Ant-Mormon MIL over for Christmas

[Jane_Doe]

18 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

To the suggestion of threatening MIL with expulsion for bad behavior, I'd suggest caution.  Would hubby be okay with this?  

He would scold me for causing drama.

18 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

 Does he agree that his mother's behavior is unacceptable?  

He thinks her behavior is not good, but not so much that he wants to "cause drama".

18 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

His refusal to engage his mother on this is the elephant in the room. 

The way his family handles problems is to ignore all elephants.

18 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

, then trying to muddle through, and make it as mildly miserable as possible may be a working solution.  It seems like punting, but most families have the difficult member that people just learn how to maneuver around, and put up with.  You gotta love her, but you don't have to like her.

Strange thing: as long as faith doesn't come up, she adores everything about me!  And mostly vise-versa.  I do love her very much.

 

Edited September 19, 2016 by Jane_Doe

[prisonchaplain]

If there is anyone in MIL's life, possibly someone her age, who could invite her to a small group, or home Bible study, that might be less intimidating for her (she may anxious in large crowds).  Many churches now have these types of meetings, and it might help her re-approach Christian fellowship.  I have to believe that once she is supported by a group of fellow believers, she will become more tolerable towards you, and others she does not agree with.

[Jane_Doe]

11 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

If there is anyone in MIL's life, possibly someone her age, who could invite her to a small group, or home Bible study, that might be less intimidating for her (she may anxious in large crowds).  Many churches now have these types of meetings, and it might help her re-approach Christian fellowship.  I have to believe that once she is supported by a group of fellow believers, she will become more tolerable towards you, and others she does not agree with.

One of her problems (there are several) is that she's CFO of the largest company in her tiny town (town has <1,000 people).  She finds it awkward mixing of work/personal life to listen to ministers and group leaders that are her employees.  She's tried going to church in the next town over (45 minutes) but it's a long and demotivating drive.  And still a lot of those people are her employees.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Jane_Doe

[Guest MormonGator]

29 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

  You gotta love her, but you don't have to like her.

Pc and Jane, I got nothing but love for both of you. I'm sorry if this comes out harsh, that is NOT my intention. Granted I don't know the situation @Jane_Doe didn't invite me to Christmas this year. The nerve of her!- but I think it depends on how uncomfortable your MIL is making you feel. No one has the right to place their personal feelings above everyone else and ruin it for everyone with uncomfortable drama. I think you might need to address it firmly with both your husband and MIL. 

Edited September 19, 2016 by MormonGator

[prisonchaplain]

Jane, any added advice might have would be for MIL.  So, here's what I've got:  Heavenly Father, grant Jane_Doe incredible wisdom, and grant her family unity and peace. May this Christmas turn out far better than she envisions.  Also, LORD, use your people to bring this MIL back into Christian fellowship. You know best how that will look, but guide this MIL towards your people in a way that empowers her to love more freely, and to walk with much less anxiety.

[zil]

17 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

The way his family handles problems is to ignore all elephants.

I recommend hanging this on the tree so you can laugh every time you see it.  And / or this. And / or this.  You won't be able to help enjoying Christmas.

[Sunday21]

Dear Jane,

So sorry this is happening. I think you are stuck with crabby pants. At least she likes everything else about you!

 I am hosting my militant atheist family for Xmas. I will ditch church to make dinner. Sometimes for family harmony, you just have to suck it up. Hopefully it will be a short visit!

[zil]

32 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

crabby pants

@Jane_Doe: maybe you should buy your MIL a pair of pants, with crabs all over them, for Christmas...

[pam]

7 hours ago, zil said:

 

1. Find an Evangelical who is not so anti-Mormon to speak with her (and, you just posted something which makes it seem like this won't work cuz she's religious without being religious?!)

@prisonchaplain  May I introduce you to the MIL?

[Maureen]

Jane, I re-read your OP and she's from out of town so she will be spending a week with you, is that correct? If so, I don't think it's a bad decision to let her know that you would really appreciate civil behavior. Even if she doesn't attend church, there's no reason why she can't have a happy Christmas attitude. It really is her choice and if she's given the information a head of time, she has time to make a decision.

M.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Jane, this is tough because I really think your husband should deal with it. But since he won't, and I think I understand correctly that other than this the two of you have a good relationship, then I think you should just address it head on.  Say to her, "Mom-in-law, you know i love you and Christmas is important to both of us.  I don't know if you've realized but Christmas is on Sunday this year.  I don't want to make you uncomfortable, but I will be attending church.  So if you would be more comfortable visiting on Thanksgiving instead of Christmas, I would not be offended."

If she's given this opportunity to bow out politely then insists on coming and pouting...then you know you tried.  She might just pout.  I believe your other guests will see this as an issue between your husband and you MIL...because it is.  

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Husband has been of the opinion of "I am not getting involved with this!"    Yes, this annoys me, but he's not changing his stance at all.

You obviously love your husband and may not want to hear this.  But...

He is failing in his priesthood responsibilities.

He is not supposed to referee.  He's supposed to support his wife above all others and be answerable to God alone for that stewardship.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Guest

[prisonchaplain]

Here I am...back to urging caution. I'm not sure how easily this gets used in LDS circles, but the idea of a man failing his role as a spiritual leader is one I've seen used broadly (Where are the men of the church?  We need leadership!)  However, within an individual household, IMHO concerns about someone failing would need to start in-house.  It was shared previously that the hubby does not see the MIL's pouting as serious enough for him to be involved.  OP may be more frustrated about it, but until the disagreement becomes strong enough that she decides there is a failure, then it's really not.  I suppose that if the situation gets worse, trips to the bishop will begin, and wise, "real life" counsel will be sought. 

[NightSG]

16 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

My husband's parents divorced when he was a toddler.  So it's the Evangelical MIL (she never remarried), and the atheist FIL with his new wife (they've been together since my husband was ~6).  

But I'm sure he had lots of male role models at church, school, etc.  

[estradling75]

27 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

Here I am...back to urging caution. I'm not sure how easily this gets used in LDS circles, but the idea of a man failing his role as a spiritual leader is one I've seen used broadly (Where are the men of the church?  We need leadership!)  However, within an individual household, IMHO concerns about someone failing would need to start in-house.  It was shared previously that the hubby does not see the MIL's pouting as serious enough for him to be involved.  OP may be more frustrated about it, but until the disagreement becomes strong enough that she decides there is a failure, then it's really not.  I suppose that if the situation gets worse, trips to the bishop will begin, and wise, "real life" counsel will be sought. 

Indeed...  Jane Doe came asking advice...  which is what she got.  Generally speaking it is the married Child's responsibility to deal with conflicts between their parents and their spouse...  It is not a man thing or a priesthood thing.. its a married adult thing...  Jane Doe's husband has abdicated his adult responsibility in this matter.  Naturally some advice that is given it going to involve giving him a good swift kick in the pants to encourage him to act like a married adult.

Jane Doe is of course free to take whatever advice she wants... after all she is the only one that has to deal with the fall out

 

 

[anatess2]

Hmm... your husband doesn't think it's bad enough to cause drama.  He can be right.

In any case, you can't control your MIL, you can only control how you react to her.  So, here are your 2 choices:

1.)  Since you both love your MIL, you can't really put yourself in as a wedge between your husband and his mother.  So, you can make the sacrifice and ignore the pouting and shower your MIL with extra love and kindness as a Christmas present to God and your MIL.

2.)  If you can't ignore the expected negativity, then you tell your husband you can't do it and that you're going to visit her before or after Christmas instead.  Remember, your husband can't control your MIL either.  He can only try to get her to cooperate.  She may say yes, but then she shows up at your house and still can't help but mope.  So, you're still back to option 1.

In any case... your MIL has a weakness - we all have it.  If it was my MIL, I'd just accept it and move on.  If she mopes, then I just tell her straight up - I really hope you wouldn't mope, it makes things really difficult for everybody.  And then I'd do some super nice things to help her stop moping.

Okay, disclaimer... I may be biased here because in my family, my mother is the anti-Mormon MIL and my husband and I have agreed that we can handle her bashing the Church in our house rather than her not visiting at all.  She, of course, is a devout Catholic who thinks I'm going straight to hell if she doesn't save me from my folly.  I understand where she's coming from and I love her for caring enough about me to try to save me.

Edited September 20, 2016 by anatess2

[NightSG]

22 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Hmm... your husband doesn't think it's bad enough to cause drama.  He can be right.

And the sky can be purple with neon green polka dots.  Just not in any universe we have access to.

"Avoiding drama" is the primary cause of serious drama.  You can't make it go away by ignoring it, all you can do is shuffle it off to somewhere you can pretend it went away.  In this case, the husband is shuffling it off onto his wife and pretending it's not worth doing anything[1] about.  Clearly, it bothers her enough that she has attempted to address it multiple times, and then came here to seek advice, and yet he doesn't want to deal with it.  You can't make that right.

Quote

In any case, you can't control your MIL,

You have a lot to learn about practical applications of psychology.  Or torture if you're not into subtlety.

Quote

you can make the sacrifice and ignore the pouting and shower your MIL with extra love and kindness as a Christmas present to God and your MIL.

Sounds like she's tried that, and it's still leaving her unhappy with the situation.  These are the kinds of things that, no matter how small we like to pretend they are, pile up and breed resentment over time.  That's not good for a marriage, or any relationship for that matter.

[1] Specifically, it's not worth challenging the unchallenged, unchecked head of his childhood household...and from the sound of it, not all that far from being the head of his current household, too, since he refuses to fulfill that duty wen she's involved.  This is why children need two parents; to show them from the beginning that adults, even fathers righteously and confidently leading the household, are open to wise counsel and compromise.

[Jane_Doe]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

You obviously love your husband and may not want to hear this.  But...

He is failing in his priesthood responsibilities.

He is not supposed to referee.  He's supposed to support his wife above all others and be answerable to God alone for that stewardship.

Support his wife on this particular issue?  Yes.  But he supports me in many more important ways, including many lengthy discussions this summer about taking out my endowments.

Note: my husband is not LDS.  He's more non-active non-denom.  He typically comes to Church on Christmas because I ask him to, with "pretty please" attached.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Jane_Doe

[Jane_Doe]

1 hour ago, estradling75 said:

Jane Doe is of course free to take whatever advice she wants... after all she is the only one that has to deal with the fall out

I actually do appreciate the spectrum of advice.  It helps see all perspectives and make a careful choice before proceeding. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Note: my husband is not LDS. 

Oh.  That makes things tougher then.  Sorry.

[omegaseamaster75]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Oh.  That makes things tougher then.  Sorry.

Why would that make things tougher?  Him not being LDS is not the issue at hand.  Do LDS men have a magic stick that resolves familial problems? or should they just know that they should stand up for their wives by virtue of holding the priesthood...no.  Their are plenty of good men who do not share our faith, frankly go to church this Sunday and take a look around, it's a who's who of men who are derelict in their priesthood duties (and that's just the one who bothered to show up). 

I agree that his wife should not have to deal with the MIL, her husband should suck it up and deal with his mom. It sounds like this is not going to happen and Jane_doe does not want to hold his feet to the fire on it, so there is no advice to be given really.....

Edited September 20, 2016 by omegaseamaster75

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, NightSG said:

And the sky can be purple with neon green polka dots.  Just not in any universe we have access to.

"Avoiding drama" is the primary cause of serious drama.  You can't make it go away by ignoring it, all you can do is shuffle it off to somewhere you can pretend it went away.  In this case, the husband is shuffling it off onto his wife and pretending it's not worth doing anything[1] about.  Clearly, it bothers her enough that she has attempted to address it multiple times, and then came here to seek advice, and yet he doesn't want to deal with it.  You can't make that right.

 

Sure.  That would be the case if Jane Doe's perception/perspective is dead-on accurate.  I am merely pointing out that... as John Doe is not here to defend himself... he can be right.  Perspective matters in a lot of these conflict-type cases and just because John Doe doesn't think it's bad enough to be concerned with that he's automatically ignoring it or shuffling it or any of the kind.  He might just really believe his mother's weakness is not something to have to make a fuss over.  We all have weaknesses.  There are times when it is better to just let other people be themselves and take the good with the bad instead of having to fight over it.  Is this one of those times?  Well, that's why I said - he CAN be right.  It's up to John and Jane to figure it out.

 

1 hour ago, NightSG said:

You have a lot to learn about practical applications of psychology.  Or torture if you're not into subtlety.

And you have a lot to learn about free agency.

 

1 hour ago, NightSG said:

Sounds like she's tried that, and it's still leaving her unhappy with the situation.  These are the kinds of things that, no matter how small we like to pretend they are, pile up and breed resentment over time.  That's not good for a marriage, or any relationship for that matter.

Hence option #2.

In any case, things will only breed resentment over time if you let it.  In any case, you are the master of your feelings and your side of the marital covenant.  Forgiveness is a powerful thing.

 

1 hour ago, NightSG said:

[1] Specifically, it's not worth challenging the unchallenged, unchecked head of his childhood household...and from the sound of it, not all that far from being the head of his current household, too, since he refuses to fulfill that duty wen she's involved.  This is why children need two parents; to show them from the beginning that adults, even fathers righteously and confidently leading the household, are open to wise counsel and compromise.

Sure.  Hence my 2 cents gives one penny to Jane and the other penny to John... an advice tempered by 2 differing perspectives.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Why would that make things tougher?  Him not being LDS is not the issue at hand. Their are plenty of good men who do not share our faith, frankly go to church this Sunday and take a look around, it's a who's who of men who are derelict in their priesthood duties. 

I agree that his wife should not have to deal with the MIL, her husband should suck it up and deal with his mom. It sounds like this is not going to happen and Jane_doe does not want to hold his feet to the fire on it, so there is no advice to be given really.....

Let me add a phrase to my earlier post that I was reluctant to add because of space considerations.

Quote

He's supposed to support his wife in all worthy endeavors above all others and be answerable to God alone for that stewardship.

If he's not LDS, then he has a different idea of whether or not this is a worthy endeavor.  If he just doesn't believe in the faith, then that is not something for which he necessarily needs to offer support.

That is why it is tougher.

You are correct that there is still the issue of wife and mother getting along.  But the motivation for fixing it -- being in conflict with his position on it -- is more difficult for him to reconcile. (I know I poorly worded this, but I hope you get what I'm saying).

Edited September 20, 2016 by Guest

[omegaseamaster75]

10 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Let me add a phrase to my earlier post that I was reluctant to add because of space considerations.

If he's not LDS, then he has a different idea of whether or not this is a worthy endeavor.  If he just doesn't believe in the faith, then that is not something for which he necessarily needs to offer support.

 

Being LDS has nothing to do with whether or not he offers his support.  Nothing.  You don't have to be LDS to know that you should support your wife in these types of things. They don't teach that in Sunday school or priesthood.

 

11 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

That is why it is tougher.

You are correct that there is still the issue of wife and mother getting along.  But the motivation for fixing it -- being in conflict with his position on it -- is more difficult for him to reconcile. (I know I poorly worded this, but I hope you get what I'm saying).

I don't know John doe and as a armchair psychologist I would say he has issues with his mother. He refusal to deal with the situation tells you all you need to know about that singular aspect of his relationship. This does not make him a bad person or a bad husband, but It's not going to change without outside help. 

[NightSG]

12 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

If he's not LDS, then he has a different idea of whether or not this is a worthy endeavor.

Pretty sure every Judeo-Christian faith includes that whole Genesis 2:24 bit that makes it crystal clear where his priority needs to be.

13 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

He might just really believe his mother's weakness is not something to have to make a fuss over.

Irrelevant; his wife's happiness is something he has a duty to make a fuss over.  

I know a bull snake is nothing to make a fuss over.  That doesn't mean I told my ex wife to stop bothering me about them.