Requirements for baptism

[ztodd]

I haven't been on the forum in a long while, at least since it went to mormonhub.com. Hello all old and new people.

In order for a person to be baptized, the church has made a requirement that the person sustain the current living prophet.  It's a little unclear as to whether that is still a specific requirement.  What does everyone think of this requirement?  There are some who feel that this should not be a requirement for a person to be baptized.  I personally am fine with it being a requirement - it makes sense to me - but I wonder if it ultimately up to the missionary doing the interview, or the mission president, or the person being baptized?

The Preach My Gospel manual, in chapter 12, lists some requirements, under "Qualifications for Baptism"-- but does not have sustaining the living Prophet specifically listed there... however, it has a "Baptismal Interview Questions" section a little after that, which shows the candidate for baptism is specifically asked "Do you believe that [current Church President] is a prophet of God? What does this mean to you?"

A little before that, it says that "If a candidate does not qualify according to the baptismal interview questions, the baptism and confirmation should be postponed."  But it's still not clear to me if that means that the person has to answer all the interview questions 100% the right way, or if not, if there is still room for the Spirit to guide the person and the interviewing missionary in making the determination in whether they should be baptized.

[bytebear]

Well, first I look at the Topical Guide because it's awesome.  But two things are repeated quite a bit.  Believe/faith which I think includes a testimony of the restored Gospel.  and second, a willingness to enter the body of believers, which applies specifically to the restored Gospel.  One can be baptized by any number of churches, but the covenant we believe in, includes a dedication and faith in the restored gospel, and the priesthood keys that we claim.  So, having a belief in the current prophet is a faith that he has the keys of authority and that this is the true Church of Christ.. 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/baptism-qualifications-for?lang=eng

Baptism, Qualifications for

• Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: Matt. 3:8 . ( Luke 3:7–8 . )
• baptized … in the river … confessing: Mark 1:5 .
• He that believeth and is baptized: Mark 16:16 .
• Repent, and be baptized: Acts 2:38 .
• they that gladly received his word were baptized: Acts 2:41 .
• If thou believest with all thine heart: Acts 8:37 .
• Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ: Acts 16:31 .
• the baptism of repentance: Acts 19:4 .

• be baptized … having perfect faith: 2 Ne. 9:23 .
• witnesseth … he would be obedient: 2 Ne. 31:7 .
• witness … ye have entered into a covenant: Mosiah 18:10 .
• baptized as a witness … willing to serve God: Mosiah 21:35 .
• whosoever is baptized … shall believe in my name: Mosiah 26:22 .
• who repented of their sins: Alma 6:2 .
• must repent, and be born again: Alma 7:14 .
• as many as did believe were baptized: Alma 19:35 .
• whoso repenteth … and desireth to be baptized: 3 Ne. 11:23 .
• become as a little child: 3 Ne. 11:38 .
• See that ye are not baptized unworthily: Morm. 9:29 .
• came forth with a broken heart and a contrite spirit: Moro. 6:2 .
• took upon them the name of Christ, having a determination to serve: Moro. 6:3 .

• who humble themselves … and desire to be baptized: D&C 20:37 .
• arrived unto the years of accountability: D&C 20:71 .
• children shall be baptized … when eight years old: D&C 68:27 .
• received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name: D&C 76:51 .

• all men … must repent: Moses 6:57 .

[An Investigator]

This was one of my questions when I got baptised in April.   I don't have a problem with it.  In my interview I said that as a former Catholic I thought the Pope spoke for God but then I realised that he didn't,  I find that having a prophet on the earth to guide us comforting.     I don't think there is much room with the questions though, they are pretty similar to the recommend questions and that's because it's the standard you should be at to get baptised. 

[ztodd]

On 11/20/2016 at 11:27 PM, An Investigator said:

This was one of my questions when I got baptised in April.   I don't have a problem with it.  In my interview I said that as a former Catholic I thought the Pope spoke for God but then I realised that he didn't,  I find that having a prophet on the earth to guide us comforting.     I don't think there is much room with the questions though, they are pretty similar to the recommend questions and that's because it's the standard you should be at to get baptised. 

To clarify, are you saying the standards should be the same for getting baptized, as it is for entering the temple?

[An Investigator]

I think that's the idea with the questions,  they really push you to go as soon as possible after baptism to do baptisms at the Temple.  studies have shown it helps with convert retention.   I have a one year limited use recommend for baptisms only. 

[An Investigator]

I don't mean spiritual standards obviously people doing their endowments will be more spiritually mature then people being baptised.  I mean tithing,  wow etc.. 

[Jane_Doe]

1 hour ago, ztodd said:

To clarify, are you saying the standards should be the same for getting baptized, as it is for entering the temple?

The questions for baptism and the temple are similar, but not identical.  Rather, it would be better to say that they are questions  on the same road, but on different spots down the road.  For example, as baptism a person commits to keep the WoW.  For the temple they ask "have you kept the WoW", as that person promised at baptism.  

And no, a person should not be baptized if they don't answer the baptismal questions correctly.  Rather, baptism should be postponed until they are ready.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Jane_Doe

[CV75]

On 11/20/2016 at 9:52 PM, ztodd said:

I haven't been on the forum in a long while, at least since it went to mormonhub.com. Hello all old and new people.

In order for a person to be baptized, the church has made a requirement that the person sustain the current living prophet.  It's a little unclear as to whether that is still a specific requirement.  What does everyone think of this requirement?  There are some who feel that this should not be a requirement for a person to be baptized.  I personally am fine with it being a requirement - it makes sense to me - but I wonder if it ultimately up to the missionary doing the interview, or the mission president, or the person being baptized?

The Preach My Gospel manual, in chapter 12, lists some requirements, under "Qualifications for Baptism"-- but does not have sustaining the living Prophet specifically listed there... however, it has a "Baptismal Interview Questions" section a little after that, which shows the candidate for baptism is specifically asked "Do you believe that [current Church President] is a prophet of God? What does this mean to you?"

A little before that, it says that "If a candidate does not qualify according to the baptismal interview questions, the baptism and confirmation should be postponed."  But it's still not clear to me if that means that the person has to answer all the interview questions 100% the right way, or if not, if there is still room for the Spirit to guide the person and the interviewing missionary in making the determination in whether they should be baptized.

I believe this question is in line with 3 Nephi 12:1, when the Lord established His church among the Nephites: “Blessed are ye if ye shall give heed unto the words of these twelve whom I have chosen from among you to minister unto you, and to be your servants; and unto them I have given power that they may baptize you with water; and after that ye are baptized with water, behold, I will baptize you with fire and with the Holy Ghost; therefore blessed are ye if ye shall believe in me and be baptized, after that ye have seen me and know that I am.”

This is part of the doctrine of Christ that is explained in the previous chapter, where He gives the disciples authority to baptize. If we don’t sustain their authority, there is no legitimate belief, in the Church’s eyes, to get baptized. In chapters 16 and 20 He reiterates the role of the watchmen, and the need of the faithful to hearken to them.

I recommend reading all of Christ's visit to the Nephites, and the relationship between Him, His servants the twelve disciples, and the members of the church.

[zil]

3 hours ago, CV75 said:

This is part of the doctrine of Christ that is explained in the previous chapter, where He gives the disciples authority to baptize. If we don’t sustain their authority, there is no legitimate belief, in the Church’s eyes, to get baptized. In chapters 16 and 20 He reiterates the role of the watchmen, and the need of the faithful to hearken to them.

Yes.  If you reject / doubt / whatever the Prophet, you reject / doubt / whatever the authority by which your own baptism is performed (in other words, you're rejecting the validity of the very act in which you are engaging).

To me, the question seems logical - if you don't support the leadership of an organization, why join the organization? (And baptism is not only for the remission of sins, it is also for becoming a member of the Church by covenant.)

Edited November 25, 2016 by zil