I stole from a Mormon


bytebear
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http://www.chattanoogan.com/2016/8/9/329588/Eric-Youngblood-I-Stole-From-A-Mormon.aspx

I found this article today.  It's a good read, and a good reminder on the purpose of tithes (beyond just funding church programs).

 

I also found the stats on fast offerings interesting, since they are never reported when articles talk about the church's welfare and humanitarian programs.


 

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This system of burden sharing and occasional meal abstinence apparently generates some $50,000 a year for even smaller congregations to use for offsetting the deficits of the economically strapped in their midst...this of course, I assume, in addition to the tithe that is enjoined upon the devout for the maintenance of the church’s life. 

Among 3600 congregations in Utah alone, this system apparently generates some $200 million annually, about a fifth of what Utah’s state government spends on welfare and almost as much as it spends on health care” (You can read Ross Douthat’s take on it here if you are interested.).


 

 

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30 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

The numbers re donations seem to go back from an Economist article from the early 2000s.  And yeah, I doubt an average US ward takes in $4K/month in fast offerings. 

I dunno...have you looked at the size of some of the people?  Their daily food bill is likely close to what I spend in a week.

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Oh, I don't know. $4k/month, maybe 150 people paying fast offerings, that's $27 per payer.  Doesn't seem that far off...  My family does $25/mo FO, and a bit more for Humanitarian Aid and PEF.  One or two wealthy retired folks, eager to help financially, and $4k/mo sounds pretty easy.

Of course, $4k/mo could easily be eaten up (and more) by helping 2 families with rent, 3 more with utility bills, and barely have anything left for a medical bill or two.  

Edited by NeuroTypical
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14 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Oh, I don't know. $4k/month, maybe 150 people paying fast offerings, that's $27 per payer.  Doesn't seem that far off...  My family does $25/mo FO, and a bit more for Humanitarian Aid and PEF.  One or two wealthy retired folks, eager to help financially, and $4k/mo sounds pretty easy.

Of course, $4k/mo could easily be eaten up (and more) by helping 2 families with rent, 3 more with utility bills, and barely have anything left for a medical bill or two.  

In my experience, only 25% -30% of a ctive members will pay FO. As such, that's somewhere around 30- 40 families a month. Maybe it's different out west, but that has been my experience in the east/south. 

 

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8 hours ago, bytebear said:

Growing up, we had fast offerings collected door to door by the deacons every fast Sunday after church.  I am sure in Utah (where the stats come from), it's not uncommon to have a much higher percentage of people donate. 

This is, I believe, more than a quibble.

Fast offerings are not "collected", they are "received". They are not a bill to be paid, they are a free will offering (hence the name), and the Deacons who receive them are acting as the Lord in receiving them. This is not a trivial thing. By using the word "collect", we make it less noble, less virtuous, and less godly than it is, than we have a right for it to be.

Lehi

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1 hour ago, LeSellers said:

This is, I believe, more than a quibble.

Fast offerings are not "collected", they are "received". They are not a bill to be paid, they are a free will offering (hence the name), and the Deacons who receive them are acting as the Lord in receiving them. This is not a trivial thing. By using the word "collect", we make it less noble, less virtuous, and less godly than it is, than we have a right for it to be.

Lehi

Then you better bring it up with the Church. Even they use the term collecting fast offerings.  

https://www.lds.org/manual/aaronic-priesthood-manual-1/lesson-4-gathering-fast-offerings?lang=eng

They use gathering and at the end use collecting.  So if it's good enough for them it's good enough for me.

Even the CHI uses the terms gather and collect.

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/aaronic-priesthood/8.5?lang=eng&_r=1#85

Edited by pam
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I'm not sure why you're so strongly associating the term collection with a mandatory payment. It simply describes the act of gathering monies. Heck one of its definitions is associated with charitable giving.

Edited by jerome1232
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5 minutes ago, jerome1232 said:

I'm not sure why you're so strongly associating the term collection with a mandatory payment. It simply describes the act of gathering monies. Heck on of its definitions is associated with charitable giving.

I don't get it either.

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6 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

We have very few people paying fast offering. Shockingly few.

At the same time, however, people are excused from fasting if they have a medical condition that prevents them from doing so. 

As things like diabetes and exhaustion go up - medical conditions that make fasting difficult - I would imagine that we'll see fewer people fasting and so fewer offerings accordingly.

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6 hours ago, pam said:

Just curious how you would know this.

Our stake president gave us a very stern talk with a long list of statistics: number holding recommends, paying fast offering, attending all 3 meetings, long list. Interestingly in my work I study the effects of people knowing these kinds of statistics. In fact I am working on such a project right now. Half the colleges in the USA, give these social norm stats to students to reduce problem drinking. So you tell students, most students when they drink only drink 0-5 drinks. Problem drinkers really do reduce their drinking behaviors. But there is a boomerang effect, those performing better than the norm tend to slack off or to regress to the norm. This norm based intervention is also used to change energy consumption, seat belt use, promiscuity, long list of other behaviours.

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4 hours ago, Ironhold said:

At the same time, however, people are excused from fasting if they have a medical condition that prevents them from doing so. 

As things like diabetes and exhaustion go up - medical conditions that make fasting difficult - I would imagine that we'll see fewer people fasting and so fewer offerings accordingly.

Which is a shame.  Even those fast Sundays I don't fast (which is usually because of medication I'm on), I still pay fast offerings.  

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4 hours ago, Ironhold said:

I would imagine that we'll see fewer people fasting and so fewer offerings accordingly.

Since when do you have to actually fast in order to make a fast offering?  There are people in my family who cannot fast, but they still make the offering.  Further, we're asked to be generous, to offer more than the cost of the meals we skip - thus detaching the amount offered from the amount "saved" by skipping meals.

IMO, the only people who are excused from fast offerings by the fact that they must not fast are those who have nothing more to offer.

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8 hours ago, pam said:

Then you better bring it up with the Church. Even they use the term collecting fast offerings.  

https://www.lds.org/manual/aaronic-priesthood-manual-1/lesson-4-gathering-fast-offerings?lang=eng

They use gathering and at the end use collecting.  So if it's good enough for them it's good enough for me.

Even the CHI uses the terms gather and collect.

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/aaronic-priesthood/8.5?lang=eng&_r=1#85

8 hours ago, jerome1232 said:

I'm not sure why you're so strongly associating the term collection with a mandatory payment. It simply describes the act of gathering monies. Heck one of its definitions is associated with charitable giving.

It's probably common. But when I was a deacon, receiving the Fast Offerings, we were told in one of the manuals used back then, that we were never to say, "We're here to collect the Fast offering." Instead, it was to "We're here to receive the Fast Offering."

The difference, as explained above, is one of mindset.

Lehi

Edited by LeSellers
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