Groundhog day when it comes to church

[Newbutoldmember]

 

Backstory my wife and I have become active again after being away from the church for a very long time. While I was born into the church my wife was a convert so after being inactive for so long she is not picking up where we left off as quickly as I am. 

I kind of feel like I am stuck in a loop when it comes to certain parts of church activities and was curious as to your opinions about it.  Everyone here always has such great advice.

My wife and I are both members however when my son turned we were 8 we were inactive. Therefore my son was not baptized until he was 12 and is considered a convert even though both parents are members. He took the missionary lessons and was baptized about two months ago. However the missionary lessons never stopped. I understand new member lessons and the reason behind them but my son is just 12 and he doesn't need to worry about not feeling welcome in the ward or an outsider who becomes inactive after baptism etc like an adult convert might. He is a deacon now and really enjoys attending every single function. Every week though the missionaries schedule an appointment for the next week. My son doesn't even say a word during these "lessons" and sometimes isn't even present as he is off doing homework etc. My personal opinion is that I think the missionaries don't have other appointments lined up and or are bored. We would be happy to have them over for dinner sometimes but can I tell them we are good and they can stop coming now every week or would that be considered rude?

My other "concern" is when we started attending church again we were put in the Gospel Principles class.  That is fine and all as the content is excellent and it is usually just an informal discussion that takes place anyways. The reason for this being is my wife and I are the only people in the class. There is the teacher and us. Maybe another person shows up once a month. If that often. Also the missionaries (the ones who come to my house every week) sometimes stop in for 15 minutes before having to leave for some meeting or the like. 

We live in a large ward and most people attend the gospel doctrine class. I feel like if we attended that class my wife would feel more part of the ward family if that makes sense? Right now our "church" life seems very isolated and revolves around 6 people. The Bishop, ward mission leader and his wife, two missionaries and her visiting teacher.  

Should I do something about the above or just let it be? What can I do to help my wife become more "into" church? She has no LDS friends and does not enjoy relief society. 

[Guest]

First question, do you and your wife need the introductory principles from Gospel Essentials?

 If so, just endure it for a bit and you'll eventually move on.

If not, then I'd talk to the bishop and let him know how you feel.  I believe that making the point that you'd really like to integrate into the ward is a valid one.  But get the Bishop's buy in on it and all is well.

Second question, if your ward is really that large, then why aren't there more ward/stake missionaries?  Do they not attend?  They should.

 

[Guest MormonGator]

30 minutes ago, Newbutoldmember said:

 

Backstory my wife and I have become active again after being away from the church for a very long time. While I was born into the church my wife was a convert so after being inactive for so long she is not picking up where we left off as quickly as I am. 

I kind of feel like I am stuck in a loop when it comes to certain parts of church activities and was curious as to your opinions about it.  Everyone here always has such great advice.

My wife and I are both members however when my son turned we were 8 we were inactive. Therefore my son was not baptized until he was 12 and is considered a convert even though both parents are members. He took the missionary lessons and was baptized about two months ago. However the missionary lessons never stopped. I understand new member lessons and the reason behind them but my son is just 12 and he doesn't need to worry about not feeling welcome in the ward or an outsider who becomes inactive after baptism etc like an adult convert might. He is a deacon now and really enjoys attending every single function. Every week though the missionaries schedule an appointment for the next week. My son doesn't even say a word during these "lessons" and sometimes isn't even present as he is off doing homework etc. My personal opinion is that I think the missionaries don't have other appointments lined up and or are bored. We would be happy to have them over for dinner sometimes but can I tell them we are good and they can stop coming now every week or would that be considered rude?

My other "concern" is when we started attending church again we were put in the Gospel Principles class.  That is fine and all as the content is excellent and it is usually just an informal discussion that takes place anyways. The reason for this being is my wife and I are the only people in the class. There is the teacher and us. Maybe another person shows up once a month. If that often. Also the missionaries (the ones who come to my house every week) sometimes stop in for 15 minutes before having to leave for some meeting or the like. 

We live in a large ward and most people attend the gospel doctrine class. I feel like if we attended that class my wife would feel more part of the ward family if that makes sense? Right now our "church" life seems very isolated and revolves around 6 people. The Bishop, ward mission leader and his wife, two missionaries and her visiting teacher.  

Should I do something about the above or just let it be? What can I do to help my wife become more "into" church? She has no LDS friends and does not enjoy relief society. 

Wow. My heart goes out to you. I think many people feel the same way but they don't want to express it because others wrongly think it's an attack on the church or worse, they blame you for some reason without addressing the bigger issue. One-this is not your fault and you are not alone. 

The introductory class is a boring as it can be, in particular if you grew up with Christian principles. I get why it's needed but there should be a way to test out of it. Especially if you've read the manuals.  Often times during it I'd try to interject and participate but eventually I'd find myself just reading scripture on my Kindle. No apologies. 

I admire you for staying the three hours. I know people who eventually stop going after hour one because they feel the exact same way as you do. 

Stay strong bro. 

[Newbutoldmember]

Answer 1. I am thinking that Gospel Essentials is just the older name for Gospel Principals but if I am incorrect and it is a whole other class please let me know. I believe that most people in our ward attend a class called Gospel Doctrine? I could not tell you anything about the differences between the two classes and how they may differ? I can tell you that I personally feel comfortable with the information as presented. I read the scriptures, study what I can, graduated from seminary (a billion years ago though) have recently become an elder. That said my wife is basically starting over and I would attend whatever class she attends. 

Answer 2. Yes i feel its a big ward. I don't know the exact headcount but we end up having lots of people go into the cultural hall overflow every Sunday. The ward mission leader is also the teacher of the sunday school class that we attend. He has stated that there are ward missionaries (one is in the elders quorum presidency and my home teacher as well and the other person I don't know) I just assume they are in other meetings/classes? We also have stake missionaries but they are probably attending in another ward?

[zil]

1) The class is "Gospel Essentials", the book is "Gospel Principles".  It's been that way since at least the early 1990s.  Either way, same class.  Yes, adults who don't have a calling which requires them to be elsewhere are expected to be in the "Gospel Doctrine" class.  The primary difference is that the people in Gospel Doctrine are assumed to know everything taught in Gospel Essentials (at a minimum).

I agree with previous advice.  If you (or your wife) need the Gospel Essentials class, tough it out (sometimes, we need to sacrifice in order to obtain higher blessings).  But if you feel confident that you both have learned what's in the Gospel Principles manual, then pray about what you should do, and discuss your options with the bishop.  I know at least one new member who switched to Gospel Doctrine before finishing the Gospel Essentials class, so it's not set in stone.  I would discuss this and the continuing missionary visits and try to come up with a custom plan you all feel will best help you back to full activity and fellowship with your ward.

[NightSG]

48 minutes ago, zil said:

The primary difference is that the people in Gospel Doctrine are assumed to know everything taught in Gospel Essentials (at a minimum).

But we all know what assuming does.  Quote the GP book at some lifelong members and you'll be accused of making it up.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Newbutoldmember said:

Answer 1. I am thinking that Gospel Essentials is just the older name for Gospel Principals but if I am incorrect and it is a whole other class please let me know. I believe that most people in our ward attend a class called Gospel Doctrine? I could not tell you anything about the differences between the two classes and how they may differ? I can tell you that I personally feel comfortable with the information as presented. I read the scriptures, study what I can, graduated from seminary (a billion years ago though) have recently become an elder. That said my wife is basically starting over and I would attend whatever class she attends. 

Answer 2. Yes i feel its a big ward. I don't know the exact headcount but we end up having lots of people go into the cultural hall overflow every Sunday. The ward mission leader is also the teacher of the sunday school class that we attend. He has stated that there are ward missionaries (one is in the elders quorum presidency and my home teacher as well and the other person I don't know) I just assume they are in other meetings/classes? We also have stake missionaries but they are probably attending in another ward?

The official name of the class is "Gospel Essentials".  Some people call it "Gospel Principles" because that's the name of the manual -- and they don't know any better.  But don't worry.  A LOT OF PEOPLE do that.  Gospel Essentials is a class to cover the basics, i.e. the chapters of the manual that gets you all the basic principles, doctrines, beliefs, etc.  Once you're done with that (usually 6 months) then you go to Gospel Doctrine which is the main adult Sunday School class.

So, if your wife is "basically starting over" that's probably the right place for her.

I've never heard of a ward missionary who also has a leadership position like that before.  But technically he should be attending the Gospel Essentials class if there are any new students in it as you and your wife are unless there is some other responsibility taking him away.

[Jane_Doe]

3 hours ago, Newbutoldmember said:

My wife and I are both members however when my son turned we were 8 we were inactive. Therefore my son was not baptized until he was 12 and is considered a convert even though both parents are members. He took the missionary lessons and was baptized about two months ago. However the missionary lessons never stopped. I understand new member lessons and the reason behind them but my son is just 12 and he doesn't need to worry about not feeling welcome in the ward or an outsider who becomes inactive after baptism etc like an adult convert might. He is a deacon now and really enjoys attending every single function. Every week though the missionaries schedule an appointment for the next week. My son doesn't even say a word during these "lessons" and sometimes isn't even present as he is off doing homework etc. My personal opinion is that I think the missionaries don't have other appointments lined up and or are bored. We would be happy to have them over for dinner sometimes but can I tell them we are good and they can stop coming now every week or would that be considered rude?

Why don't you just ask the missionaries about it?  It's not rude to be honest.   

3 hours ago, Newbutoldmember said:

My other "concern" is when we started attending church again we were put in the Gospel Principles class.  That is fine and all as the content is excellent and it is usually just an informal discussion that takes place anyways. The reason for this being is my wife and I are the only people in the class. There is the teacher and us. Maybe another person shows up once a month. If that often. Also the missionaries (the ones who come to my house every week) sometimes stop in for 15 minutes before having to leave for some meeting or the like. 

We live in a large ward and most people attend the gospel doctrine class. I feel like if we attended that class my wife would feel more part of the ward family if that makes sense? Right now our "church" life seems very isolated and revolves around 6 people. The Bishop, ward mission leader and his wife, two missionaries and her visiting teacher.  

Should I do something about the above or just let it be? What can I do to help my wife become more "into" church? She has no LDS friends and does not enjoy relief society. 

Speak to the teachers: they're get more people in and you can get to know them.  I would be happy to attend Gospel Principles/Essentials for that purpose.  Usually the full-time and ward missionaries are there, plus a couple of other people.  Your concern is VALID!  Say something!

Also, attending ward activities is a good way to get to know people.  Inviting people over for dinner is another good informal way to become friends.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Jane_Doe

[Iggy]

The name of the class is Gospel Principles and the manual is of the same name. Gospel Essentials was replaced in 1994. Please see my documentation w/links below.

 

Quote

 

Taken from lds.org online store description.

Gospel Fundamentals

This manual is primarily for those who live in areas where the Church is relatively new or where scriptures have not been translated into their language. It may also be useful to other members. It provides a more basic outline of doctrines and principles than the Gospel Principles manual. It may be used as a personal study guide, for family home evenings, and for classroom instruction.

Gospel Principles

This book provides an overview of gospel principles. It was revised in 2009. It is used for personal study and for the Gospel Principles class during Sunday School. In 2010 and 2011 it will be used for Melchizedek Priesthood and Relief Society instruction on the second and third Sundays of each month.

 

Quote

 

Gospel Essentials

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1981/03/news-of-the-church?lang=eng 

·  March 1981 ·  News of the Church

New Curriculum Year and Interim Lesson Materials. The First Presidency announced in a letter dated 30 September 1980 that the Church curriculum year would be unified worldwide to coincide with the calendar year beginning 1 January 1982. This change has prompted the following questions.

1. Who will be affected by this change? Wards and branches whose present curriculum year ends 31 August 1981.

2. What materials will be used during the interim period from 1 September to 31 December 1981 and how can they be ordered? Primaries will continue to use the lesson materials outlined for the Sunday meeting schedule. No adjustments are necessary now. Instructions for lessons to be taught during the interim period will be listed on the distribution center preprinted order forms that will be sent to all wards and branches in February and March 1981. All Sunday School classes, both adult and youth, will use Gospel Essentials (PCMP36C7) as the teacher’s manual and Gospel Principles (PBIC0245) as the student manual. Class members will use Gospel Principles extensively to supplement the Gospel Essentials lessons. This instructional approach will provide an excellent opportunity for parents and children to study the basic gospel principles together at home and at Sunday School.

 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1994/10/news-of-the-church?lang=eng

·  October 1994 ·  News of the Church

New Church Curriculum Materials Now Available

The Church produces curriculum materials for families and Church units all over the world. The curriculum, which consists of three phases, is simple, flexible, and designed to accommodate members in all economic, educational, and cultural circumstances. New curriculum materials and instructions on how they are to be used are available for the 1995 calendar year.

The Church publishes curriculum materials to help members learn and live the gospel; the scriptures and words of the living prophets are the foundation of the curriculum.

The home is the center for gospel learning and living. All members are encouraged to have the scriptures and the words of the living prophets in their homes. In addition, the following basic materials are available for supplemental use in individual and family study.

—Gospel Fundamentals (for use in non-English-speaking areas where the Church has only recently been introduced)

—Gospel Principles manual

—Church magazines

—Family Guidebook

—Gospel Art Picture Kit

—Scripture readers

—For the Strength of Youth

—Hymns, 1985

—Children’s Songbook

—Family Home Evening Resource Book

—Truth Restored

—A Parent’s Guide

The curriculum for use in any particular Church unit is based on that unit’s needs and the availability of materials in each language.

Phase 1 curriculum is used where the Church has only recently been introduced. Materials used in phase 1 include Gospel Fundamentals, The Prophet Joseph Smith’s Testimony (a pamphlet), the scriptures, and messages of the First Presidency. These materials are made available as they are translated.

In this phase, children under twelve years of age meet together for gospel instruction. Youth and adult members meet together in gospel instruction classes. For priesthood and women’s meetings, the brethren and sisters separate to conduct priesthood business, discuss their duties, and plan activities, including service they can provide.

Phase 2 curriculum is used in areas where the Church is still new to the area or in areas where the Church has only recently begun translating materials into a new language. In areas using phase 2 curriculum, units are large enough to divide members into classes for gospel instruction. Phase 2 curriculum may also be used where the Church is well established if that better meets local needs.

 

Newbutoldmember ~ I was inactive for 30 years, and when I came back my Branch President and I decided that my going to the Gospel Principles class would bring me up  to speed. He wanted me to attend Gospel Doctrine class also, so the Senior Missionary couple that was assigned to our Branch, taught me on Wednesday afternoon at the Meetinghouse. Wed & Thurs were my day off, and I went to work 2 hours after the end of the block on Sundays so I was able to attend church. The class was to be for 45 minutes, more often than not it lasted 2+ hours!!

Why don't you talk to the Gospel Principles Teacher and the Bishopric Councilor over Sunday School to see if you and your wife could be taught on a different day. In our Branch now (17 yrs later) the class is taught by the Branch Mission Leader, his wife AND the assigned Missionaries.

[Guest]

My brother has been out of the church for about 3 years now. It was amazing to me how quickly he has forgotten or even re-invented what he was taught his whole life. To me it's a good idea that a reactivated person go through the however-many-weeks Gospel Essentials class. Faramir and I went together when he was a ward missionary, and I enjoyed going back to basics for awhile. I think we can always find something new to learn. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Iggy said:

The name of the class is Gospel Principles and the manual is of the same name. Gospel Essentials was replaced in 1994. Please see my documentation w/links below.

...

Hmmm.  I was not aware.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

My brother has been out of the church for about 3 years now. It was amazing to me how quickly he has forgotten or even re-invented what he was taught his whole life. To me it's a good idea that a reactivated person go through the however-many-weeks Gospel Essentials class. Faramir and I went together when he was a ward missionary, and I enjoyed going back to basics for awhile. I think we can always find something new to learn. 

Brothers and Sisters, Ladies & Gentlemen, Boys and Girls of All ages, 

Eowyn is Back!!!

[Jane_Doe]

10 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Hmmm.  I was not aware.

Same here.  I've always just used them intercqhangingably.  Didn't know I was mistaken.

[Guest MormonGator]

6 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

 Eowyn is Back!!!

and she's been missed! Welcome back!! 

[Guest]

Thanks guys!

[mirkwood]

There have been times where I prefer Essentials to Doctrine.  Right now I don't have the choice since I teach the 10 year olds. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, mirkwood said:

There have been times where I prefer Essentials to Doctrine.  Right now I don't have the choice since I teach the 10 year olds. 

You always get the "survival" callings.

[Newbutoldmember]

 

I am sorry this is so long.

Thank you everyone for your replies so far. They have been very helpful. Unfortunately the ongoing never ending missionary lessons situation, or my first issue, kind of blew up and went the wrong way last night.

They came 20 minutes late. That's fine they are on bikes and cover 5 wards. I fully understand. I am just setting the timetable for the night. It then took ten minutes or so for them to catch their breath and make small talk. So when we started the appointment it was already half over since they had another appointment right after. 

There was our old missionary and a brand new one we had never met. I guess they had gotten new assignments last week. Our old missionary who came has only been out in the field a few months and the new missionary we had never met before last night is done with his mission in two months. 

This is how it went. So Elders what is on the agenda this evening since we completed lesson 5 of the new member lessons several weeks ago? They responded Oh no lesson five has several parts. There are five or six different topics and we will cover one topic each week. So lesson five takes a very long time to finish. My first thought was are they seriously trying to drag this out as long as possible? I replied oooookaaay

The previous missionary who knows us then turns to my wife. Sister Smith have you been fasting? To which my wife replied no not other than fast Sunday. He then asks why not? She replied I don't want to and have no reason to at this time with a puzzled expression.

I then turned to the missionary and asked. Why are you asking her this? Do you go to all of the active members houses and ask them the same question? I don't understand as we are active members who attend church every week, pay our tithing and have callings. If there is a question of my wife's worthiness than that should be between her and the Bishop. 

We are here because my son is a new member and needs to be taught about the church. My wife has been a member of the church longer than you have been alive. Over the past few months all you have done is focus on my wife with questions and ignore him as he just sits here on the couch not involved in any of the discussion. We need to refocus and regroup so we can get through these lessons and make sure my son is prepared as a new member of the church. I feel that you and elder (departed elder) have lost sight of this the past few months and have gone too far off topic.

That is when the missionary started to well up and cry. The next fifteen minutes were spent with me trying to console him and tell him I understand his heart is in the right place and he is a good missionary etc. Finally as they were saying goodbye the new more experienced missionary came up with the idea of having my son teach the lesson next week. That way he is more involved. My son agreed and they left.

i don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I am a pretty passive guy. The missionary who started to cry is very sensitive. I am not sure if anyone has seen the television show Arrested Development but he acts like and has the personality of Buster. That is not meant as a disparaging comment he just really does. 

I think that after my son teaches the lesson he already committed to next week we are done with the new member lessons. Most people I know and have spoken to don't even complete the new member lessons after just the first one or two.  Again I don't think that they had 9-12 year olds in mind when creating these. Just like I don't think the missionary lessons themselves are geared toward 9-`12 year olds. The lesson on Chastity they gave was over the line and inappropriate as far as I am concerned as well. My son knows the birds and the bees but they used specificity we don't normally use. 

 

As for my second question. Just to restate I am fine with the content of the class. A refresher is always good. The fact that no one is in this class other than us kind of makes us feel quarantined or like outsiders. We sit by ourselves in a small row pew during sacrament and then go to a 10x10ft class that we are the only people in it. Finally she then goes to relief society sits down and she says no one talks to her. This is not what a new member of the ward wants to feel. I can understand someone coming into the church as a brand new member being put in the situation as we are to eventually just stop going to church.  We are not going to do that by any means but as mentioned my wife is already having a hard time going back to church (I suspect she is doing so just for me more than anything) and I don't want her to become unhappy enough she wants to stop attending. I can see this happening of something doesn't change.

Thanks for reading. It felt good to share and get it out. 

[zil]

27 minutes ago, Newbutoldmember said:

Finally she then goes to relief society sits down and she says no one talks to her.

For the above, it probably won't help, but the other sisters are probably just as nervous about making the first move toward friendship as she may be.  For some reason, we can't seem to remember that we're sisters.  (Of course, some of us prefer to be left alone.)  Suggestions for consideration: she could pick someone and just ask if the chair next to them is taken, and if not, sit there.  That's often enough to start a conversation.  She (or you) could ask who her VTers are and she could sit next to them.  (If she invites them to visit, there's a fairly good chance they'll always come thereafter.)  That may seem backward, but as I started with: the other sisters are just as uncomfortable / nervous / unsure as she is.

As for the rest, you should definitely ask anyone and everyone about having more people in the class.  If you have friends in the ward, you can invite / ask them to come with you - it's not like there's some rule that says a person can't go to the GP class unless they're a new member.

Regarding what missionaries do in your home - you preside.  Don't forget that.  As such, you have the right to guidance as to how best to do that, and the right to explain your wishes to your guests (aka the missionaries).  (Of course, I strongly recommend prayerful consideration of all this, and following the Spirit, especially if the promptings go against your own wishes. )

[Jane_Doe]

I wouldn't beat yourself up over making the missionary cry.  He was over the line, and you corrected him on the matter.  You were truthful and honest, both for the negative (that he went over the line) and for the positive (that his heart was in the right place).  Don't beat yourself up over the fact that he has a "Buster" personality- that's just how he is and is NOT your fault.  You did the right thing.  Missionaries are learning themselves: how to teach, how to learn, and how to interact with people.  

I really like the idea of your son teaching the next lesson!  That was he's engaged, and it's fact that teaching is the best way to learn yourself.  

Again, I would ask other people to join you in class (either by inviting them yourself or letting the teacher know what's up).  Work on letting people there's ice to be broken, and breaking it yourself.  

 

 

[LadyGator]

7 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Again, I would ask other people to join you in class (either by inviting them yourself or letting the teacher know what's up).  Work on letting people there's ice to be broken, and breaking it yourself.  

I like your advice here.

 

Sometimes it can feel as though the cliques have already been established and trying to find the group you fit into is difficult, especially if you don't have a lot of the same interests or experiences that the others have had. I definitely feel for the Sister in this situation. 

[sevensonnets]

Well, I've only been a member about a year and the missionaries still come to see me every couple of weeks when they're in my area. I've known many missionaries in a year and a half and they have always been welcome in my home. They are a huge light in my life!  I switched from GP to Gospel Doctrine in January when they started the  the Book of Mormon and I needed that! But I feel invisible in Relief Society because nobody ever speaks to me. The few times I have tried to contribute there is one particular lady who always says, "I don't agree with that."  I participate in all the activities of RS, visit teach, do service, and have been to the temple for my endowment, but I guess they will always see me as a convert. It's tough to be a single slightly older lady in this church.

 

[zil]

15 minutes ago, sevensonnets said:

It's tough to be a single slightly older lady in this church.

I suspect it's more this than you being a convert.  I've been in the church my whole life and your experience in RS doesn't sound so different from mine (and I know other older, single sisters who have had the same experience).  Based on comments here, this is at least partly determined by the local / group culture.

[Jane_Doe]

1 hour ago, sevensonnets said:

The few times I have tried to contribute there is one particular lady who always says, "I don't agree with that."  

Here's my experience having been in 30+ wards: every ward has that particular lady.  She may be right occasionally, she made be an opinionated stick in the mud occasionally.  But don't let her come between you, Christ, and participating in church.