1 Nephi 14:10

[Larry Cotrell]

1 Nephi 14:10 "And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth."

My question is: how do you, as LDS, determine what is part of "the church of the Lamb of God" or of "the church of the devil"? How do you know what religions or religious sects are part of which group?

[Jane_Doe]

Simple: The Church of the of Lamb of God are those individuals which follow the Lamb of God.  The church of the devil are those individuals which follow the devil.  

This is not a matter of external religious/group label, but internal heart.  It is also not our place to Judge a person's heart.

Granted, there are faiths which have more fullness of the Gospel, and knowledge helps a person come closer to God.  For example the LDS faith has the fullness of the Gospel and is the only church authorized to baptized.  But even in the LDS faith, there are some individuals whom shame their baptism and do not follow Christ.  Conversely, there are some atheists whom have never really had the setting to learn of Christ, but are honest upright individuals whom love their fellow men-- we hope that one day they will embrace Christ.

 

Edited October 26, 2016 by Jane_Doe

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Larry Cotrell said:

1 Nephi 14:10 "And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth."

My question is: how do you, as LDS, determine what is part of "the church of the Lamb of God" or of "the church of the devil"? How do you know what religions or religious sects are part of which group?

I agree with Jane and want to add that this was a prophecy that encompassed many generations.  This particular statement, however, addressed the very end times when there will be no middle ground anymore.  Wheats and Tares will be separated.  Mormons and non-Mormons will choose the Lord's side.  Mormons and non-Mormons will side with the devil.  We as individuals make such a choice.

We can't tell currently who will be on who's side.  We can only know that about ourselves.

[askandanswer]

Larry, in general, when I want to find out how to better understand a particular verse of scripture, one of the places I look is to the scripture citation index. This can be found online at http://scriptures.byu.edu/ or downloaded as an app. This app lists when any apostle, prophet or member of the First PResidency has ever quoted to or referred to a particular verse. The way it works is that you click on the verse you found like to find out more about and then you will get a list of occasions when that verse has been used. You click on an item in the list and it will take you to the text of the instance on which that verse was used. In the case of 1 Nephi 14:10 the scripture citation index might not be all that helpful because all except one of the quotes come from the Journal of Discourses, meaning that they are all more than 140 years old, save for a few, and lots of LDS have had lots of endless arguments about how theologically pure and reliable the Journal of Discourses are. Here are two instances that I have picked at random from the scripture citation index of when church leaders or apostles have referred to 1 Nephi 14:10

J Reuben Clark, a legal scholar and former member of the First Presidency, when speaking in the April 1949 General Conference

TWO CHURCHES

The Lord has told us in the scriptures that in the last days there will be two churches  1 Ne. 14:10 John the Revelator spoke of the great church with worldly power that had under its dominion and leadership the kings of the earth—he spoke of it as Babylon, the Mother of Harlots  Rev. 17:1-6 and Nephi spoke of it as the great and abominable church  1 Ne. 14:10-17 I am not going to say what that church is, though I have a very definite and clear idea. But I want to say that those scriptures also tell us that the other church is a weak church, a church to whose assistance God has to come in order to preserve it. We certainly are not the great church, for no kings are tied to the chariot wheels of our Church. We are the other church.

 

Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, volume 18

There are only two churches on the earth—only two parties. God leads the one, the devil the other. 1 Ne. 14:10 

There are eleven instances listed for 1 Nephi 14:10 but I'll leave it to you to go and look them up at scriptures.byu.or 

 

 

 

[Anddenex]

The church of the Lamb of God are the Lord's elect who receive light and truth. There are members of the church of the Lamb of God who do not receive light and truth, but reject it, thus they would be apart of the church of the devil (unless they repent). The church of the devil is equated with "the mother of abominations." The mother of abominations are individuals, towns, cities, societies, and governments that partake daily, without repentance, of the world and its pleasures. These are those who find enjoyment in those things which God abhors/hates: sexual immorality (hetero and homo), perversions of truth, lasciviousness, idolatry, and so on. Here is a list of what the mother of abominations and her followers pleasure in:

   "1. It persecutes, tortures, and slays the Saints of God. (See 1 Ne. 13:5.)
    2. It seeks wealth and luxury. (See 1 Ne. 13:7–8.)
    3. It is characterized by sexual immorality. (See 1 Ne. 13:7.)
    4. It has excised plain and precious things from the scriptures. (See 1 Ne. 13:26–29.)
    5. It has dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people. (See 1 Ne. 14:11.)
    6. Its fate is to be consumed by a world war, when the nations it incites against the Saints war among themselves until the great and abominable church itself is destroyed. (See 1 Ne. 22:13–14.)"

In the Old Testament we are able to read how easily the mother of Harlots was able to rear its head. In the New Testament, once again, we see the mother of Abominations rear her ugly head in the martyr of the Lord's apostles and prophets. Timothy prophesies of the last days and what men and women will become lovers of. All signs that the mother of Harlots is spreading across our nation and other nations of this world. In our modern era those that martyred Joseph Smith and Hyrum and persecuted the Lord's saints were influenced by her philosophy. As for me, personally, the advocating of abortion (elective abortion) is a pure sign that the sons and daughters of God are being influenced by the church of the devil. The Book of Mormon wonderfully explains the great and spacious building in the Tree of Life vision, which depicts the church of the devil has no foundation to save the souls of men and women.

Does this mean only those who belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (baptized members) are of the church of the Lamb of God? No, for there are many "elect" who are seeking God but do not know where to find him, but are leading exceptional lives of goodness, honesty, and integrity.

[Just_A_Guy]

As a pre-exilic Jew, Nephi would have had very little frame of reference for what a "church" is or what it does.  Even in New Testament times "churches" weren't the vast transnational organizations they are today.  

To the extent that readers of the BoM read Nephi's words and start trying to correlate his "churches" to past or modern religious movements (and I realize some pretty reputable folks within Mormonism have done precisely that), I am inclined to think they may be barking up the wrong tree.  I think Nephi is talking about much broader ideological/institutional movements that aren't necessarily religious in nature, for which "church" was a poor descriptor and was used only in the absence of a better term.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest]

@Just_A_Guy I of course agree with you, and I have often thought about it pretty much the way you expressed it. If I have any correct (basic) understanding of the process of translation I perceive that the choice of "churches" was Joseph Smith's. Merely pondering aloud, I wonder what other word(s) he might have chosen?

[Blackmarch]

On October 26, 2016 at 8:54 AM, Larry Cotrell said:

1 Nephi 14:10 "And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth."

My question is: how do you, as LDS, determine what is part of "the church of the Lamb of God" or of "the church of the devil"? How do you know what religions or religious sects are part of which group?

Revelations if irecall right has a good description. By the time a group has gotten to the point where they have to destroy others is a pretty good indicator, whether physically, mentally, verbally, or morally that they are not working for christ any more.