Where do Mormons Believe the Garden of Eden was?

[Larry Cotrell]

“You have been both to Jerusalem and Zion, and seen both. I have not seen either, for I have never been in Jackson County. Now it is a pleasant thing to think of and to know where the Garden of Eden was. Did you ever think of it? I do not think many do, for in Jackson County was the Garden of Eden. Joseph has declared this, and I am as much bound to believe that as to believe that Joseph was a prophet of God.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, March 15, 1857

Genesis 2:10-14

A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin and onyx are also there.) The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Ashur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

I will keep my opinion out of this, but where do you all think that the Garden of Eden was?

[Just_A_Guy]

Well, it's not a requirement of Mormonism to believe that Eden was in any particular location (I know Mormons who beleive there was never a literal Garden of Eden at all).  That said, Mormonism--including Smith and Young--has traditionally read the Biblical creation account literally, placing the garden itself in or near modern-day Jackson County, Missouri; and Mormon scripture names Spring Hill, Missouri as a site where Adam lived after his expulsion from Eden; early Mormons called the place "Adam-ondi-Ahman".

It's also worth noting that early Mormons (and even many modern ones) took a literalist approach to Genesis 10:25--when the text says that in the days of Peleg "the earth was divided", many saw that as a physical separation of the land masses.  So the current physical distance between these American sites and Mesopotamia, hasn't historically given Mormons too much heartburn. 

You ask what I believe, personally?  I believe Adam was a real person, an ancestor to the entire human race, who at some point in his life passed through what is now the midwestern United States just as our scriptures say he did.  I believe he took some action--maybe eating a fruit, or maybe something else--that resulted in a) Adam's learning to distinguish good from evil, in b) the mortality of humankind, and in c) the entire earth's falling from its paradisaical state.  Where the idea of a "Garden of Eden" fits into this, and whether it was a geographical place or just a metaphor for the earth's former glory, I don't know.  If it existed I'm rather disinclined to place it in Mesopotamia--partly on the basis of Smith's and Young's statements leading me to lean towards a North American setting; and partly because I just can't make heads or tails of the geography Genesis proposes.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[zil]

In addition to JAG's excellent answer, please note all the Jerusalems in the world.  Repeated names don't mean much of anything - if we do it today, what was to stop them doing it ages ago?*  Were the current places named after the ones in the story of their first parents, or were they the actual places near where their first parents lived?  Or did a tradition develop through their efforts to try to locate where their first parents lived, and being unaware of more distant possibilities, they deduced or assumed it had to be someplace known to them?

*According to Nibley, in the culture of the Middle East, it isn't unusual for people to give their own name to a place. (After all, if no one's around, and no one's left a sign or a map behind, how is the new arrival to know the now-former name of the place?)

Hmm.  And if, for the sake of argument, the land masses were all one (until the days of Peleg), who's to say which current rivers used to all be joined into one river (system) back before they all split up?

Combine all those questions / possibilities with the fact that Eden's location is irrelevant to my eternal salvation and I'm content to just go with what Joseph Smith said and not worry about it further.

[UtahTexan]

This is just another topic people often use to dig at Mormons while most Mormons realize the topic is not important to our Salvation.  Who really cares where it was?  Does the knowledge, or lack of it, affect my daily activities?

[Larry Cotrell]

2 hours ago, UtahTexan said:

This is just another topic people often use to dig at Mormons while most Mormons realize the topic is not important to our Salvation.  Who really cares where it was?  Does the knowledge, or lack of it, affect my daily activities?

I was just curious what you all think. I agree that it isn't a very important question.

[zil]

10 minutes ago, Larry Cotrell said:

I was just curious what you all think. I agree that it isn't a very important question.

Larry, will you share what you believe too?  I've always assumed most Christians believe the Garden of Eden was in the middle east in the region of the modern Tigris and Euphrates rivers, but that was an assumption on my part.

[Larry Cotrell]

4 minutes ago, zil said:

Larry, will you share what you believe too?  I've always assumed most Christians believe the Garden of Eden was in the middle east in the region of the modern Tigris and Euphrates rivers, but that was an assumption on my part.

Yes, I believe exactly what the Genesis account says. 

Cush is believed to be in Southern Irag or Saudi Arabia. The Tigris and Euphrates run through Iraq and up to Turkey. I think that geography shifted some in the days of Peleg and also during the flood, so it's impossible to find an exact location.

However, I definitely believe that it was somewhere in what is now the Middle East, probably Iraq or Saudi Arabia.

[Jane_Doe]

47 minutes ago, Larry Cotrell said:

 

Edited September 24, 2016 by Jane_Doe

[zil]

13 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

 

Sometimes, words just get in the way.

[Blackmarch]

On September 23, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Larry Cotrell said:

“You have been both to Jerusalem and Zion, and seen both. I have not seen either, for I have never been in Jackson County. Now it is a pleasant thing to think of and to know where the Garden of Eden was. Did you ever think of it? I do not think many do, for in Jackson County was the Garden of Eden. Joseph has declared this, and I am as much bound to believe that as to believe that Joseph was a prophet of God.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, March 15, 1857

Genesis 2:10-14

A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin and onyx are also there.) The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Ashur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

I will keep my opinion out of this, but where do you all think that the Garden of Eden was?

In the north american continent.

 

[mordorbund]

Just for my own curiosity: We Latter-day Saints study the Doctrine and Covenants in Sunday School every 4 years, and the Eden account every 4 years. So every 4 years we have 2 lessons where it would be quite natural to discuss the location of the Garden of Eden.

So my question is: how often does this get discussed in your ward?

And how often does that compare with the frequency of other topics, such as Atonement, Resurrection, baptism for the dead, the First Vision, the 3 degrees of glory, eternal families, covenants, grace, etc? Is it brought up more or less than other topics that we have in common with the Christian world at large? Is it brought up more or less than other topics where we strongly differ from the Christian world at large? Is it brought up more or less than other topics that are uniquely Mormon?

[bytebear]

I never understood the notion that Eden and the Middle East must be the same place.  There was a great flood, which would have altered geography significantly, and the likelihood that Noah landed his boat on the same spot that it floated from would be quite remarkable. So, I have no problem whatsoever believing that Eden (or East of Eden) was in the Americas. 

[Vort]

Seems like our ward discusses this about every other year for a few minutes in gospel doctrine class. It is almost a non-topic, though when it is brought up, most people simply assume that the garden of Eden was located in Jackson County, MO, as the Prophet Joseph indicated. Compared with discussions of faith, atonement, baptism, following the Spirit, and so forth, the location of the garden of Eden is basically never discussed.

I go along with the line of thinking that the garden of Eden was in Jackson County. At this point in my existence, I don't see the question as particularly important. If we were to find that the garden of Eden was located in Mesopotamia, or Africa, or Antarctica, I would find that interesting and perhaps mildly troubling, but not very much so. If we were to discover that Eden did not actually even have a garden and that the whole garden story was merely a figurative representation of events, that would not particularly faze* me, either.

*But it might phase me. Gibbous, to be precise, which means I would walk around like a hunchback. Or maybe a gibbon.

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, Vort said:

 At this point in my existence, I don't see the question as particularly important. If we were to find that the garden of Eden was located in Mesopotamia, or Africa, or Antarctica, I would find that interesting and perhaps mildly troubling, but not very much so. If we were to discover that Eden did not actually even have a garden and that the whole garden story was merely a figurative representation of events, that would not particularly faze* me, either.

*But it might phase me. Gibbous, to be precise, which means I would walk around like a hunchback. Or maybe a gibbon.

But if the gibbon were phased into a gibbous then it would certainly be fazed.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Guest

[Rob Osborn]

The world that then was, was destroyed by the flood. Its thus irrelevent because the entire topography of the land was destroyed. The geology of the earth went under drastic changes. Nowhere in scripture does it define where Eden was. 

[Larry Cotrell]

2 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

Nowhere in scripture does it define where Eden was. 

Regardless of post-flood location, the Bible does define where it originally was before the flood (Genesis 2:10-14). 

 

Edited October 31, 2016 by Larry Cotrell

[Anddenex]

1 hour ago, Larry Cotrell said:

Regardless of post-flood location, the Bible does define where it originally was before the flood (Genesis 2:10-14). 

 

The Bible does not give/provide a definitive answer as to where the Garden of Eden was. It would be similar to someone saying the Book of Mormon defines where Lehi and his family landed. We can say, it does, if we had all the information necessary to pinpoint definitively where, but we haven't. We know there was a narrow strip of land, but we also know scholars of the Book of Mormon disagree as to where this narrow strip of land really is. The definitive answer you give is derived from a personal belief, not necessarily where the garden was located. As pertaining the thread, modern revelation from modern prophets the Garden of Eden was here upon the American continent.

[Larry Cotrell]

1 hour ago, Anddenex said:

The definitive answer you give is derived from a personal belief, not necessarily where the garden was located

We do know the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, although we do not know what some of the names like Pishon refer to. Are you saying that the flood completely changed everything so that the Tigris and Euphrates in the Bible is different than what is now known as the Tigris and Euphrates?

1 hour ago, Anddenex said:

It would be similar to someone saying the Book of Mormon defines where Lehi and his family landed.

It would be more like if 1 Nephi 18 said that Lehi and his family landed on a narrow strip of land and settled near the Usumacinta River. With the name of the river that corresponds to a river we know of, we would know where the story takes place

We know of two of the rivers and their location: Tigris and Euphrates.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Larry Cotrell

[Anddenex]

7 minutes ago, Larry Cotrell said:

We do know the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, although we do not know what some of the names like Pishon refer to. Are you saying that the flood completely changed everything so that the Tigris and Euphrates in the Bible is different than what is now known as the Tigris and Euphrates?

It would be more like if 1 Nephi said that Lehi and his family landed on a narrow strip of land and settled near the Usumacinta River. With the name of the river that corresponds to a river we know of, we would know where the story takes place

We know of two of the rivers and their location: Tigris and Euphrates.

As other have shared, we know that names are reused for different states, cities, rivers, etc... How sure are you that the Tigris and Euphrates river are the ones you are referring to? You can't be 100% sure, so no, you don't know the location of the rivers mentioned in the Bible. You know "of" rivers with the same name and their location, not necessarily the rivers mentioned. As previously stated, according to your theological view it was the rivers you are aware of. Correct, Pishon was one of the rivers stemming from a "main" river which came out of Eden that watered the garden, and Gihon is another one. Yet, your focus is upon two and not the main river which parted into four. The reality, you don't know either, but your current belief system leans you toward this being the place of Eden. A quick online search shows people theoretically trying to pinpoint the area, but they do not know.

We don't know what the flood changed. We know that if the continents were one and then changed that would dramatically change rivers and other landscapes. Adding a river doesn't change anything to Lehi's story. Does the Book of Mormon define where they landed. Yes it does, by describing areas that surrounded them. The name of a river is moot to the example, as we know rivers are named and places are named after each other. Even Utah is named after places where people lived, Biblical, and Book of Mormon names.

[bytebear]

Missouri and Mississippi.

[Blackmarch]

On September 24, 2016 at 8:30 AM, UtahTexan said:

This is just another topic people often use to dig at Mormons while most Mormons realize the topic is not important to our Salvation.  Who really cares where it was?  Does the knowledge, or lack of it, affect my daily activities?

Most differences are used by antagonists to dig at the church. I do not believe cotrell to be among them. For some people this sortbof stuff is important for whatever reason. For others it fills the pursuit of acedamia.