Social anxiety


Sunday21
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Dear Sisters and Bros,

i am teaching a lesson in a few weeks about welcoming others into the church. I was considering drawing a scale on the board and having one end of scale represent an unfriendly person and the opposiate end of the scale be Jesus Christ. Jesus would be very friendly to a new person in the church. He would introduce himself, learn the newcomers name, smile and wave on future meetings, take an interest in the person, have a conversation wth that person from time to time, nod to that person if they passed in the hall and so on. An unfriendly person would do none of those things. I was thinking of asking the sisters to place themselves on that scale and to write a brief description about what they do now for new members at church, do they

1) frown, say 'oh no not another person! I hope they leave soon and never come back!'

2) ignore the person and hope they go away

3) smile and wave but otherwise make no contact

4) smile and introduce yourself and immediately forget the new persons name

5) smile, introduce yourself, remember persons name, thereafter smile and wave

6) smile, wave, introduce yourself, introduce others to the person, on next meeting have a brief conversation

7) introduce self, ask person to sit with you in church, try to become friends

the idea is to teach that at the very least, we need people to smile and wave and if you are doing this to do one step more.

My question is, what about those with social anxiety, what is reasonable to expect these people to do in terms of welcoming others to church?

is social anxiety the same as shyness? Can we expect these people to be friendly to others? What are your thoughts?

 

 

Edited by Sunday21
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7 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

My question is, what about those with social anxiety, what is reasonable to expect these people to do in terms of welcoming others to church?  

is social anxiety the same as shyness? Can we expect these people to be friendly to others? What are your thoughts?

A person should always be welcoming & friendly.  "Welcoming" & "Friendly" does not always equal coming up and starting a conversation.  For example, a smile is welcoming and friendly, but doesn't need to involve any conversation.   

On the flip side unwelcoming also doesn't have to involve a conversation either.  For example, a person come to church in... non standard attire, or acts in a nonstandard way.  Do you judge such a person?  And to add insult to injury: does your body language show that judgement?

Edited by Jane_Doe
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19 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

My question is, what about those with social anxiety, what is reasonable to expect these people to do in terms of welcoming others to church?

is social anxiety the same as shyness? Can we expect these people to be friendly to others? What are your thoughts?

 

 

A fantastic way for members to combat social anxiety: give them Facebook info. For all the bashing that Facebook takes it's a wonderful tool for people who might struggle with social anxiety.  

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Sunday21, I know you mean well with this example but please don't use it. 

12 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Jesus would be very friendly to a new person in the church. He would introduce himself, learn the newcomers name, smile and wave on future meetings, take an interest in the person, have a conversation wth that person from time to time, nod to that person if they passed in the hall and so on

I know I have commented on one of your other post, and as you might remember I have social anxiety. This statement hurts so bad. I do not choose to have social anxiety, I wish I didn't, I have prayed and done all in my power to ask the Lord to help me overcome it, yet it seems to be the trial I have to endure (that and my depression).  Some days I can handle it and smile and talk but other days church is the hardest thing to attend, and I barely make it through, or come home to tremendous anxiety attacks. By making a statement as you said above, you are singling out those with anxiety, and I feel you are basically telling us we are not like the Savior and in fact we are the exact opposite of the Savior. And why? Because of something I can't control, something I desperately want to control but can't. I strive to become like the Savior in all that I do, but I fall short, I do have a hard time smiling, talking to people, introducing myself or having a conversation but does that make me any less like the Savior, I guess maybe so, but I don't think Christ see's it that way, at least I hope not. To be honest with you, and I don't mean to upset you or anything but reading your post made me feel worthless, like everything I strive to do it meaningless because I can't interact like Christ did. I know that wasn't your intent but please consider this and do not use this in your lesson. 

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Dear Miiav,

Thank you so much for your response. This unfair stigmatization is what I am concerned about. The new church policies on getting class members involved in lessons may, if used too heavily by those like myself make class members uncomfortable. Now clearly in this lesson plan, I am going beyond that and trying to get members to be warm to newcomers. I wonder if a better approach might be to focus on the positive. Have members think of a time when they were in a new situation, new to school, new to the neighbourhood, new to church and someone made them feel welcome. What did that person do? What did they say? How did you feel as a result? Would that be better? Anyway, I am sorry that I made you feel bad! ! ! Please don't desert me. I need your help. 

I also teach adults outside of church. In my institution the policy is very firm that we force everyone to give presentations. We have a first year course in which, students give longer and longer presentations until they finally give a 7 minute talk in front of class. The next year, they have me and I am meant to force them to give a group presentation.the idea is that we have two sets of customers: students and future employers. Future employers expect that if our students come with a set of skills one of which is the ability to speaking public. If you are unwilling to acquire this skill, we would prefer that such a person does not become one of our students. Anyway, this year, I thought that despite this policy, I would give students the option of avoiding the presentation. I have had an email from a student telling me that he has been avoiding my class for years because of social anxiety and asking to be excused from the presentation.i have told him that he is excused. I know nothing about social anxiety other than what I found on Google. I wonder if I have done this person any favours. Without the ability to speak up, he is less likely to be hired and more likely to be fired. Google says the condition is very amenable to cognitive therapy. There is an excellent book by Burns called the Feeling Good Handbook which is a cognitive therapy handbook. So what do you think, was I right to allow the student to skip the presentation contrary to the policies of the institution? Most of my colleagues would say that I should make the student face their fears as they do with phobias. What is your view?

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1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

The new church policies on getting class members involved in lessons may, if used too heavily by those like myself make class members uncomfortable.

This is why, IMO, we should get them involved by inviting each to study something privately (e.g. find a scripture, read one of these scriptures from the list, think on a favorite hymn; then ponder its application to a particular topic / question), and the invite those who want to share their insights.  If they read and ponder and listen, they are participating.

One more thing for you to ponder: the only options you have in your list for no contact imply negative motives and feelings.  As I'm sure you realize by now, it's possible for someone to not be out-going and yet have positive feelings.  That person who, for whatever reason, cannot bring themselves to go greet a stranger can be happy someone new has come to church, say a short prayer on their behalf, etc.

Also, it's possible the stranger is the one who's shy, introverted, or whatever, and if literally everyone did all the behaviors in 4-7, some people might turn and run the other direction when they see the entire herd ward barrelling toward them... :)

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10 hours ago, zil said:

This is why, IMO, we should get them involved by inviting each to study something privately (e.g. find a scripture, read one of these scriptures from the list, think on a favorite hymn; then ponder its application to a particular topic / question), and the invite those who want to share their insights.  If they read and ponder and listen, they are participating.

One more thing for you to ponder: the only options you have in your list for no contact imply negative motives and feelings.  As I'm sure you realize by now, it's possible for someone to not be out-going and yet have positive feelings.  That person who, for whatever reason, cannot bring themselves to go greet a stranger can be happy someone new has come to church, say a short prayer on their behalf, etc.

Also, it's possible the stranger is the one who's shy, introverted, or whatever, and if literally everyone did all the behaviors in 4-7, some people might turn and run the other direction when they see the entire herd ward barrelling toward them... :)

Good points! 

Yes, the list needs to go!

i like the idea of saying a prayer for the new person. is a smile and a wave too much to expect?

the chances of everyone mobbing the person is zero! We are not a very friendly ward ...sigh! We have a small number of friendly people...I work hard when I go to church! I am greeting, chatting, comforting, accompanying new members to gospel principles. I feel like I run the place! Although the bishopric are trying. Last week, members of the bishopic were by the front door greeting people which was a big help. I wonder if part of the problem is that we are mostly converts so people behave the way they would if there was a paid clergy.

Perhaps buzz groups is the way to go. We have so many people with English as a second language that buzz groups give them a better chance to listen to someone and to understand (why do those who do not speak English well sit in the back row?) and to talk in a small group. I think that I will go with 'how did you feel when someone made you feel welcome' idea. I will keep the find a scripture and ponder it idea in my back pocket. Thanks for the ideas!

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10 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

 

i like the idea of saying a prayer for the new person. is a smile and a wave too much to expect?

 

 I totally agree Sunday. 

Sadly though this is the kind of advice that those who need it won't listen and those who will listen don't need too.  

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13 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

is a smile and a wave too much to expect?

I'm sure it depends on the person.  I have no experience with social anxiety, only with extreme introversion.  For me, a smile and a wave isn't hard.

I know the chances of everyone mobbing a person are zero, but that's basically what the lesson is suggesting - everyone should be doing 4-7, cuz they're the Christlike thing to do.  But the side-effect of everyone doing that is a stampede. :)

Please consider that your definition of friendly and another's may be very different.  (Not saying you're wrong, just suggesting it's worth pondering - if I remember right, you have people from diverse cultures, and what's socially acceptable, friendly, polite, etc. can vary greatly.)

Keep in mind too that if you, for example, always rush to do the job before someone for whom it's less natural has the chance to process the situation, realize what they ought to do, then force themselves to do it, you're not helping them.  (Yes, I realize this is a difficult situation as you don't want to leave the newbie stranded.  Perhaps instead of just doing it yourself, you could go to someone you know and invite them to come with you - for introverts, that's much more comfortable than going alone, probably for shy people too - for someone with social anxiety, it would probably be just as stressful, so you should find out who they are and not ask them.)

13 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Perhaps buzz groups is the way to go.

For someone with social anxiety, this won't be any easier, I think.  Personally, I hate these (not sure why).  Anywho, don't force people to participate if they choose to stay by themselves and it should be fine.

FWIW

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

 I totally agree Sunday. 

Sadly though this is the kind of advice that those who need it won't listen and those who will listen don't need too.  

So true! So true! I was hoping that if pondered on their own experiences as newbies they would have some compassion for others. How to touch their hearts?

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1 hour ago, zil said:

I'm sure it depends on the person.  I have no experience with social anxiety, only with extreme introversion.  For me, a smile and a wave isn't hard.

I know the chances of everyone mobbing a person are zero, but that's basically what the lesson is suggesting - everyone should be doing 4-7, cuz they're the Christlike thing to do.  But the side-effect of everyone doing that is a stampede. :)

Please consider that your definition of friendly and another's may be very different.  (Not saying you're wrong, just suggesting it's worth pondering - if I remember right, you have people from diverse cultures, and what's socially acceptable, friendly, polite, etc. can vary greatly.)

Keep in mind too that if you, for example, always rush to do the job before someone for whom it's less natural has the chance to process the situation, realize what they ought to do, then force themselves to do it, you're not helping them.  (Yes, I realize this is a difficult situation as you don't want to leave the newbie stranded.  Perhaps instead of just doing it yourself, you could go to someone you know and invite them to come with you - for introverts, that's much more comfortable than going alone, probably for shy people too - for someone with social anxiety, it would probably be just as stressful, so you should find out who they are and not ask them.)

For someone with social anxiety, this won't be any easier, I think.  Personally, I hate these (not sure why).  Anywho, don't force people to participate if they choose to stay by themselves and it should be fine.

FWIW

Thanks for the tips! I will ponder!

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On 9/11/2016 at 2:48 PM, Sunday21 said:

Dear Sisters and Bros,

i am teaching a lesson in a few weeks about welcoming others into the church. I was considering drawing a scale on the board and having one end of scale represent an unfriendly person and the opposiate end of the scale be Jesus Christ. Jesus would be very friendly to a new person in the church. He would introduce himself, learn the newcomers name, smile and wave on future meetings, take an interest in the person, have a conversation wth that person from time to time, nod to that person if they passed in the hall and so on. An unfriendly person would do none of those things. I was thinking of asking the sisters to place themselves on that scale and to write a brief description about what they do now for new members at church, do they

1) frown, say 'oh no not another person! I hope they leave soon and never come back!'

2) ignore the person and hope they go away

3) smile and wave but otherwise make no contact

4) smile and introduce yourself and immediately forget the new persons name

5) smile, introduce yourself, remember persons name, thereafter smile and wave

6) smile, wave, introduce yourself, introduce others to the person, on next meeting have a brief conversation

7) introduce self, ask person to sit with you in church, try to become friends

the idea is to teach that at the very least, we need people to smile and wave and if you are doing this to do one step more.

My question is, what about those with social anxiety, what is reasonable to expect these people to do in terms of welcoming others to church?

is social anxiety the same as shyness? Can we expect these people to be friendly to others? What are your thoughts?

 

 

I too, have suffered social anxiety. I know what it is like. I still have it, but less. I suffered even more because of social anxiety, it lead to depression. Having difficulty making friends sucks bad. As my brain automatically reacts to little things. What I did was get familiar with the environment, get help, talk with the family (I know this is difficult, but we need the support), I read some self-help books about social anxiety. Try reading "Love yourself like your life depends on it" and "The Gifts of Imperfection", I also gave my life to our savior Jesus Christ, as I got closer to God and Jesus Christ, and reading more of the scriptures, I became a calmer as I approach stranger (it really helps to smile and think of positive things)! Pray to Heavenly Father for guidance in relieving social anxiety. I challenged myself to be in uncomfortable situations. Try Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.

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13 minutes ago, curious_mormon said:

I too, have suffered social anxiety. I know what it is like. I still have it, but less. I suffered even more because of social anxiety, it lead to depression. Having difficulty making friends sucks bad. As my brain automatically reacts to little things. What I did was get familiar with the environment, get help, talk with the family (I know this is difficult, but we need the support), I read some self-help books about social anxiety. Try reading "Love yourself like your life depends on it" and "The Gifts of Imperfection", I also gave my life to our savior Jesus Christ, as I got closer to God and Jesus Christ, and reading more of the scriptures, I became a calmer as I approach stranger (it really helps to smile and think of positive things)! Pray to Heavenly Father for guidance in relieving social anxiety. I challenged myself to be in uncomfortable situations. Try Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.

Thanks for your posting! Did I understand you correctly? Did you try cognitive therapy? With success? Do you have any suggestions for getting those with social anxiety to greet new members? Is a smile and wave too much to ask?

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6 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Thanks for your posting! Did I understand you correctly? Did you try cognitive therapy? With success? Do you have any suggestions for getting those with social anxiety to greet new members? Is a smile and wave too much to ask?

Yes, I tried CBT or cognitive behavioral therapy but did not continue it as I couldn't afford it. However, I found a cheaper alternative to it, there are numerous CBT books out there in Amazon or in the library. It has been a success...CBT is all about being courageous and that not everything is awkward as you think it is. For those with social anxiety, I would suggest that doing groupwork or teamwork is very helpful, if it looks like the socially anxious person is uncomfortable (signs like sweaty palms, being too quiet, shy eyes, anxiety), I would probably challenge the person (at least twice a week) to stand up (optional) and let them give their opinions to what you are questioning or about your lesson. If they don't feel like speaking up, I would encourage them and cheer them up and say that no one is judging you in this room. This is what CBT is all about. Being comfortable about being uncomfortable. Socially anxious people may have very minimal person to person interaction and may have been bullied or called names in the past....that's why encouragement and cheerfulness really helps on their part. FOr those with social anxiety, they will hardly ever approach people to greet, it's better if a third person initiates the small talk for them...for example:

Hey have you met my friend Robert? he's really cool...

something like that.

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41 minutes ago, curious_mormon said:

Yes, I tried CBT or cognitive behavioral therapy but did not continue it as I couldn't afford it. However, I found a cheaper alternative to it, there are numerous CBT books out there in Amazon or in the library. It has been a success...CBT is all about being courageous and that not everything is awkward as you think it is. For those with social anxiety, I would suggest that doing groupwork or teamwork is very helpful, if it looks like the socially anxious person is uncomfortable (signs like sweaty palms, being too quiet, shy eyes, anxiety), I would probably challenge the person (at least twice a week) to stand up (optional) and let them give their opinions to what you are questioning or about your lesson. If they don't feel like speaking up, I would encourage them and cheer them up and say that no one is judging you in this room. This is what CBT is all about. Being comfortable about being uncomfortable. Socially anxious people may have very minimal person to person interaction and may have been bullied or called names in the past....that's why encouragement and cheerfulness really helps on their part. FOr those with social anxiety, they will hardly ever approach people to greet, it's better if a third person initiates the small talk for them...for example:

Hey have you met my friend Robert? he's really cool...

something like that.

Thank you so much! This is very helpful. I am glad that things have improved for you. Sounds like you learned a lot!

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3 hours ago, zil said:

Perhaps instead of just doing it yourself, you could go to someone you know and invite them to come with you - for introverts, that's much more comfortable than going alone, probably for shy people too - for someone with social anxiety, it would probably be just as stressful, so you should find out who they are and not ask them.

As a shy extrovert, that would be quite a bit more comfortable for me as well.

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Don't worry Sunday 21, I know you didn't mean to hurt anyone.  Its nice to read other accounts of others who are shy or suffer from social anxiety. We are all so different so what works for one might not work for another and its hard to find the balance. I read through the new "manual" or guidlines the church had put forth and I was disappointed they didn't address that everyone does have to their own way of learning and we need to me respectful for those who may not feel comfortable or may not be able to participate. I think if the church ever comes out with an updated version it will be added, because I know I am not the only person who has this problem.

Zil is exactly right :     

16 hours ago, zil said:

This is why, IMO, we should get them involved by inviting each to study something privately (e.g. find a scripture, read one of these scriptures from the list, think on a favorite hymn; then ponder its application to a particular topic / question), and the invite those who want to share their insights.  If they read and ponder and listen, they are participating.

For me participating doesn't necessarily involve talking in class and sharing experiences, I  can still participate while looking up the scripture they as us to look up, think of how it applies to my life or listening to to how it has helped others in their life 

I have been to counceling many times and have learned to use  Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. And trust me its the only thing that gets me through church and even through the rest of the week. I have two of Burns books, I wouldn't be going to church if I hadn't applied or continue to apply some of is methods of combating anxiety. I have to constantly talk myself down from my social anxiety and negative thoughts. It has helped tremendously but not cured me. 

my church isn't the most friendly ward and i think that's what makes it harder for me, I have lived in the ward since I was 10 and I am now in my 30's. Although it professes to be the friendly ward that anyone has ever been too, I have rarely felt welcomed. Long back story so I won't get into that but some days it so hard to go to church, like the most impossible thing to do, but I somehow make it, on those days even a smile and wave is hard, I just want to go, get through it and leave, with as little interaction as possible. Other days are easier. So I would say it is really up to the person and the kind of day they are having as to whether they will participate or not.

i might suggest you talk to the people you see struggling in church. Reach out to them personally and ask how THEY would like to participate in class.would they like encouragement participate or would they rather be left alone (If a teacher asked me I would choose the being left along to ponder on the lesson on my own). This does need to be done with sensitivity though because some might feel embarrassed or singled out. So try not to make it sound as if you are only talking with those who are shy or have anxiety.

My cat won't let me type anymore, lol, I hope this has helped, I would be glad to help you in anyway I can. Again we are all different so others with social anxiety may have a total different opinion than I do. But just putting my two cents in.

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4 hours ago, miav said:

Don't worry Sunday 21, I know you didn't mean to hurt anyone.  Its nice to read other accounts of others who are shy or suffer from social anxiety. We are all so different so what works for one might not work for another and its hard to find the balance. I read through the new "manual" or guidlines the church had put forth and I was disappointed they didn't address that everyone does have to their own way of learning and we need to me respectful for those who may not feel comfortable or may not be able to participate. I think if the church ever comes out with an updated version it will be added, because I know I am not the only person who has this problem.

Zil is exactly right :     

For me participating doesn't necessarily involve talking in class and sharing experiences, I  can still participate while looking up the scripture they as us to look up, think of how it applies to my life or listening to to how it has helped others in their life 

I have been to counceling many times and have learned to use  Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. And trust me its the only thing that gets me through church and even through the rest of the week. I have two of Burns books, I wouldn't be going to church if I hadn't applied or continue to apply some of is methods of combating anxiety. I have to constantly talk myself down from my social anxiety and negative thoughts. It has helped tremendously but not cured me. 

my church isn't the most friendly ward and i think that's what makes it harder for me, I have lived in the ward since I was 10 and I am now in my 30's. Although it professes to be the friendly ward that anyone has ever been too, I have rarely felt welcomed. Long back story so I won't get into that but some days it so hard to go to church, like the most impossible thing to do, but I somehow make it, on those days even a smile and wave is hard, I just want to go, get through it and leave, with as little interaction as possible. Other days are easier. So I would say it is really up to the person and the kind of day they are having as to whether they will participate or not.

i might suggest you talk to the people you see struggling in church. Reach out to them personally and ask how THEY would like to participate in class.would they like encouragement participate or would they rather be left alone (If a teacher asked me I would choose the being left along to ponder on the lesson on my own). This does need to be done with sensitivity though because some might feel embarrassed or singled out. So try not to make it sound as if you are only talking with those who are shy or have anxiety.

My cat won't let me type anymore, lol, I hope this has helped, I would be glad to help you in anyway I can. Again we are all different so others with social anxiety may have a total different opinion than I do. But just putting my two cents in.

Thanks so much! I am sorry that you are going through this. I really appreciate your help. 

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On 11/09/2016 at 7:48 PM, Sunday21 said:

Dear Sisters and Bros,

i am teaching a lesson in a few weeks about welcoming others into the church. I was considering drawing a scale on the board and having one end of scale represent an unfriendly person and the opposiate end of the scale be Jesus Christ. Jesus would be very friendly to a new person in the church. He would introduce himself, learn the newcomers name, smile and wave on future meetings, take an interest in the person, have a conversation wth that person from time to time, nod to that person if they passed in the hall and so on. An unfriendly person would do none of those things. I was thinking of asking the sisters to place themselves on that scale and to write a brief description about what they do now for new members at church, do they

1) frown, say 'oh no not another person! I hope they leave soon and never come back!'

2) ignore the person and hope they go away

3) smile and wave but otherwise make no contact

4) smile and introduce yourself and immediately forget the new persons name

5) smile, introduce yourself, remember persons name, thereafter smile and wave

6) smile, wave, introduce yourself, introduce others to the person, on next meeting have a brief conversation

7) introduce self, ask person to sit with you in church, try to become friends

the idea is to teach that at the very least, we need people to smile and wave and if you are doing this to do one step more.

My question is, what about those with social anxiety, what is reasonable to expect these people to do in terms of welcoming others to church?

is social anxiety the same as shyness? Can we expect these people to be friendly to others? What are your thoughts?

 

 

I get aniexty I'm also a newbie in my ward.  I found focusing on others saved me from getting anxious about being somewhere new or not knowing what I was doing.    Now I've been going to Church 10 months and everyone knows me, I spend time with lots of people outside of Church and ive had people say they feel blessed I've joined the ward 

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4 minutes ago, An Investigator said:

I get aniexty I'm also a newbie in my ward.  I found focusing on others saved me from getting anxious about being somewhere new or not knowing what I was doing.    Now I've been going to Church 10 months and everyone knows me, I spend time with lots of people outside of Church and ive had people say they feel blessed I've joined the ward 

Good for you! What would you think if I asked people to work in small groups. I could ask the group to read scriptures about strangers who needed help. Missionaries in the book of mormon who received help. Jesus asking someone to invite him for dinner. I could ask "What would Jesus suggest that we do to welcome new members?" What could you personally do to welcome new members/those who are new to the ward?". What would you think?

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