Emma Smith – a controversial LDS figure?


FogCity
 Share

Recommended Posts

23 hours ago, LeSellers said:

Neither Emma nor JS III had anything to do with "starting the Reorganized LDS Faith". Two of their apostles came to see her about having Joseph III become their prophet, months after they had organized their apostasy. She initially refused to let them speak with him, but afterward relented.

Lehi

Briggs and Gurley were against polygamy, so it makes sense that they would not join with Brigham Young. How do you know that it was not Brigham Young who was in apostasy?

Mormon Enigma says on page 175:

Sometime that spring of 1844, George J. Adams hurried from the red brick store to the Mansion to find Emma. He exclaimed, "The matter is now settled. We now know who Joseph's successor will be: it is little Joseph, [for] I have just seen him ordained by his father." ...Details of the ceremony, however, were preserved by James Whitehead, financial clerk for Joseph.

Whitehead told a friend, William W. Blair, in 1873 that he was in the outer office at the time, but he heard others discuss the ordination. Later, under oath, he remembered there were about twenty-five people in attendance. Whitehead said: "Hyrum Smith anointed [the boy]  and his father blessed him and ordained him and Newel Whitney poured the oil on his head, and he was set apart to be his father's successor in office, holding all the powers his father held.

As an old man Joseph III could not recall specifics of the blessing, but wrote, "I was called into the room over my fathers store in Nauvoo...and was there anointed with oil and blessed by my father, and the privileges and callings to fit one to succeed him were conferred by name upon me. I was publicly acknowledged by my father to be his successor, on the stand in Nauvoo in the presence of hundreds, possibly thousands of people." James Whitehead remembered Joseph announcing that "I am no longer their prophet," and described him "putting his hand on young Joseph's head: and saying, 'This is your prophet, I am going to rest.'"

M. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Maureen said:

I disagree that Emma knew that polygamy was from God.

So did Emma believe D&C 132 was scripture, specifically where God speaks to her about polygamy?

51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to prove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.

 52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those (other wives sealed to Joseph) that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

it continues...

56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid forgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to rejoice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Maureen said:

Briggs and Gurley were against polygamy, so it makes sense that they would not join with Brigham Young. How do you know that it was not Brigham Young who was in apostasy?

 

Because I am LDS today.  Not RLDS or anything else.  How do I know that the Catholic Bishops are in apostasy and not Joseph Smith?  Same answer.  How do I know that Jesus Christ is the son of God and not just a prophet?  Same answer.

Polygamy was a step in the restoration of Eternal Marriage.  I see it clear as day.  Catholic teachings even led me to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Maureen said:

No.

M.

Who did she accredit as the author of D&C 132 if not the Lord?

On 8/11/2016 at 8:07 PM, Maureen said:

She knew JS better than anyone and wasn't going to let anyone guilt her into accepting something she knew was wrong. She tried to accept it and then came to her senses.

M.

If she didn't accept it as scripture or from the Lord, what reason did she give for even "trying to accept it" at all?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Maureen said:

Briggs and Gurley were against polygamy, so it makes sense that they would not join with Brigham Young. How do you know that it was not Brigham Young who was in apostasy?

Because the Lord has revealed to me that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, led by prophets and Apostles of God, is His congregation, not some offshoot and apostate organization led by the whims of the unrighteous.

3 hours ago, Maureen said:

Sometime that spring of 1844, George J. Adams hurried from the red brick store to the Mansion to find Emma. He exclaimed, "The matter is now settled. We now know who Joseph's successor will be: it is little Joseph, [for] I have just seen him ordained by his father." ...Details of the ceremony, however, were preserved by James Whitehead, financial clerk for Joseph.

And Joseph said that other men would lead the church when he was gone. But, and this is critical, any blessing depends on the worthiness of the recipient for its fulfillment.

Brigham was that man, both by revelation (he was the president of the equal-authority-quorum, the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. None of the men who formed the RLDS church (nor any other, possibly excepting Sydney Rigdon's twiglet in Pennsylvania, but Rigdon had suffered traumatic brain injury in Missouri) had any authority to reform the church.

Lehi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/11/2016 at 7:29 PM, NeedleinA said:

Who did she accredit as the author of D&C 132 if not the Lord?

It was presented to her as a revelation, so I'm pretty sure she knew the words were from her husband. And I'm going to speculate, since she didn't accept it as a revelation, she did not believe it was from God.

Quote

If she didn't accept it as scripture or from the Lord, what reason did she give for even "trying to accept it" at all?

After Emma found out about Joseph and Eliza Snow's relationship, she and Joseph discussed and I'm sure, argued about plural marriage (polygamy) on several occasions. It took a couple months but I'm going to speculate that she was tired of arguing and to make her husband happy she compromised. Mormon Enigma says:

"Convinced that it was necessary for her salvation and essential to their continued relationship, she may have decided to compromise with Joseph."

M.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/11/2016 at 7:50 PM, LeSellers said:

...Brigham was that man, both by revelation (he was the president of the equal-authority-quorum, the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. None of the men who formed the RLDS church (nor any other, possibly excepting Sydney Rigdon's twiglet in Pennsylvania, but Rigdon had suffered traumatic brain injury in Missouri) had any authority to reform the church.

Lehi

There were a number of men vying for Joseph's job after he died. While Joseph was alive no rules of succession had been created. I'm going to guess that if Hyrum Smith had survived, it is likely that he would have succeeded Joseph. The decision to make the president (or senior leader) of the Quorum of the Twelve to be the prophet's successor didn't happen until 1847.

M.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Maureen said:

There were a number of men vying for Joseph's job after he died. While Joseph was alive no rules of succession had been created. I'm going to guess that if Hyrum Smith had survived, it is likely that he would have succeeded Joseph. The decision to make the president (or senior leader) of the Quorum of the Twelve to be the prophet's successor didn't happen until 1847.

M.

And you think I don't know this?

Yes, Hyrum, as the Assistant President, would have been the next, but he died even before Joseph, so that's a non-started.

Actually, though, there were "rules of succession",. The Twelve form now and formed then, a quorum equal to the First presidency, and, except for the keys Joseph held as a single individual, and President of the Church and the Priesthood, they are, by right and revelation, the next in succession, with their President (Brigham Young in 1844) the leader of the Church. Further, with the President gone, the Quorum of the Twelve not only had the right, the keys they held in common, as a quorum, were not active, and they could do everything Joseph could have done with those keys. Once Brother Brigham had received the commission to be President, he was ordained to that office and given the sole active keys needed to direct the Church.

When he died, John Taylor, as President of the Quorum, did the same as President Young had done: it took years to ordain him as President of the Church and of the Priesthood. When he died, the same thing happened with Wilford Woodruff. Lorenzo Snow, however, was ordained, pursuant to a revelation, almost immediately after President Woodruff died, it was a "new thing", but it didn't change anything of import, and not much or minor significance.

Lehi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/10/2016 at 3:36 PM, FogCity said:

I’ll be the first to admit, I am not well-versed in early LDS Church history and my knowledge is novice level (at best).  I recently watched a documentary about Emma Smith (on Amazon Prime) and my perception about her has changed.   

 

There has always seemed to be a stigma associated with Emma Smith.  But I’m not sure that’s completely fair.

 

I’ve always imagined that Emma lived an exemplary life prior to Joseph’s death and then lost her way after.  I think that’s a common held LDS belief or myth.  Clearly, there seems to be a negative perception of her that she didn’t come West with the Saints.  There was a heated disagreement between her and Brigham Young that seems to have damaged her character.  Her remarriage to a man that many viewed as sketchy.  And finally her involvement (with her son) in starting the Reorganized LDS Faith have each led to unfair questions about her.

 

It’s impossible for me to defend or justify one way or another.  All I know after watching this documentary is that Emma was a woman who endured tremendous trails over her entire lifetime, and showed amazing faith and love.  In addition to watching her children and husband die early in life, she also raised her 2nd husbands illegitimate child as if he were her own.

 

Emma is the only female to be directly addressed by the Savior and mentioned as an Elect Lady scripturally.  That’s enough for me to remove the thought that she should be viewed as controversial.

only controversial as one wants her to be I suppose. There really isn't enough personal info. She and JS weren't exactly the most detailed people when it came down to recording the minutia of private life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Back in the Early 90s I was visiting with the Ogden Temple President  in discussing something Emma came up, he stated that Pres. Kimball said about Emma,  "Enough is Enough, she (Emma) has suffered enough" , and at that time had her temple work , or ordinances restored. This was while Pres. Kimball was still living . I was told this after the fact. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/11/2016 at 5:32 PM, Maureen said:

No.

M.

I think it's not too much of a stretch to hypothesize that Emma sincerely changed her mind--first she rejected it, then she believed it (or at least, had enough faith to try to make herself believe it), then rejected it again.

On 8/13/2016 at 6:12 PM, Maureen said:

There were a number of men vying for Joseph's job after he died. While Joseph was alive no rules of succession had been created. I'm going to guess that if Hyrum Smith had survived, it is likely that he would have succeeded Joseph. The decision to make the president (or senior leader) of the Quorum of the Twelve to be the prophet's successor didn't happen until 1847.

M.

Well . . . yes and no.  That the Twelve, collectively, should take the reins of the Church; was pretty well established--at least, within Nauvoo--by the end of August 1844 (regardless of whether you accept the story about Brigham Young actually taking on the voice/appearance of Joseph Smith at that conference, something happened to leave the Nauvoo saints in relative unity on the matter by the end of the month).  The issue resolved in 1847, was whether the Twelve could designate one individual who would wield their collective authority; and that's where a number of dissenters really started to argue that the Q12 was overstepping their authority (the allegation didn't get very far with the bulk of the Nauvoo saints, who were already in Winter Quarters; or with the British saints, who had mostly been converted by members of the Q12; but it was more effective amongst the scattered branches of the Church in the US and Canada).

On 8/14/2016 at 10:50 AM, Zarahemla said:

Emma had received the 2nd anointing so she is in no danger not joining the saints on their trek out west. She just wanted peace.

I think you're conflating the second anointing with having one's calling and election made sure; but so far as I know they are not synonymous.  The former does not guarantee the latter, any more than the priesthood ordinance of confirmation guarantees that the recipient will actually receive the gift of the Holy Ghost or any more than receiving Cowdery's "apostolic charge" meant that a particular member of the Q12 had actually experienced the sort of divine encounter that the charge speaks of.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share