Religious OCD--Advice Needed


utterlyineffable
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Hey,

I have really bad religious OCD. When I was seeing a CBT therapist, it was a lot better (years ago), but it's relapsed lately and it would help to get an outside perspective to see what is religious guilt and what is OCD. Right now, I am working a job that requires a lot of mentoring and advising students, have a steady boyfriend, and am strongly involved in the church. 
 
But I also struggle a lot with a couple of things: masturbation and reading the scriptures. Every once and a while I'll slip up on the former and the latter, I'm trying to get a lot better at. Here's where the OCD comes in: I get a lot of anxiety that if I do or don't do a certain thing, then it will have eternal consequences. Like if I slip up on the first thing, then I'll think "I will never get married because of this, God is going to punish me" or "because of this, I won't be able to have the spiritual strength to guide the students in my job." Same if I miss a day of scripture study. I get so anxious that if I mess up, it will have irreversible consequences and result in loss of blessings (very specific ones, too) that I can never gain back.
 
It's getting to the point where it's everything. Listening to a song that has a bit of swearing--eternal consequences. Not being as giving and kind as I could be--eternal consequences. Skipping Sunday School because the teacher is boring--consequences. Forgetting to say a prayer before bed--consequences. But mostly the main two things mentioned above, I've just noticed it's spreading lately.
 
How do I know if these are feelings that God or the Holy Ghost are prompting or if it's just OCD? I feel really guilty for doing these things and am trying to stop, but it's hard to separate what is guilt and what is OCD. Does God revoke blessings permanently for messing up or take away the ability to do well at one's job? What can I do to deal with these thoughts?
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7 hours ago, utterlyineffable said:

Hey,

I have really bad religious OCD. When I was seeing a CBT therapist, it was a lot better (years ago), but it's relapsed lately and it would help to get an outside perspective to see what is religious guilt and what is OCD. Right now, I am working a job that requires a lot of mentoring and advising students, have a steady boyfriend, and am strongly involved in the church. 
 
But I also struggle a lot with a couple of things: masturbation and reading the scriptures. Every once and a while I'll slip up on the former and the latter, I'm trying to get a lot better at. Here's where the OCD comes in: I get a lot of anxiety that if I do or don't do a certain thing, then it will have eternal consequences. Like if I slip up on the first thing, then I'll think "I will never get married because of this, God is going to punish me" or "because of this, I won't be able to have the spiritual strength to guide the students in my job." Same if I miss a day of scripture study. I get so anxious that if I mess up, it will have irreversible consequences and result in loss of blessings (very specific ones, too) that I can never gain back.
 
It's getting to the point where it's everything. Listening to a song that has a bit of swearing--eternal consequences. Not being as giving and kind as I could be--eternal consequences. Skipping Sunday School because the teacher is boring--consequences. Forgetting to say a prayer before bed--consequences. But mostly the main two things mentioned above, I've just noticed it's spreading lately.
 
How do I know if these are feelings that God or the Holy Ghost are prompting or if it's just OCD? I feel really guilty for doing these things and am trying to stop, but it's hard to separate what is guilt and what is OCD. Does God revoke blessings permanently for messing up or take away the ability to do well at one's job? What can I do to deal with these thoughts?

A question:  What do you know about false spirits (evil spirits?  According to Elder George A. Smith, the cousin of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Joseph taught more about the discerning of spirits than any other subject.  Why, you might ask?  Because false spirits are some of the most destructive spirits there are and their job is to give out false information and false revelation.  Joseph wrote and extensive editorial in the Times and Seasons called, "Try the Spirits."  Out of that article, Joseph received the revelation giving us the 50th section of the Doctrine and Covenants, which talks about false spirits. 

If you want to know whether or not something is from God, you need correct knowledge.  Remember that the Holy Spirit will bring all things to your remembrance, but if you do not have knowledge to bring back in the first place, then there is nothing for the Spirit to bring back.  I would start by gaining correct knowledge about how false spirits work.  A good place to start is to download this treatise and study it. 

Porn, sickness, evil spirits and the priesthood.pdf

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Welcome, utterlyineffable!  I have a few scriptures which I think would benefit your effort.  First, I'm going to say, technically, you're right, everything we do has an eternal impact, but I suspect you're (a) thinking it's greater than it is, and (b) forgetting that making things right is the whole reason Christ came to the earth.  We are all imperfect and in need of continual repentance, and that was planned for.  Satan is the only one who wants you to feel bad about this, to the point of giving up or crushing your self worth.  God wants you to continually strive for better, relying on Jesus Christ to help you.

Now, a few scriptures:

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/isa/28.13?lang=eng#12

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/98.12?lang=eng#11

...both of those demonstrates that the Lord expects us to learn bit by bit - He knows we don't know everything all at once.  Part of learning is not just knowing, but doing, and it takes time after we know something before we are successful at consistently doing it.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/93.11-14?lang=eng#10

...even Christ himself progressed "from grace to grace".

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/isa/1.18?lang=eng#17

No matter how bad our sins, they can be forgiven and we can be healed.

I recommend you speak to your bishop about the masturbation problem - when we struggle for an extended time trying to overcome a weakness, and cannot do it on our own, then is the time to invoke the keys of the priesthood and receive help - and the bishop is the one with these keys.  In conjunction with that, learn to recognize things and places which weaken you to this temptation, recognize its onset, and learn to go elsewhere and do something else (decide ahead of time where/what these will be) as soon as temptation, or the thing which triggers temptation, starts.

For your scripture study, I recommend doing whichever of the following will work best for you (one or more):

  • Do it first, before the rest of the day has a chance to intrude, or at least have a set time that is best for you, and be consistent
  • Do it for at least 30 minutes (which can include reading, studying, pondering, and writing your thoughts), or if you don't feel like you can manage that, set another time (rather than chapter-count-based) goal and stick to that, gradually increasing the time
  • I strongly recommend having a method whereby you can record thoughts / feelings as you read (that could be paper or it could be notes in the Gospel Library app, whatever)
  • Use the method which fits your needs right now: read start to end, study a topic, study Sunday or institute lessons, pick something new every day or continue where you left off yesterday, study to answer a question... - whichever pattern works best for you

Always pray before and after you study.

In the end, everything is a question of habit - either making or breaking.  Rely on the Lord and his servants to help you.

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8 hours ago, utterlyineffable said:

Hey,

I have really bad religious OCD. When I was seeing a CBT therapist, it was a lot better (years ago),

Perhaps it would be useful to find a faith-affirming CBT therapist, once again.  Since you've gone through therapy in the past, this time around it might just involve a few sessions to "tune up" the skills you learned. 

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50 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

Perhaps it would be useful to find a faith-affirming CBT therapist, once again.

Unfortunately, that is something you can never, ever Google for.  (Trust me on this one.  Just don't even try it.  Pretend it's crystal meth; not even once.)

Ask around at both the ward and stake level.  Lots of good counselors are members.  Even if there aren't any near you, someone is likely to know of a good one who is at least not anti-Mormon.

Edited by NightSG
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40 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Unfortunately, that is something you can never, ever Google for.  (Trust me on this one.  Just don't even try it.  Pretend it's crystal meth; not even once.)

Ask around at both the ward and stake level.  Lots of good counselors are members.  Even if there aren't any near you, someone is likely to know of a good one who is at least not anti-Mormon.

Is "faith affirming CBT therapist" something you can Google?  No.  Do they exist?  Most definitely.  

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9 hours ago, utterlyineffable said:

Hey,

I have really bad religious OCD. When I was seeing a CBT therapist, it was a lot better (years ago), but it's relapsed lately and it would help to get an outside perspective to see what is religious guilt and what is OCD. Right now, I am working a job that requires a lot of mentoring and advising students, have a steady boyfriend, and am strongly involved in the church. 
 
But I also struggle a lot with a couple of things: masturbation and reading the scriptures. Every once and a while I'll slip up on the former and the latter, I'm trying to get a lot better at. Here's where the OCD comes in: I get a lot of anxiety that if I do or don't do a certain thing, then it will have eternal consequences. Like if I slip up on the first thing, then I'll think "I will never get married because of this, God is going to punish me" or "because of this, I won't be able to have the spiritual strength to guide the students in my job." Same if I miss a day of scripture study. I get so anxious that if I mess up, it will have irreversible consequences and result in loss of blessings (very specific ones, too) that I can never gain back.
 
It's getting to the point where it's everything. Listening to a song that has a bit of swearing--eternal consequences. Not being as giving and kind as I could be--eternal consequences. Skipping Sunday School because the teacher is boring--consequences. Forgetting to say a prayer before bed--consequences. But mostly the main two things mentioned above, I've just noticed it's spreading lately.
 
How do I know if these are feelings that God or the Holy Ghost are prompting or if it's just OCD? I feel really guilty for doing these things and am trying to stop, but it's hard to separate what is guilt and what is OCD. Does God revoke blessings permanently for messing up or take away the ability to do well at one's job? What can I do to deal with these thoughts?

God loves you, he wants us to be successful, wants us to overcome our demons, wants us to return to his presence. He knows what's in your heart. He knows of your desires to conquer these things. It is a terrible thing to walk through life thinking that you don't measure up, and feel guilty all of the time. I can assure that the Lord does not want this for you. He wants you to hold your head up high.

My advice on the first thing masturbation, there are 2 parts to this issue.  Part one: Since it seems that this is an ongoing problem you should see your bishop and begin the repentance process, normally I would say this is on the home repentance program but in your case it seems to be a bigger issue so see your bishop and get on the right spiritual track. God is not going to punish you, you want to stop and are going to take the correct steps to stop. He knows that it is a progression and we all have different crosses to bare. Part 2: you have been in counseling, go back. Your masterbation is not going to stop just because you see the bishop there are deeper problems, a void that you are trying to fill. You need to figure out what that is and your bishop while I am sure is a good man is not a trained therapist.

Scripture reading, there is no eternal mandate that says you must read your scriptures daily. It is recommended but no eternal consequences, same with listening to a song with a swear word, skipping a prayer, or skipping sunday school.  Disclaimer: I am not saying that you should do these things they should be avoided but everyone slips up and hell fire and brimstone are not awaiting them.

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1 hour ago, NightSG said:

Unfortunately, that is something you can never, ever Google for.  (Trust me on this one.  Just don't even try it.  Pretend it's crystal meth; not even once.)

 

Perhaps not Google--but Psychology Today has a great filter.  The following link is to therapists in Salt Lake City, UT who use CBT, and identify as Mormon:  https://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/prof_results.php?sid=1474391574.4782_18502&city=Salt+Lake+City&county=Salt+Lake&state=UT&spec=293&spec=408

 

You can filter for other locations, for other faiths, for gender, and for specific issues. 

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Try the book? Meant to be as effective as therapy. The feeling good handbook by burns. Abebooks, used bookstores, normally has a few copies. I bet your library has one.

Put several pictures of Christ in your bedroom.

Eternal consequences? Think of an evil spirit hanging around you trying to discourage you. Feel superior. You have a body -it does not! Picture the little devil getting more and more discouraged as you go about your day, smiling at passersby, saying your prayers. Have you read the ScrewTape Letters? Picture the little devil getting smaller and smaller as you read the Book of Mormon. Now he is wriggling in mortal agony! Ah prayers before dead! Now he is so small and wasted, you can crush him under your feet! Poof! One dead devil!

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/20/2016 at 6:43 PM, Sunday21 said:

Try the book? Meant to be as effective as therapy. The feeling good handbook by burns. Abebooks, used bookstores, normally has a few copies. I bet your library has one.

Put several pictures of Christ in your bedroom.

Eternal consequences? Think of an evil spirit hanging around you trying to discourage you. Feel superior. You have a body -it does not! Picture the little devil getting more and more discouraged as you go about your day, smiling at passersby, saying your prayers. Have you read the ScrewTape Letters? Picture the little devil getting smaller and smaller as you read the Book of Mormon. Now he is wriggling in mortal agony! Ah prayers before dead! Now he is so small and wasted, you can crush him under your feet! Poof! One dead devil!

That presents a picture I find funny on many levels. I should probably go figure out why my brain is spinning on the wrong axis now...

 

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  • 4 months later...
Guest LiterateParakeet
On 9/20/2016 at 10:12 AM, prisonchaplain said:

Perhaps not Google--but Psychology Today has a great filter.  The following link is to therapists in Salt Lake City, UT who use CBT, and identify as Mormon:  https://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/prof_results.php?sid=1474391574.4782_18502&city=Salt+Lake+City&county=Salt+Lake&state=UT&spec=293&spec=408

 

You can filter for other locations, for other faiths, for gender, and for specific issues. 

I agree! In addition, I would call them and see if they have experience with your  condition. I believe the term for it is Scrupulosity. (Spelling?)

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@utterlyineffable I believe you should seek (again) the help of a qualified therapist that can help you deal with your anxiety-related issues, personally (and with very little information) I think the challenges you're having based on your background are not necessarily religious in nature but due to your anxiety.

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  • 2 months later...
On 9/20/2016 at 4:30 PM, NightSG said:

Unfortunately, that is something you can never, ever Google for.  (Trust me on this one.  Just don't even try it.  Pretend it's crystal meth; not even once.)

Call me dumb, but I'm curious to know why you said that. I can see that some therapists might regard the LDS lifestyle (or indeed any religious observance) as OCD behaviour in itself, but sorely there's no danger in one wee Google...

I just Googled "CBT therapy". There are lots of links. Even NHS Choices has a page on it.

P.S. Googling "faith affirming CBT therapy" did bring up a lot of "new age" stuff, but it did also bring up the Mormon Mental Health Association (though now I've checked it out a little I suspect that "Mormon" in the title may be a little misleading).

Edited by Jamie123
Removed link to MMHA site as it may not be "Mormon" in the correct sense.
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7 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

Call me dumb, but I'm curious to know why you said that. I can see that some therapists might regard the LDS lifestyle (or indeed any religious observance) as OCD behaviour in itself, but sorely there's no danger in one wee Google...

Maybe they've improved safe search, but suffice it to say that "CBT" has an entirely different meaning to the BDSM crowd.

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On the subject of OCD-like behaviour in a religious context, I can't help recalling this passage from C.S. Lewis' "Surprised by Joy":

Quote

Like everyone else I had been told as a child that one must not only say one's prayers but think about what one was saying. Accordingly, when (at Oldie's) I came to a serious belief, I tried to put this into practice. At first it seemed plain sailing. But soon the false conscience (St. Paul's "Law," Herbert's "prattler") came into play. One had no sooner reached "Amen" than it whispered, "Yes. But are you sure you were really thinking about what you said?"; then, more subtly, "Were you, for example, thinking about it as well as you did last night?" The answer, for reasons I did not then understand, was nearly always No. "Very well," said the voice, "hadn't you, then, better try it over again?" And one obeyed; but of course with no assurance that the second attempt would be any better. To these nagging suggestions my reaction was, on the whole, the most foolish I could have adopted. I set myself a standard. No clause of my prayer was to be allowed to pass muster unless it was accompanied by what I called a "realization," by which I meant a certain vividness of the imagination and the affections. My nightly task was to produce by sheer will power a phenomenon which will power could never produce, which was so ill-defined that I could never say with absolute confidence whether it had occurred, and which, even when it did occur, was of very mediocre spiritual value. If only someone had read to me old Walter Hilton's warning that we must never in prayer strive to extort "by maistry" what God does not give! But no one did; and night after night, dizzy with desire for sleep and often in a kind of despair, I endeavored to pump up my "realizations." The thing threatened to become an infinite regress. One began of course by praying for good "realizations." But had that preliminary prayer itself been "realized"? This question I think I still had enough sense to dismiss; otherwise it might have been as difficult to begin my prayers as to end them. How it all comes back! The cold oilcloth, the quarters chiming, the night slipping past, the sickening, hopeless weariness. This was the burden from which I longed with soul and body to escape. It had already brought me to such a pass that the nightly torment projected its gloom over the whole evening, and I dreaded bedtime as if I were a chronic sufferer from insomnia. Had I pursued the same road much further I think I should have gone mad.

(The whole book is available online here: http://cnqzu.com/library/Philosophy/neoreaction/_extra authors/Lewis, C. S/C.S._Lewis-Surprised_by_Joy__The_Shape_of_My_Early_Life-Harcourt,_Brace,_Jovanovich(1966).pdf)

Oddly enough that could well have been me at age 16 (though I never read anything by Lewis (except Narnia) till I was in my 20's). For me, every last statement in a prayer had to "feel real". If for example I prayed for my mother, I would need to have a vivid picture of her in my head while I was doing so. (As if God would't know who I was talking about otherwise!)

Creating clear mental pictures isn't always easy when you're dog-tired and sleepy and I can remember taking hours over my prayers, kneeling by the bedside long into the night, desperately longing for sleep yet terrified of the fires of hell that awaited me (so I imagined) if I didn't say my prayers properly.

I also remember the delicious feeling of the last "amen" followed by soft sheets and pillows - not to mention the knowledge that I wouldn't have to go through the awful business again until the following night.

It's good to know we are not alone.

Edited by Jamie123
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  • 1 month later...

While I am not a mental health professional, I am very confident in saying that what you are experiencing is not OCD, but is actually anxiety.  The two are related as obsessions and compulsions lead to anxiety when not satisfied.

Masturbation is a sin, and sin should cause anxiety for a sincere God fearing individual.  If you are sincerely striving to repent and overcome, you do not need to be anxious when you fall, but instead contrite and persevering in continuing the repentance process, and fighting each battle.  You should definitely consult with your Bishop about the masturbation, and then proceed knowing you will not be barred from the Celestial Kingdom as long as you are actually continually trying to overcome it.

In terms of scripture study, the only anxiety you should feel should be that of the missed opportunity to gain further light and knowledge.  Those who read the scriptures to say they read them, without seeking to gain from them are not really better off than those who don't read (except that they can say to themselves that they read).  It is not a sin to not read the scriptures, it is merely a disservice to ones self.  For thousands of years people could only learn the words of the scriptures from their priesthood leaders.  You should be reading them, but should not feel anxious when you don't.

God rarely punishes his children for their mistakes.  You will never be punished because of your sins, unless you are committing them intentionally, with the desire in your heart to rebel against God.  If you were doing that, however, masturbation would be the least of your problems, I presume.  God does, however, allow natural consequences to befall those who sin, and those affected by the sin.  You do have some things to work on, but you do not need to burden yourself with crippling guilt and shame.  If a therapist is needed to help you apply these concepts, by all means, please do so.  It is also possible that you may suffer from anxiety in other aspects of your life, yet it manifests itself the most in your religious observance.  If that is the case, you could potentially be benefited by medication, which could possibly allow you to better recognize the difference between sincere repentance and unnecessary, overburdening guilt, shame, and fear.

I truly hope you can find the help you need.  Regardless, don't stop trying to live a clean and faithful life, but don't take life too seriously.  God loves you and wants you to succeed!

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Matt. 26:41 "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." You know who can strengthen our flesh, right? (Hint: it involves prayer.)

Seems to me that you recognize your temptation to masterbate, but struggle at that line between being tempted and yielding to temptation. You can't stop a bird from flying over a tree, but you can stop it from building a nest.

As far as the scripture thing goes, think of it like brushing your teeth. I'm sure there's been a night where you fell asleep without brushing or a morning you didn't have time. Does that mean you never brush again? No. Same with scriptures. 

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