10% Tithing, how I feel about it...


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I've always wondered where my tithing is really being used. I know it's used to build temples, churches, and such. But I'm also skeptical ever since I heard of Anti-mormon people or just people in general...talking about our church...that the church is another scam and a system trying to manipulate people in getting their money and such... I know this is not true, but part of me (like 20%) is saying it could be true, because it doesn't hurt to have an open mind!...Without tithing, it would also be hard for the church to progress in building more churches and such...

I'm also aware of the possibility of corruptions in the church, like the Roman Catholic Church, they taxed people for good reasons but I later found out that they were also using that money for corrupt reasons! 

How do you feel about tithings? 

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Well, you'd think if the leaders of our church were in it for the money and power, they'd do more traditional things like live in expensive places, take expensive vacations, wear expensive clothes, drive expensive cars, hire zoos for their grandchildren's birthdays, rooms full of strippers, etc.

Our church leaders, by accounts of those who are most closely associated with them, basically live lives of endless meetings, and travel to meetings, and meetings about meetings.  Saying the same stuff over and over and over again.  Without any hope for a lighter meeting load until old age sets in and they die.  Not exactly the glamorous lifestyle that beckons to people lusting after money and power.

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15 hours ago, curious_mormon said:

How do you feel about tithings? 

I've always paid. I always will pay it.
The blessings that come from paying tithing come from our Father in Heaven.
If my Bishop were to steal all my tithing and go play poker, the blessings between myself and our Father in Heaven remain the same.

By not paying tithing, and finding reasons/doubts not to, I'm the only one drawing the short stick in the end.

Edited by NeedleinA
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46 minutes ago, curious_mormon said:

I've always wondered where my tithing is really being used. I know it's used to build temples, churches, and such. But I'm also skeptical ever since I heard of Anti-mormon people or just people in general...talking about our church...that the church is another scam and a system trying to manipulate people in getting their money and such... I know this is not true, but part of me (like 20%) is saying it could be true, because it doesn't hurt to have an open mind!...Without tithing, it would also be hard for the church to progress in building more churches and such...

My general retort to these type "where does all the money go" questions is: the government takes a lot more money from you want probably has a lot more currption/wasteful spending.  When was the last time you looked specifically at that and did anything productive about it?

Admittedly this is probably not the most charitable response, and reflects my inner impatience with people.

Edited by Jane_Doe
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50 minutes ago, curious_mormon said:

How do you feel about tithings? 

Tithing is a wonderful principle that requires faith on the giver. Here is a short statement from the Church regarding what items tithing covers, "Tithing funds are always used for the Lord’s purposes—to build and maintain temples and meetinghouses, to sustain missionary work, to educate Church members, and to carry on the work of the Lord throughout the world." Each stake in the Church receives funds which is distributed to wards. These funds are also from tithing. Each time we send in a receipt from items purchased and then the Church reimburses us -- tithing.

Am I worried about what "Anti-Mormons" say anymore regarding the Church? No. Am I worried that the Church is using tithing for corrupt purposes? No. This is either God's Church/Gospel and God is directing the affairs or it is not. If so, then I have no worries and I pay my tithing and I don't care what it is used for. I pay and I move on. As it is God's Church and gospel I pay. I move along knowing God is directing the affairs of the church.

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2 hours ago, curious_mormon said:

How do you feel about tithings?

I think it's one of the great tangible blessings offered to us as members of God's kingdom: The opportunity to contribute a real, tangible part of our work and lives (mostly today in the form of money) to the building up of the kingdom.

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Let's assume church leaders are in it for the money.  So, to be in a position where you might get a salary or living stipend from the church, you would likely have already tithed for years, maybe decades.  Add to that, the fact that you would have likely been a bishop, stake president, ect., and spent countless hours of volunteer work.  You easily would have put far more into the system than you would ever get out.  So, if you are looking for a "get rich" scheme, Mormon leadership is probably the worst one you could choose.

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15 hours ago, curious_mormon said:

I've always wondered where my tithing is really being used. I know it's used to build temples, churches, and such. But I'm also skeptical ever since I heard of Anti-mormon people or just people in general...talking about our church...that the church is another scam and a system trying to manipulate people in getting their money and such... I know this is not true, but part of me (like 20%) is saying it could be true, because it doesn't hurt to have an open mind!...Without tithing, it would also be hard for the church to progress in building more churches and such...

I'm also aware of the possibility of corruptions in the church, like the Roman Catholic Church, they taxed people for good reasons but I later found out that they were also using that money for corrupt reasons! 

How do you feel about tithings? 

There's always a balancing act one needs to do when believing detractors.  We certainly want to have an open mind.  But that doesn't mean always believing the worst (as anti-Mormons do).  Sure, I'll listen.  But 99% of the time it's stuff I've already heard and looked into.  There isn't a whole lot that is new.  

Whenever I truly do wonder about something, I do so with a "trust but verify" attitude rather than "I'm accusing you of this!  Prove I'm wrong."  Very different.

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  • 4 months later...
On 11/15/2016 at 5:22 PM, curious_mormon said:

I've always wondered where my tithing is really being used. I know it's used to build temples, churches, and such. But I'm also skeptical ever since I heard of Anti-mormon people or just people in general...talking about our church...that the church is another scam and a system trying to manipulate people in getting their money and such... I know this is not true, but part of me (like 20%) is saying it could be true, because it doesn't hurt to have an open mind!...Without tithing, it would also be hard for the church to progress in building more churches and such...

I'm also aware of the possibility of corruptions in the church, like the Roman Catholic Church, they taxed people for good reasons but I later found out that they were also using that money for corrupt reasons! 

How do you feel about tithings? 

I have always paid tithing.  I will always pay tithing.  Tithing is 10%, if someone pays less than 10% they are giving an offering (which is still good) but are not paying tithing. The word tithing inherently represents 10%.

It is definitely true that church funds have in the past been used illegitimately.  There have been local bishops and others who have taken the funds, but who have been dealt with according to the appropriate disciplinary action.  There was even a time when the U.S. government confiscated church owned property paid for by tithing.  However, while individuals may corrupt the use of tithing, the church and it's leadership as a whole uses and allocates the funds with the guidance of the spirit in order to help the church achieve the objectives of the Lord.

The Church is currently estimated to have between 80-100 billion USD in total assets worldwide.  Many people scoff at this because there are members living in extreme poverty who still pay tithing yet the church has great funds and in theory could help them by re-distributing the funds in a different manner.  However, this is an area where members must exercise faith.  Tithing is not really about money, it is about trusting in the Lord.

That being said $80-100 billion is not even close to what the church needs in the long run.  Consider this:  The Church teaches that the literal location of Zion, The New Jerusalem, will be in Jackson County, MO.  If one were to take this literally then at some point the church would need to be able to take complete ownership, whether gradually or all at once. I recently did the calculation of what the cost would be to purchase all residential homes in Jackson County, MO at current market value.  The estimated cost came to roughly $46 billion.  That is only residential homes, not businesses or other types of property.    I am not saying that this is what will happen exactly, but the Church does not have anywhere close to enough resources if this were to be the Lord's plan.

I will continue paying my tithing because I trust in the general leadership of the church to allocate the funds appropriately with the guidance of the spirit.  However, each of us must pray to receive the answer on our own.

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The problem many Saints have with tithing is that they think of tithing funds as "their tithing". It's not theirs. It's God's. God has organized his kingdom in such a way that the use of tithing is overseen by various Church officials, and its disbursement is controlled by the Council on the Disposition of the Tithes. It is utterly irrelevant whether these funds are used to feed African orphans, build a shopping mall, or send a dishonest bishop to live in Brazil for the rest of his life. That is God's problem, not ours. Our only concern is to provide to God's kingdom the amount he has told us to give, which is a tenth of our increase annually. No other consideration matters. No other donations, however worthy, matter. If we give 10% of our interest annually to fund an inner-city homeless shelter, that's wonderful -- but it is not tithing.

Edited by Vort
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Guest MormonGator
9 minutes ago, Vort said:

 or send a dishonest bishop to live in Brazil for the rest of his life. 

Says @Vort, broadcasting from his house in Antartica after being oddly and quietly removed from his position in the quorum of the seventy.  

Edited by MormonGator
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14 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Obviously you don't mean that no other donations matter. You mean they don't count as tithing. They certainly matter. :)

Indeed you are correct. I thought my wording was sufficient to give context to my statement.

27 minutes ago, Vort said:

Our only concern is to provide to God's kingdom the amount he has told us to give, which is a tenth of our increase annually. No other consideration matters. No other donations, however worthy, matter. If we give 10% of our interest annually to fund an inner-city homeless shelter, that's wonderful -- but it is not tithing.

Other donations do not "count" -- that is, do not matter -- when calculating one's tithing. That's all I meant.

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1 minute ago, Vort said:

I thought my wording was sufficient to give context to my statement.

You'd think it would. And, based on my assumption, it did indeed (to me at least). However, I find that "you'd think" is becoming less and less common. ;) 

My initial thought, incidentally, was, "What about fast offerings?"...so I did have to think about it a bit to figure out the context.

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58 minutes ago, lds_person_0 said:

Consider this:  The Church teaches that the literal location of Zion, The New Jerusalem, will be in Jackson County, MO.  If one were to take this literally then at some point the church would need to be able to take complete ownership, whether gradually or all at once. I recently did the calculation of what the cost would be to purchase all residential homes in Jackson County, MO at current market value.  The estimated cost came to roughly $46 billion.  That is only residential homes, not businesses or other types of property.

What has happened historically is that when the Saints need to move to a new area, the Lord provide employment opportunities for us to move there as individual households.  But there is such an influx of people that there aren't initially enough churches to take us.

To buy all the homes in Jackson County will be done by individual families.  The Church organization itself need only pay for the actual church owned facilities.

So, in the end, we live the Law of Consecration.  If you take the net worth of the entire membership of the church, it would be over $1 Trillion.  It will be enough to buy the homes and the commercial facilities as well.

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17 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

What has happened historically is that when the Saints need to move to a new area, the Lord provide employment opportunities for us to move there as individual households.  But there is such an influx of people that there aren't initially enough churches to take us.

To buy all the homes in Jackson County will be done by individual families.  The Church organization itself need only pay for the actual church owned facilities.

So, in the end, we live the Law of Consecration.  If you take the net worth of the entire membership of the church, it would be over $1 Trillion.  It will be enough to buy the homes and the commercial facilities as well.

I agree with you.  The real point behind my statement was to give a possible reason behind why I am not concerned about the significant assets and liquid funds of the church and that I have full confidence they will be used appropriately at the right place and time for the building of the kingdom.  That being said, there will likely be many righteous poor who will be called to Zion that will be subsidized by the funds/resources of the church.  For example, in my home town the church owns a residential home next door and in the past occasionally used it to provide temporary housing to impoverished member families.

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On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 11:20 PM, bytebear said:

Let's assume church leaders are in it for the money.  So, to be in a position where you might get a salary or living stipend from the church, you would likely have already tithed for years, maybe decades.  Add to that, the fact that you would have likely been a bishop, stake president, ect., and spent countless hours of volunteer work.  You easily would have put far more into the system than you would ever get out.  So, if you are looking for a "get rich" scheme, Mormon leadership is probably the worst one you could choose.

This is an interesting thing to follow and one which I have looked at in the past to see what a solution would be.  Let's take a worse case scenario (not stating this is the case, this is a let's pretend instance).  Let's say it IS a scam and everyone is in it for the money in the leadership.  Afterall, almost no one get's an income of 120K or more a year when they are in their 80s doing what General Authorities do, at least typically.  No one has the benefits they get these days either for the most part.  At best, if they were wealthy, they are living off investments in old age rather than being paid by an organization.  What happens if it IS a scam?

Let's look at the New Testament.  The Church of Christ did not start until AFTER his death and was initially led by the apostles.  Prior to this, the Lord in his mortal life was subject to the laws of the religion as imposed by his church.  He may have noticed hypocrisy, taught where they could not, but he always recognized who the authority was (his Father, and those who were under him).  At that time, the Jews were THE CHOSEN PEOPLE.  It did not suddenly go away because there was corruption at the top.  It did not suddenly disappear because those in the high positions were basically abusing the system.  If Zachariah was still alive, the Lord would have gone to him to be Baptised as he had he authority, even in the middle of Jerusalem and the corruption that dwelt there.  As it was, the son and holder of that authority was not in Jerusalem at the time, but recognizing the authority, the Lord was baptized by John the Baptist.  The Lord cricized many practices that were not scriptural but still imposed upon the people by the religious leaders, but he also showed deference while in his mortal ministry to their authority.  At that time, even though he was the Lord, he still recognized the chosen people and their leaders and it's religion.

What does that mean to me.  EVEN if the leaders of the church are the most wicked, the church is STILL the chosen vessel of the Lord on this Earth.  This was true in the time of the Judges of Israel, this was true in the time of Samuel (and part of the reason Samuel became prophet was due to the corruption of the sons of the leader before Samuel, but even after them the true church remained), this was true during the House of David (even with all the wickedness that ensued, the Jews were still the Chosen people, and their religion and religious leaders still the church of the Lord, even if the kings were inspiring people to do therwise), this was true during the time of the Macabees.

Thus, it does not matter to me what is occurring, that does not change what the church is or it's purpose. 

Now, that said about the pretend situation, let's talk about the reality of today.  The history of the usage of tithing and the paying of General Authorities is not what I really want to go in depth here (probably because I'm supposed to be doing some research right now and instead am goofing off writing this which is probably not particularly good, means I may be working later tonight and won't get off till around 7 or later...so I need to make this shorter than a good examination of the topic would be).  It probably would surprise MANY people about who was paid during the early days of the church and how General Authorities got funds at times.  However, what many have problems with these days is that the church no longer discloses it's funds and how it spends them.  Part of this some attribute to financial problems that arose in the first half of the twentieth century and continued to the mid-twentieth century.  Some of these problems, when known by the General membership caused undue alarm and difficulties that should not have existed...hence the current situation.

For some, this means there is a lack of transparency in what the tithing funds are being spent on.  The problems arise because people feel that they should know what "their" money is spent on, rather than realize it is the Lord's money.  Tithing is NOT unique to the LDS church.  A good answer of why we pay tithing can be found from what I believe is a NON-LDS site here

Tithe: What the Bible Says

I'd like to go more in depth, but as I said, time is not my ally right now.  In a nutshell, tithing was originally given to support the priests.  It was still a way to support the ministry and those who worked for the Lord as per the New Testament.  It never says that those servants of the Lord would give us an accounting of everything that it was spent on.  In truth, the Bible itself doesn't really say they couldn't spend it on huge houses and Lamborghini's if they wanted to (but I think overall, it would be implied they'd do something better with the tithing). 

The LDS take is that the tithing is spent to build the Kingdom of the Lord on this Earth.  How that is done is really up to those who are the appointed servants of the Lord to administer over those funds in our church.  It is their best judgment.  Tithing is not ours to say what to do with, but the Lords, and his servants use their judgement on how to best utilize it.  If it is to build a large shopping mall because they feel that builds the kingdom up the best in showing the church to the outside world and building up the economic base of the Church, then so be it.  If they feel it is to build a firm economic foundation as well as a place for food and welfare in case of terrible things happening such as making a ranch...then that is their guidance.  If it is to build themselves homes that they can live comfortably in, well, then at least it is fulfilling the first commandment in regards to tithing found in the Old testament that tithing be used to support the priests (and in this case, the head high priests of our religion).  It isn't really our place to dictate to them what the Lord's money is to be spent on.

It is something that they themselves are accountable for before the Lord, and in that way, just like the tithes and how they were used were between the Levite Priests and the Lord in the Olden times, the way the tithes are spent today are between our High Priests that lead the church and the Lord today.

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