. I don't care if you walked out of a PG 13 movie, I don't care if you don't drink anything with caffine in it, I don't care if you don't consume anything with alcohol in it. 

I also DON'T want to hear about it. Why because I don't, because it doesn't make you better than the guy who likes his bananas foster, or his garlic butter white wine reduction on his pasta, or the guys who drink 2 liters of diet coke every day.  Why do I have to hear about it in EQ or over the pulpit on open mic Sunday?

If I go out to eat with a guy and he does not order a diet coke, or asks about the alcohol used in cooking the food I don't say a word about it, because that's his personal choice. I don't care, and I expect the same from him. Peter Priesthood is the guy who tells me why I shouldn't have my caffeinated drink or why he is so picky about his food selections that's all.

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14 hours ago, beefche said:

I've never understood this. So what if this man doesn't allow caffeine in his home? So what if someone chooses to not see a PG13 or R movie? Why do their private choices mean they are being self righteous or even that their private choices make them wrong/unworthy/etc.?

I really don't get it. I choose to not eat anything that I know has added alcohol in it. Does that mean I never consume things with alcohol? No, there are times when it is either unavoidable or I don't know they've added it. But, how does my choice make other people think I'm being self righteous or even unworthy? I'm not telling you to not choose beer battered shrimp....I'm just not ordering it. What you choose to do is your business and between you and the Lord. I may think you are wrong, but it's not my place to tell you that or judge you for that. 

You misread me, I Don't care what they do, but THEY tell us about it. I don't care if you walked out of a PG 13 movie, I don't care if you don't drink anything with caffine in it, I don't care if you don't consume anything with alcohol in it. 

I also DON'T want to hear about it. Why because I don't, because it doesn't make you better than the guy who likes his bananas foster, or his garlic butter white wine reduction on his pasta, or the guys who drink 2 liters of diet coke every day.  Why do I have to hear about it in EQ or over the pulpit on open mic Sunday?

If I go out to eat with a guy and he does not order a diet coke, or asks about the alcohol used in cooking the food I don't say a word about it, because that's his personal choice. I don't care, and I expect the same from him. Peter Priesthood is the guy who tells me why I shouldn't have my caffeinated drink or why he is so picky about his food selections that's all.

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9 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

You misread me, I Don't care what they do, but THEY tell us about it. I don't care if you walked out of a PG 13 movie, I don't care if you don't drink anything with caffine in it, I don't care if you don't consume anything with alcohol in it. 

I also DON'T want to hear about it. Why because I don't, because it doesn't make you better than the guy who likes his bananas foster, or his garlic butter white wine reduction on his pasta, or the guys who drink 2 liters of diet coke every day.  Why do I have to hear about it in EQ or over the pulpit on open mic Sunday?

If I go out to eat with a guy and he does not order a diet coke, or asks about the alcohol used in cooking the food I don't say a word about it, because that's his personal choice. I don't care, and I expect the same from him. Peter Priesthood is the guy who tells me why I shouldn't have my caffeinated drink or why he is so picky about his food selections that's all.

So...because you DON'T want to hear it, they CAN'T share it because it hurts your happy bubble (a drawn line in the sand), and if they do they are MM or PPs? Ya, that makes sense. Just make sure then you don't share anything at all, because you will eventually break your own line and become a PP yourself.

A young married woman in sacrament shared some principles, applications, they choose regarding dress code. 1) I think it is great that they are willing to share their thoughts and what they do. 2) Why be bothered, unless you (general) feel some guilt. 3) If they speak a truth, I had better be listening otherwise we are held accountable for truth we dismiss so frivolously. 4) I didn't agree with everything she shared, but she has the same right to share and express what she feels is following God as anyone else (oh but shame on her for sharing...what a self-righteous MM -- sarcasm intended) without a person in the audience, self-righteously (irony) specifying they are PPs.

From your definition, my goodness, Nephi was the biggest PP ever. He did. He shared (his brothers didn't like it). And he repeated the cycle. He did. He shared. His brothers didn't like it.

 

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41 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

over the pulpit on open mic Sunday

That's potentially offensive, and at the very least, disrespectful. You've used it at least twice, and it is unhelpful.

Lehi

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40 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I also DON'T want to hear about it.

I get what you are saying, but in fairness to the hypothetical lady she has the same right as we do when it comes to giving a talk in church. You might want to balance it out by giving a speech reminding everyone (without singling her out, of course) that just because you avoid pg-13/R movies, etc you still have flaws and aren't better than anyone else. 

Or you can just use her speech time to read on your Kindle or play on your iPhone. Not that I've ever done that. ;)

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19 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I get what you are saying, but in fairness to the hypothetical lady she has the same right as we do when it comes to giving a talk in church. You might want to balance it out by giving a speech reminding everyone (without singling her out, of course) that just because you avoid pg-13/R movies, etc you still have flaws and aren't better than anyone else. 

Or you can just use her speech time to read on your Kindle or play on your iPhone. Not that I've ever done that. ;)

Or a person can think to themselves, "That is awesome. A person seeking to do what they feel is right and they are willing to share it." I have a friend who has decided to not watch pg-13 movies and I think it is awesome. Why do we as a people want to bring someone down who is trying to better themselves in an area they feel will help them be closer to God?

Edit: This is the principle YM are being taught in Duty to God: Learn, Act, Share; however, for some it appears it should only be Learn - Act - Don't Share.

Edited by Anddenex

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