Struggling with my Feelings About Tithing

[Just_A_Guy]

On August 26, 2016 at 10:11 AM, ldsister said:

Could it be that although we would *like* to believe that tithing is meant to bless us, it's actually meant to break us from caring about the things of this world? That rather than somehow making things easier or more fair, it's meant to make things so not-easy and not-fair, that we are forced to get to the point where we can look all the things of this world--health, food, lack of pain, comfort--in the face, and say, "I care so little about you, that not only do I not care about how little I have, I'm going to get rid of even some of that!" Like a child who cares so little for candy that she not only doesn't care that the person next to her gets three times as much, she'll also throw her candy away as well because she just doesn't care? Perhaps that's where I need to get--the point where I can say, "I don't care that my kids don't have birthday parties or that I have chronic, untreated pain. I simply don't care about the things of this world." Could that be the answer? 

I think there's a lot of wisdom in that approach; though I would also build on YJacket's approach.  Moving the Kingdom forward takes our time, but it also costs money.  In our first-world nations with their social welfare programs funded by progressive tax rates, it becomes easy to say "let those who are able (as defined by me!!!), carry the burden".  Tithing's universality reminds us that to some degree we are all able.  The responsibility for the welfare of the kingdom lies with all of us, not just the ones we see as enjoying more wealth or talent or leisure.

A couple of other suggestions:

--It's tithing, not a tax code; and while we want to be fair with the Lord--I don't think we aren't going to eternal burnings if we miscalculate our adjusted gross income or fail to reduce that fresh-baked-bread from our neighbors to a titheable dollar value.  Pay on the gross, if that's what the Spirit tells you (I happen to prefer that approach); but don't sweat the details.

--Tithing per se doesn't bring inner peace.  It's certainly part of it, in my book; but if your journey in Mormonism isn't bringing you discernible spiritual benefits then it may be appropriate to overhaul the way you approach every aspect of the Gospel--not just tithing.

--Dwelling on my tithing dollars once they're gone, calculating the precise proportion of my take-home pay that it represents, and perseverating on all the other things those dollars could have purchased, doesn't strike me as particularly helpful.  Similarly, when it comes to these extras like piano lessons or what-have-you-- I find that a "we can't, we blew the money on tithing" frame of mind often tends to shut down the creative, brainstorming process that so often turns the impossible into the achievable.

--If there are medical needs that are going untreated because you have to put the money into tithing--IMHO you need to talk to your bishop postehaste about getting financial assistance from the ward.  They may not be able to do much about one of these nebulous, mysterious chronic conditions like CFS or Fibromyalgia; but you may be surprised at how generous your bishop is willing to be in terms of funding diagnostic doctor's visits and treatment for diagnosed, easily-addressed conditions.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[JustAConvert]

 GREAT thread!I was baptized just over 20 years ago. My wife and I pay our tithing. Always have... I was searching the internets today because I could echo nearly everything said by the OP. 

 

[yjacket]

13 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

In our first-world nations with their social welfare programs funded by progressive tax rates, it becomes easy to say "let those who are able (as defined by me!!!), carry the burden".  Tithing's universality reminds us that to some degree we are all able.  The responsibility for the welfare of the kingdom lies with all of us, not just the ones we see as enjoying more wealth or talent or leisure.

Well said JAG!

[beefche]

On 8/26/2016 at 4:01 PM, ldsister said:

I'm hanging heavily on the hope that all these things become worth it when one dies, so I won't quit paying it. 

This is faith--hope for things not seen. I've always felt that tithing was not about money, but about faith. I've said that I have no idea what my blessings are from paying tithing, but I'm not willing to find out by ceasing to pay.

This thread has been really good for me to re-evaluate my own testimony and faith of tithing as well as the parts of the Gospel and Church that are difficult for me. Something that I think we all need to remember is that living the Gospel principles is a learning process. My payment of tithing has changed over the years--pay on gross, pay on net, pay on some other equation, go back to paying on gross, etc. As I've studied, prayed and tested His word, I've made mistakes, found success, and refined my behavior.

I think your introspection is exactly what you should be doing. You've gotten some good advice here. I hope you find the acceptance and peace you seek.

[anatess2]

So... my 14-year-old son is now making money teaching piano.  I mean, it's not significant enough to require him to file tax returns but it's significant enough to put a good amount into his mission fund.  Interestingly, I'm learning more life lessons from his experience...

1.)  He gives 10% of his income to tithes and 10% of his income to his piano teacher (that he still continues to go to).  His thinking is - he gives the 10% to God from whom all things are made possible and he gives 10% to his piano teacher who continues to guide and develop his talent (he calls her the god of piano).  So, the teacher told me she put that money into the fee she charges me for my son's lessons, so I need to change the amount on the check.  So then, I asked my son about it and he said - no, give her the full amount... that 10% is hers just like his tithes are God's.  My son then told me that when he makes enough money to pay for his own lessons, then he'll pay me back for the money I put into his lessons.  I, of course, told him, no.  I promised to pay for his piano lessons, it doesn't matter that he is making money now, I still want to pay for the lessons.  And my son replied, it's like a covenant, right?  And so I told him - yeah, that's it (even if I never really thought of it that way).  My son then said he promises to be my retirement plan as his covenant to me.  I'm liking the way this kid thinks.  Hah hah.

2.)  So, he charges $15/lesson and he has these kids wanting lessons but he had to turn down a couple of them because he doesn't have the time to do it with his schoolwork and such.  His piano teacher told him he is charging too low.  My son said, $15 is fair because he doesn't have teaching experience.  And it's a lot more than what he would have made bagging groceries for the same length of time.   His piano teacher said, $20 is fair with his kind of talent and experience and the number of people wanting lessons from him.  Any able-bodied kid can bag groceries, not many kids can teach piano.  He needs to give his talent a certain level of respect.  So my son talked to me about it and he said his teacher is right, if he charges more, he can give more tithes and fast offerings.  I've never thought like that... I've always thought - I want more money so I can buy a bigger house.

3.)  So, then he has this money in the bank and I see him browsing amazon for keytars and otomatones and I'm thinking... No, child... NOOOO!  That's how I ended up in the poor house... browsing catalogues of stuff.  As Seen on TV ended up with a lot of my money!  And I just bought the red copper pan last week... I still haven't learned that lesson...

 

 

Edited August 29, 2016 by anatess2

[Mcmkk]

Are you attending the temple? These sacred funds go towards temples. You should be regularly attending. You being sealed in the temple is a direct blessing of tithing. If no one paid tithing you may have had to travel thousands of miles. Tithing makes you more aware of your finances as well. You may be more careless and wasteful with your money if you had a little more. Even though you're on a tight budget it sounds like you have everything you could possibly need and then some since you're able to save every month. Isn't that a blessing? The lord promises to open the windows of heaven and poor out blessings in such abundance that there will not be enough room to receive them. It sounds like you have a beautiful life. Happy family. Have money to pay the bills and then some. In the church we tend to compare ourselves to the "Jones" family who has A little bit nicer car or house or vacation. I think the cure for this is gratitude for what we do have and not the coveting for what we lack. The happiest people I've ever met in my life didn't have fancy vacations. They worked hard. They loved their family. And they immersed themselves in the gospel. 

[Sunday21]

On August 29, 2016 at 10:12 AM, anatess2 said:

So... my 14-year-old son is now making money teaching piano.  I mean, it's not significant enough to require him to file tax returns but it's significant enough to put a good amount into his mission fund.  Interestingly, I'm learning more life lessons from his experience...

1.)  He gives 10% of his income to tithes and 10% of his income to his piano teacher (that he still continues to go to).  His thinking is - he gives the 10% to God from whom all things are made possible and he gives 10% to his piano teacher who continues to guide and develop his talent (he calls her the god of piano).  So, the teacher told me she put that money into the fee she charges me for my son's lessons, so I need to change the amount on the check.  So then, I asked my son about it and he said - no, give her the full amount... that 10% is hers just like his tithes are God's.  My son then told me that when he makes enough money to pay for his own lessons, then he'll pay me back for the money I put into his lessons.  I, of course, told him, no.  I promised to pay for his piano lessons, it doesn't matter that he is making money now, I still want to pay for the lessons.  And my son replied, it's like a covenant, right?  And so I told him - yeah, that's it (even if I never really thought of it that way).  My son then said he promises to be my retirement plan as his covenant to me.  I'm liking the way this kid thinks.  Hah hah.

2.)  So, he charges $15/lesson and he has these kids wanting lessons but he had to turn down a couple of them because he doesn't have the time to do it with his schoolwork and such.  His piano teacher told him he is charging too low.  My son said, $15 is fair because he doesn't have teaching experience.  And it's a lot more than what he would have made bagging groceries for the same length of time.   His piano teacher said, $20 is fair with his kind of talent and experience and the number of people wanting lessons from him.  Any able-bodied kid can bag groceries, not many kids can teach piano.  He needs to give his talent a certain level of respect.  So my son talked to me about it and he said his teacher is right, if he charges more, he can give more tithes and fast offerings.  I've never thought like that... I've always thought - I want more money so I can buy a bigger house.

3.)  So, then he has this money in the bank and I see him browsing amazon for keytars and otomatones and I'm thinking... No, child... NOOOO!  That's how I ended up in the poor house... browsing catalogues of stuff.  As Seen on TV ended up with a lot of my money!  And I just bought the red copper pan last week... I still haven't learned that lesson...

 

 

Your family is amazing. Good for you! You know you can save a lot of money by cancelling any tv service that has commercials and home shopping and moving to something that is commercial free. Normally the kids don't miss tv because they use the Internet. My niece listens to YouTube home crafting programs. The family buy crafting supplies but those crafts keep her occupied for weeks. We are in a situation where we have nothing to buy for her and her friends parents have the same problem!

e 

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

Your family is amazing. Good for you! You know you can save a lot of money by cancelling any tv service that has commercials and home shopping and moving to something that is commercial free. Normally the kids don't miss tv because they use the Internet. My niece listens to YouTube home crafting programs. The family buy crafting supplies but those crafts keep her occupied for weeks. We are in a situation where we have nothing to buy for her and her friends parents have the same problem!

e 

I can watch QVC all day long.... they're also on youtube... eeek!