Emma Smith – a controversial LDS figure?

[FogCity]

I’ll be the first to admit, I am not well-versed in early LDS Church history and my knowledge is novice level (at best).  I recently watched a documentary about Emma Smith (on Amazon Prime) and my perception about her has changed.   

 

There has always seemed to be a stigma associated with Emma Smith.  But I’m not sure that’s completely fair.

 

I’ve always imagined that Emma lived an exemplary life prior to Joseph’s death and then lost her way after.  I think that’s a common held LDS belief or myth.  Clearly, there seems to be a negative perception of her that she didn’t come West with the Saints.  There was a heated disagreement between her and Brigham Young that seems to have damaged her character.  Her remarriage to a man that many viewed as sketchy.  And finally her involvement (with her son) in starting the Reorganized LDS Faith have each led to unfair questions about her.

 

It’s impossible for me to defend or justify one way or another.  All I know after watching this documentary is that Emma was a woman who endured tremendous trails over her entire lifetime, and showed amazing faith and love.  In addition to watching her children and husband die early in life, she also raised her 2^nd husbands illegitimate child as if he were her own.

 

Emma is the only female to be directly addressed by the Savior and mentioned as an Elect Lady scripturally.  That’s enough for me to remove the thought that she should be viewed as controversial.

[NeedleinA]

24 minutes ago, FogCity said:

Emma Smith (on Amazon Prime)

Do your remember the name of it?

I watched one documentary on either Amazon Prime or Netflix that was basically a mending of feelings between the Smiths and the Youngs. For the life of me I can't remember it's name or find it via Google right now either. Either way, I thought it had some unique perspectives on what appeared to be a noticeable rift between the Youngs and the Smiths after the Saints went west.

[Guest MormonGator]

9 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Do your remember the name of it?

I watched one documentary on either Amazon Prime or Netflix that was basically a mending of feelings between the Smiths and the Youngs. For the life of me I can't remember it's name or find it via Google right now either. Either way, I thought it had some unique perspectives on what appeared to be a noticeable rift between the Youngs and the Smiths after the Saints went west.

It comes from Emma wanting JS III to be the leader of the church, I think. 

[omegaseamaster75]

I always thought she was pressured into joining by her son who was recruited to lead

[NeedleinA]

3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

It comes from Emma wanting JS III to be the leader of the church, I think. 

That and many other issues. Bummer of a time for everyone.

[Guest MormonGator]

7 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

That and many other issues. Bummer of a time for everyone.

So true

[LeSellers]

59 minutes ago, FogCity said:

her involvement (with her son) in starting the Reorganized LDS Faith have each led to unfair questions about her.

Neither Emma nor JS III had anything to do with "starting the Reorganized LDS Faith". Two of their apostles came to see her about having Joseph III become their prophet, months after they had organized their apostasy. She initially refused to let them speak with him, but afterward relented.

Lehi

[LeSellers]

25 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

It comes from Emma wanting JS III to be the leader of the church, I think. 

Emma did not want this. After the Battle of Nauvoo, when the apostates and antis had largely left her alone, she wanted little to do with religion. She rebuffed the RLDS apostles when they came to importune JSIII to become their prophet. It was only after several attempts on their part that she allowed it.

Lehi

[anatess2]

She did not follow the saints west under Brigham Young's leadership.  There was animosity between the two over property and polygamy.  Emma and her children did not believe that polygamy was a revelation.  From what I understand, she blames Brigham Young for its introduction into the faith.  The RLDS took this opportunity to ingratiate themselves to Emma and JSIII by making anti-polygamy an article of their faith.

[LeSellers]

38 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Emma and her children did not believe that polygamy was a revelation.

Emma believed it. She didn't like it.

She tried to foist it off on Brother Brigham, but even in her dying testimony to her son, she used the same words Joseph (and she) had used decades earlier, words designed to divert attention from the practice while not, in actual fact, denying it.

Lehi

Edited August 10, 2016 by LeSellers

[NeedleinA]

...

Edited August 10, 2016 by NeedleinA

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

 Emma and her children did not believe that polygamy was a revelation.  

 The Smiths marriage was more tension filled than the church and believers want to admit. She threatened him with divorce several times and who can blame her?

[LeSellers]

42 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

 The Smiths marriage was more tension filled than the church and believers want to admit. She threatened him with divorce several times and who can blame her?

I can. She received a direct commandment from God, and rejected it.

Lehi

[Maureen]

23 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

I can. She received a direct commandment from God, and rejected it.

Lehi

She knew JS better than anyone and wasn't going to let anyone guilt her into accepting something she knew was wrong. She tried to accept it and then came to her senses.

M.

[LeSellers]

12 minutes ago, Maureen said:

She knew JS better than anyone and wasn't going to let anyone guilt her into accepting something she knew was wrong.

She knew he was a prophet of God. She said so again and again until her dying day. She believed him to be all that he ever claimed.

Plural Marriage was definitely a challenge to her (because it was not from her culture, not because it was wrong). You seem to be engaging in Brodie-esque mind reading to determine what she thought, and what were "her senses".

Have you read the most useful biography of Emma (Emma Hale Smith: Mormon Enigma)? It's authors, each of whom changed her mind a bit about Sister Smith, agree, she didn't like it, but she knew it was of God. One, a LDS, the other RLDS, disagreed about a lot, but, in the end, they did see eye-to-eye on this.

Lehi

[NeedleinA]

11 minutes ago, Maureen said:

and wasn't going to let anyone guilt her into accepting something she knew was wrong. She tried to accept it and then came to her senses.

M.

M, can you please expand, what exactly did Emma "know" was wrong? Whatever it was, you are saying she went along with the "wrong" thing (accepted it), but then did a 180 on the subject (came to her senses)...correct?

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

M, can you please expand, what exactly did Emma "know" was wrong? Whatever it was, you are saying she went along with the "wrong" thing (accepted it), but then did a 180 on the subject (came to her senses)...correct?

I'm not saying @Maureen is right but if you were her and your husband suddenly came up with this-you wouldn't like it either. It would be a very hard thing to accept. Remember her (Emma) own father didn't like Joseph and Emma worried about his (Joseph) ability to provide for her own family, much less another one.  

It's hard for people to put themselves in others shoes. It takes a degree of sympathy, perception and intelligence than many people aren't capable of (Not saying that about anyone here. It's a "shoe fits" kind of statement). To me Emma comes across as a deeply sympathetic person. 

[NeedleinA]

5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I'm not saying @Maureen is right but if you were her and your husband suddenly came up with this-you wouldn't like it either. It would be a very hard thing to accept.

I can't say that Maureen is "right" or "wrong" because I don't know what she is referring to in the first place? Looking for some clarity to define what the "wrong" thing is that Emma came to her senses about? 

[Guest MormonGator]

7 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

I can't say that Maureen is "right" or "wrong" because I don't know what she is referring to in the first place? Looking for some clarity to define what the "wrong" thing is that Emma came to her senses about? 

Oh okay. My bad. Sorry about that. Now I see what you meant. 

Edited August 11, 2016 by MormonGator

[FogCity]

4 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Do your remember the name of it?

I watched one documentary on either Amazon Prime or Netflix that was basically a mending of feelings between the Smiths and the Youngs. For the life of me I can't remember it's name or find it via Google right now either. Either way, I thought it had some unique perspectives on what appeared to be a noticeable rift between the Youngs and the Smiths after the Saints went west.

its called Discovering Emma

[Maureen]

19 hours ago, LeSellers said:

She knew he was a prophet of God. She said so again and again until her dying day. She believed him to be all that he ever claimed.

Plural Marriage was definitely a challenge to her (because it was not from her culture, not because it was wrong). You seem to be engaging in Brodie-esque mind reading to determine what she thought, and what were "her senses".

Have you read the most useful biography of Emma (Emma Hale Smith: Mormon Enigma)? It's authors, each of whom changed her mind a bit about Sister Smith, agree, she didn't like it, but she knew it was of God. One, a LDS, the other RLDS, disagreed about a lot, but, in the end, they did see eye-to-eye on this.

Lehi

Yes, I have read Emma Hale Smith:Mormon Enigma. I disagree that Emma knew that polygamy was from God. On page 272 of Mormon Enigma it says:

"Emma had not divulged to him (JS III) his father's participation in its practice. She believed her husband had been a prophet but that his revelation on polygamy did not come from God, and therefore she broke no commandment by rejecting it."

She did try accepting it but after months of living with the Partridge sisters and Lawrence sisters, knowing they were her husband's plural wives, she couldn't do it anymore. On page 172 it reads:

"In the past Emma had compromised her feelings, had concealed the practice of plural marriage from public knowledge, and had even cooperated in giving Joseph other wives. But apparently she reached the limits of tolerance as she envisioned her children's futures. Ridding her home of Joseph's plural wives was not enough. She needed a way to influence the majority of the women in Nauvoo---those whose husbands and daughters had not yet been taught the principle of plurality---to help her put a stop to the practice. Through no doing of her own, the opportunity presented itself."

It came in the form of a document called "A Voice of Innocence from Nauvoo" to oppose the "slanderous language concerning [Hyrum] and certain females of Nauvoo.". To make a long story short Mormon Enigma writes:

"...the Relief Society met again. Emma told the women that none should adopt the propositions she was about to read unless they were willing "to Maintain their integrity through time and Eternity."  She then presented both the "Voice of Innocence" and the presidency's letter, stating that the two documents contained the principles the society had started upon, but she "was sorry to have to say all had not adhere'd to them."....Emma urged the women to follow the teachings of Joseph Smith as taught them "from the stand" implying  that his private teachings should be disregarded. 

...The "Voice of Innocence" was published in the Nauvoo Neighbor March 20 [1844]....In those last [Relief Society] meetings Emma had reaffirmed the traditional Christian standards of marriage, using Joseph's public denials of polygamy, his own letter, and the "Voice of Innocence" to give every woman present a valid reason for avoiding plural marriage...." 

Regarding the two authors, Linda King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery, both were LDS (Avery passed away in 2006). In the Preface to the Second Edition it reads:

"But the book offended the leadership of the LDS Church in Utah. In June 1985, a month after it received the Evans award, newspaper headlines of the Los Angeles Times announced, "Mormons Forbid Female Biographers of Smith's Wife to Address Church." We were prohibited from speaking about any aspect of religious or church history in any LDS Church-related meeting or institution. Church leaders took this action without reading the book in its entirety or informing us of their decision, and it remained in effect over ten months.....After a ten-month stalemate, Linda Newell successfully petitioned church leaders to reconsider the prohibition. On April 24, 1986, she was informed that the restrictions the church had placed on us were no longer in effect...."

M.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Maureen

[LeSellers]

6 minutes ago, Maureen said:

Yes, I have read Emma Hale Smith:Mormon Enigma. I disagree that Emma knew that polygamy was from God.

You can cherry pick all you like, but Emma knew of Plural Marriage long before others knew.

No one would declare she liked Plural Marriage. No one would say she did more than tolerate it, and no one is saying she didn't rebel against it from time to time. But she knew where it came from, and whatever else one may say, she continued with Joseph, the Seer, and loved him, when, had she not known, she'd have left him, and gone back to her gloating family.

Lehi

[Maureen]

12 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

You can cherry pick all you like, but Emma knew of Plural Marriage long before others knew.

No one would declare she liked Plural Marriage. No one would say she did more than tolerate it, and no one is saying she didn't rebel against it from time to time. But she knew where it came from, and whatever else one may say, she continued with Joseph, the Seer, and loved him, when, had she not known, she'd have left him, and gone back to her gloating family.

Lehi

Plural marriage had been kept a secret from Emma for years. By the time Emma agreed to give Joseph wives she did not realize at the time that he already had at least 16.

You might want to re-read Mormon Enigma.

M.

[LeSellers]

5 minutes ago, Maureen said:

Plural marriage had been kept a secret from Emma for years.

If you say so.

Lehi

[Maureen]

19 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

If you say so.

Lehi

Not just me but the two authors and even the essay Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo reads:

Emma approved, at least for a time, of four of Joseph Smith’s plural marriages in Nauvoo, and she accepted all four of those wives into her household. She may have approved of other marriages as well.³⁹ But Emma likely did not know about all of Joseph’s sealings.⁴⁰ She vacillated in her view of plural marriage, at some points supporting it and at other times denouncing it.

https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng

M.