Does freemasonry have roots in Satanism?

[Guest MormonGator]

6 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

 

As far as sources: unless it is a prophet or apostle making a definitive statement on the matter, I don't care who says it. 

Well, I never heard a prophet say that juggling flaming chainsaws while sitting in a box filled with pit vipers is a bad idea So I expect to see a Youtube video of you doing it shortly. Hurry up please. 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Well, I never heard a prophet say that juggling flaming chainsaws while sitting in a box filled with pit vipers is a bad idea So I expect to see a Youtube video of you doing it shortly. Hurry up please. 

LOL!  But keep things in context.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Guest

[zil]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

Well, I never heard a prophet say that juggling flaming chainsaws while sitting in a box filled with pit vipers is a bad idea So I expect to see a Youtube video of you doing it shortly. Hurry up please. 

I think they'd have to be pretty small chainsaws to juggle while sitting, even on a stool.

[zil]

Just now, zil said:

I think they'd have to be pretty small chainsaws to juggle while sitting, even on a stool.

On an unrelated note, tonight's entertainment for the compound Christmas party just cancelled, soooo....?

[dahlia]

Gosh. It just amazes me sometimes, the stuff that people come up with.  This is a pretty good history of the Freemasons from the History Channel. Freemasonry

Not everything you don't understand or don't know about comes from Satan.

Why are some LDS so worried about Satan and not with the gifts and blessings that come from God?

[Guest]

8 hours ago, zil said:

I think they'd have to be pretty small chainsaws to juggle while sitting, even on a stool.

Does this count as close enough?

 

[zil]

3 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Does this count as close enough?

No. 

PS: Please stop searching YouTube, you might accidentally find a FP review by SBRE Brown and suddenly feel the need to blow more than $0.10 on a pen...  (That's how I fell in - one of his videos kept getting suggested until I caved...  Then I had to get my old pen working, but it had a cracked section, so I needed a new pen to hold me over until I could get it fixed...  Then it was all over.)

[MarginOfError]

13 hours ago, Carborendum said:

It's not that I'm looking for statements from others than yourself. I'm asking for better evidence and more substance.  Nothing in those quotes contradicts anything I've said in this thread.  And as I've read the entirety of both links, I don't see any argument that I haven't addressed already in this thread.

Please understand that I'm not saying it's a big deal either way.  It's not a deal breaker for me.  But from my point of view, the arguments and evidence presented to say "Joseph co-opted Masonry into the Endowment" is a house of cards.  Sure, I'll acknowledge the logical path based on sketchy evidence, but there is no substance to it. 

I'm also NOT saying that there is no connection at all.  I'm NOT saying that Joseph DIDN'T co-opt it.  I'm saying there is insufficient evidence to say there is anything more than circumstantial evidence to support the claims.  Show me some more evidence -- better evidence and I'll buy it.  But again, these links are more speculation at the prospect with no more substance.

As far as sources: unless it is a prophet or apostle making a definitive statement on the matter, I don't care who says it.  I'm looking for hard evidence and solid logic -- not a house of cards.

And I'd appreciate it if you addressed any of my points.  It seems like all you're getting out of my points is that I disagree with you, while not even considering the arguments I've made.  Do you see any flaw in my logic?

That's a pretty tough hurdle to clear seeing as Smith wasn't the most disciplined person about sourcing hid ideas. 

Yeah, the temple ceremonies were under pretty consistent development, with their first rendition happening in the upper rooms of the Kirtland Temple. But the clothing, signs, tokens, names, and narrative in the various rooms were developed following the exposure to Masonic rituals. There isn't evidence that I'm aware of that these features were a part of the endowment any sooner. 

See the references to the Kirtland endowment (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_(Latter_Day_Saints)) and note that it mostly consisted of washings and c anointings. But it certainly didn't posses's many of the elements that we now consider the endowment.

So do I have a direct quote from someone stating that Smith sourced the Masonic rituals for the enfowmentime ritual? No. Such an admission wasn't in Smith's character. But by the preponderance of evidence, I submit that's precisely what happened.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

But by the preponderance of evidence, I submit that's precisely what happened.

That's pretty much the bottom line.  And I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree.  To me the preponderance of evidence says otherwise.  And apparently we've read the same things to come to those separate conclusions.

[LadyGator]

As @MormonGator said my father has been involved with Freemasons since I was a kid, (not the kind with horns) and I have been involved with the Masonic youth groups since I was old enough to be a member. I have never seen anything that links them to Satanism. As far as the "secrecy" goes, yes the really old members don't want you to see what is in their books and some have scared the few younger members into believing that no one should see it. But to be perfectly honest as a convert when I first went to the Temple seeing some of  the same symbols was almost comforting to me. I know that might seem silly, but no one claimed that I was normal. :-)