anatess2 Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 9 minutes ago, Carborendum said: It looks like this http://www.modomed.com/cgi-bin/frontrunner.cgi?ri=100&rc=MODO&rs=T&ro=T&pln=MS&pid=MSCP&pm=&in=MDS9900025&whs=ALL&sid=MDS99000&msds=Mogen Circumcision Clamps&os=FRG_MSCP&ctc=1 Unfortunately, it isn't sold on Amazon anymore. So, I'll be paying through the nose for another source. And, no, the strap-down bed was not used on any of my boys. I know this guy with a machete, chews banana leaves, on the seaside... zil, Anddenex and classylady 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Carborendum said: Much concern is voiced by circumcision detractors about the additional invasiveness of the procedure for such males. If you've ever seen the procedure, it really isn't that invasive. This is just plain false. I was standing with my first son when he was circumcised and witnessed the entire grisly scene. He screamed louder than I heard him scream until he was a year old. It was excruciating for him, and for me. I will carry the guilt I felt for subjecting my precious baby boy to that barbaric procedure to my grave. When you say that circumcision does not hurt the baby, you are promulgating a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Vort said: This is just plain false. I was standing with my first son when he was circumcised and witnessed the entire grisly scene. He screamed louder than I heard him scream until he was a year old. It was excruciating for him, and for me. I will carry the guilt I felt for subjecting my precious baby boy to that barbaric procedure to my grave. When you say that circumcision does not hurt the baby, you are promulgating a lie. And I was present for four of them. No, I'm not. Don't accuse me of such. Whatever it was that you witnessed does not in any way describe what I witnessed. I don't know why you're doing this, Vort. You've been a respected person in my eyes. I've always appreciated your level head and sound reasoning. But you've accused me of being ignorant, a sinner, and now a liar. I don't appreciate it. Edited August 30, 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 3 hours ago, unixknight said: Ok, let's put aside the sparring for a second and go realtalk mode, @Vort, because I'm inclined to think you don't really mean to be as inflammatory as you're coming across but that's what happened. So here's the thing, and I'm sincerely looking to lay this one to rest peacefully here so work with me: You obviously have strong feelings on the subject and that's fine. The problem here is that you're using some strong terms which are very inflammatory and insulting to people who see things differently hand have made choices along those lines. Is it your intention to cause that response? Again, I think it probably wasn't, but I think you're smart enough to see why it's a problem. You aren't showing any respect whatsoever to your brethren who see it differently and decide differently, and you have no moral basis for that. Let's change this just slightly and see how well your arguments apply. In parts of Africa, the practice is to scarify the face of a baby boy. ("Scarify" means to cause scarring.) This is done by means of a hot iron, so it's branding. As black Africans typically develop keloid scars, this procedure raises pronounced disfigurement. The tribal members believe this endows the boy with masculine qualities, so it is a valued tradition. Now, suppose someone -- not an outsider, but someone from within the culture -- says, "Even though the parents mean well, this procedure is a permanent and unnecessary disfigurement of an innocent infant's face. It's barbaric and should not be done. If the boy wants his face scarified, he can do it when he's old enough to decide himself." Is he being "inflammatory"? Is he "insulting people who see things differently and have made choices along those lines"? Is he not "showing any respect whatsoever to [his] brethren who see it differently and decide differently", with "no moral basis" for his actions? In your view, what is the appropriate way for a man to bring up his disagreement with a practice he sees as barbaric and the reasons for that disagreement? Or are you saying that the tribal member is obligated never to mention that facial scarification strikes him as barbaric? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 17 minutes ago, Carborendum said: But you've accused me of being ignorant, a sinner, and now a liar. Ignorant: True. I think you are deeply ignorant on this topic. Sinner: False. I made no such accusation. Liar: False. Up your reading comprehension, Carb. You aren't doing it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 Thread closed. Too many personal attacks going on. Plus the conversation was getting a bit too graphic. kapikui and zil 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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