Panic Over Dating and Marriage

[Fether]

I'm an RM of about 6 months. As I neared the end of my mission, the idea of marriage seemed more and more exciting. I was also aware (though not understanding) of the challenges that come with it. At the end of my mission, my mission president gave me the typical RM advice to "BE ANXIOUSLY ENGAGED IN FINDING AN ETERNAL COMPANION".

Now that I am home and dating, I have gone through 2 great relationships and am currently in one. My first 2 relationships ended the same way. We started dating and eventually started getting some what serious. Right as I would arrange for them to meet my parents, I started getting feelings that things were moving too fast, she isn't the one I should marry, what if there is somewhere more compatible for me? What if there is someone prettier? etc. I would try to weather it but it would occupy my mind 24/7 and eventually I would break up with them because of the stress (leaving her with an excuse like "We are moving too fast"). That same pattern is happening now and it is to the point where I almost don't even like her anymore. I had a mini panic attack 2 nights ago before I went to meet her family and now she is coming home with me for Christmas to meet mine.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with any of these girls, all RM's all very righteous and temple worthy.

Am I expecting too much? Am I moving too quickly? What can I do to remove these fears and move forward in faith? Is this NORMAL (if so, I may just choose to stay single! This is worse than anything I ever faced on my mission!)?????

Any advice???

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Fether said:

? What if there is someone prettier?

 

25 minutes ago, Fether said:

Any advice???

 

I mean this as kindly as possible: grow up.

[Guest]

I'll give you your own advice from another topic:

 

Quote

Try making your decision on whether to keep it or not on the content and not the rating

 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

You lost me at what if there is someone prettier. Dude, seriously.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt though and tell you that the same thing happened to my husband. He was almost engaged three times, and each time the Spirit told him no. He was crushed, he loved each of them. 

When he was 33, he met me, Finally the Spirit said yes when he prayed about me. We have been happily married for 22 years now.  

Maybe if you repent of that "prettier" thought and look on the heart as the Lord does, you won't have to wait as long as my husband did. My husband was not hung up on looks, I didn't mean that. I'm just saying.  . . .

Edited December 19, 2016 by LiterateParakeet
Typo

[Guest]

He who must be commanded in all things is a slothful and not a wise servant.

[zil]

OK, @Fether, we've been hard on you, and I hope that doesn't scare you away.   We want you and your future wife to be happy.  I'll point out one more thing though: You're comparing the woman you're with to some imaginary person who may or may not exist.  Why in the world would you do that?  Stop worrying about whether there's someone better, and start worrying about:

1) ...whether you are the best you that you can be

2) ...whether God approves of this relationship you're in

3) ...whether she wishes to continue the relationship in the same direction you do (are you both interested in Celestial marriage?  are you both interested in children?  what are your expectations for work / home life? etc. etc.)

As long as you're imagining up non-existent arrays of "better" women, you'll never discover (or appreciate) the best in the woman you're with at the moment, and you will certainly never be the best you (just imagine continuing that behavior after marriage! and don't say you won't - you're creating a habit here and if you don't learn to stop it, you will continue it later, even if you don't want to, so stop the habit now, before it's an even bigger problem or harder habit to overcome).

You're choosing to live in a state of uncertainty rather than making your state certain.

[NeuroTypical]

If you're going to dump someone, make sure it's for something legitimate.  There are plenty of red flags that something isn't a good match.  But "there may be someone more compatible" sure the heck isn't one of them.  

Here is wisdom: Whoever you marry, you will occasionally fight with, not get along with, be frustrated by.  (Example - A grammarian would struggle with my ending a sentence with three prepositions.)  Successful marriages come when people chose righteous loving ways to get past their incompatibilities.

Happy choosing!

Edited December 19, 2016 by NeuroTypical

[anatess2]

8 hours ago, Fether said:

Any advice???

I grew up in a country where divorce is illegal.  In that culture, marriage evolves differently than in a culture where marriage can have a "do over".  So, this is how I see dating and marriage:

Dating is about the journey that goes from "I like her because..." to "I don't like her because... and I'm just fine with that..." to "I choose to love her regardless of ANY other thing I would discover about her in the future".

So, as long as you are still looking at a girl and thinking what if I find someone better/more compatible/etc... you are not ready for marriage.  This is not about the girls.  This is about you. 

You are ready for marriage when you can look at that girl and say with complete honesty to yourself - "If I meet the perfect girl tomorrow I can look her in the eye and tell her - you're an awesome woman and you will make some lucky guy very happy but I chose to love my not-as-perfect wife and I am happy to spend my entire life bringing her with me closer to Christ."... it is THEN that you are ready for marriage.

Love is not just a feeling.  Love is a decision.  A choice made by free agents.  This is a decision that you will make and re-affirm everyday for the rest of your life through richer/poorer/sickness/health/etc...

Edited December 19, 2016 by anatess2

[Jane_Doe]

8 hours ago, Fether said:

Am I expecting too much?

Quit evaluating people based off of some imagined hypothetical.  See a person for who they are.

8 hours ago, Fether said:

Am I moving too quickly?

Totally.  3 serious relationships + post-mission acclimation in 6 months?  Dude, 6 months is barely enough for ONE relationship to get serious.  Quit trying to rush your and relationship's growth.

8 hours ago, Fether said:

What can I do to remove these fears and move forward in faith? 

Prayer, actually looking at what's in front of you, patience, realistic expectations.

8 hours ago, Fether said:

Is this NORMAL (if so, I may just choose to stay single! This is worse than anything I ever faced on my mission!)?????

"Normal" = "have other people gone through this" = yes, other people have been impatient dreamers whom rush into everything.  

Is it good or healthy?  No.  Stop it.

8 hours ago, Fether said:

Any advice???

Other thing: quit lying to these girls when you dump them.  Yes, "because I can't keep dreaming about greener grass" is a 100% lame excuse, but it's the truth and you owe them the truth.

[NeuroTypical]

Oh wow.  anatess2 wins the good advice award.  

[Vort]

11 hours ago, Eowyn said:

I mean this as kindly as possible: grow up.

 

10 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

You lost me at what if there is someone prettier. Dude, seriously.

I disagree with the above posters. That is to say, I agree that fixating on whether there's "someone prettier" is petty, immature, and perhaps a touch pathetic. But if that's where you're at, brother, then be honest with yourself. If that is what you find important, then do not compromise on it. Doesn't matter if it's stupid. If it's important to you, then stick to your guns.

Marriage is not an opportunity to show your friends how open-minded you are. If you don't think white girls are pretty, don't date white girls. If you don't like blond hair, please stay away from blonde girls. Whatever you find distasteful, don't date girls who have that trait.

Trust me on this. I am right. You are not doing yourself any favors to date girls who you think aren't pretty enough (or whatever) for you, and you're not doing them any favors, either.

Of course, your best course of action is to get your head in a better place and gain enough maturity to honestly not even care about certain unimportant traits, e.g. whether she's the prettiest girl you might ever have a chance at marrying. But you are who you are and you feel as you feel, so for the moment, always be true to your feelings. Yes, even if they're petty, immature, and pathetic.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Vort

[NightSG]

6 minutes ago, Vort said:

Marriage is not an opportunity to show your friends how open-minded you are. If you don't think white girls are pretty, don't date white girls. If you don't like blond hair, please stay away from blonde girls. Whatever you find distasteful, don't date girls who have that trait.

I wouldn't avoid first or second dates with them, though; I've occasionally changed my mind about certain characteristics after a good experience.  Just don't let yourself get sucked into a relationship if she doesn't start changing your mind within 2-3 dates; walk away before it gets serious.

[Guest MormonGator]

10 hours ago, Fether said:

 

Any advice???

Take a deep breath bro. From one brother to another-take a deep breath, pray and know that we are all praying for you. 

The best dating advice I can give you is to calm down, relax and have fun. People wrongly assume that dating has to be super serious but in reality, it should be fun too! You are a young man and have your entire life ahead of you. Go out to the movies, to dinner, to the park. Stay home and play video games, listen to music, talk, text and flirt for hours. Once you start doing that, relationships will fall into place. 

 

Sending love my friend. 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Fether said:

Any advice???

Well, there is someone prettier.  Unfortunately, I married her.  So, you may have to do your best in the given circumstances.

In an actual marriage, physical beauty isn't very important (which is good, since I certainly am uglier as a 34 year old than a 22 year old.  I imagine most people get uglier as they age, and that includes you.  That's just life.)  What is important is personality compatibility and if your spouse is living the gospel.  So, those should be your primary focus.  That said, I agree with Vort - if you are that hung up on physical beauty that you cannot appreciate a date's actual important qualities, do your date a favor and break up. 

Are you rushing things?  I can't answer that, as everyone has their own timeline for this stuff.  I do think your mission president was more talking about those guys who put no effort into dating whatsoever until they are 30 years old (and often after).  While it is important to find a spouse, you should not unnaturally force it.

Remember, there is no "one" person for you - otherwise, given divorce and remarriage rates in this country, everyone would have missed that person.  You will find that some personality types are more compatible with you than others, and it is important to find a spouse with whom you at least kind of get along (many people, incredibly, do not do this).  You also want a spouse who is living the gospel.  Praying about who to marry can help with these two things by warning you if the marriage is not going to work.  Other than that, however, you just need to find a good girl (even if she is not perfect) and be willing to put in the work to make it a good marriage, because that is what love is - service plus commitment.  Do these things, and you have all the chances in the world of having a happy marriage.

Edited December 19, 2016 by DoctorLemon

[yjacket]

I'm going to give you the best advice anyone will give you in getting married.

1) Look for a wife!! 

2) Look to become a husband!

I know it sounds so simple but in today's society it is actually a big beef of mine.  Society has done a very, very poor job of actually preparing and teaching young people what it means to be a wife and what it means to be a husband.  Quite frankly, too many young women and young men have absolutely no clue what it means to be married and what it means to be a wife and a husband.  It is one of the reasons why homosexual "marriages" have become so acceptable, b/c people in general think that all you need to be married is to love each other and it is the biggest reason why divorce is so rampant.

If your concept of marriage is that "all we need to do is love each other", you are in for a very rough marriage.  Being a wife and being a husband comes with very specific roles and responsibilities (unfortunately our society has gotten them backwards and well it's not "politically correct" to actually outline what a wife does and what a husband does-but if you want a broad hint read The Proclamation on the Family).

So my advice, look for someone who wants to be a wife and who will excel at it! Naturally speaking you will generally only become infatuated with, i.e. sexually attached to women who are sexually attractive to you-so don't worry about whether she is "pretty enough", worry more about is she going to be a good wife.

Edited December 19, 2016 by yjacket

[Latter-Day Marriage]

17 hours ago, Fether said:

We started dating and eventually started getting some what serious. Right as I would arrange for them to meet my parents, I started getting feelings that things were moving too fast, she isn't the one I should marry, what if there is somewhere more compatible for me? What if there is someone prettier? etc. I would try to weather it but it would occupy my mind 24/7 and eventually I would break up with them because of the stress

First: Someone prettier?  Really?  Do you want girls asking themselves if there is somebody out there who is more handsome than you and using that to decided if they want to marry you?  How do you expect to have a strong loving relationship with your wife when you are both in your 70's if you make looks so important?

There is a more important issue here though that needs to be addressed.  There is a difference between having feelings of love for somebody, and being IN LOVE with somebody, and it sounds to me like you have trouble telling the difference.  These girls you broke up with, does the idea of them marrying some other guy and sharing their life, day and night, with them rather than you upset you any?  I assume not since you cut them loose and don't seem to feel any great regrets over it.  If that is so it would mean you were not in love with them, you may have felt love for them because as you said they had a number of admirable qualities, but you were not in love with them and deep down you knew that and started looking for an exit.  

When you are in love with somebody there is a deep emotional attachment and real commitment to the relationship.  The idea of breaking up and them marrying somebody else makes you want to hurl, the idea of finding somebody else you would rather be with sounds insane.  It doesn't matter if some other girl is prettier by the world's standards because as far as you are concerned she is the prettiest no matter how she looks.  Granted, that 'in love' feeling doesn't exist every single day of a couple's life, it's like a fire that burns down to coals and needs fresh wood tossed on it now and then, but if you don't share enough of that feeling to get the two of you to the alter than it wasn't right.  Turn it back on yourself, wouldn't you your wife to be head over heels in love with you on your wedding day rather than feel about you the way you felt about those past girls?

And taking a girl to meet your parents is not a commitment to get engaged or anything, don't make that big a deal out of it.  Slow down and pay attention to what you are feeling and thinking.  You are getting outside encouragement to find a spouse but don't let that pressure you to rush forward. 

And don't break up with some girl saying 'we're going too fast'. They will think if that was true you could just go slower and not break up so it comes off like a lie or excuse. 

[Latter-Day Marriage]

My wife says when it comes to dating:  Don't look for the one, be the one somebody else is looking for.

[Fether]

Oooff... Got a lot of flack for that "prettier" bit O.o ... You're all right, I know, but it was something I just typed in passing :|, it wasn't meant to be a comprehensive list of the main things that were bugging me... That being said, I thought more on it and am changing my perspective, so thank you all for that. I promise that is not all I'm looking for (though it is important to me and I am absolutely positive that every one of your spouses thinks you are the most attractive people on the planet (And I am also sure that that attraction grew in marriage (feeling like I have to justify everything I'm saying right now x) ))).

Anyway, I thank those of you who were honest and also gave constructive feed back

 

On 12/19/2016 at 9:52 AM, Vort said:

Marriage is not an opportunity to show your friends how open-minded you are. If you don't think white girls are pretty, don't date white girls. If you don't like blond hair, please stay away from blonde girls. Whatever you find distasteful, don't date girls who have that trait.

 

I appreciate what you said Vort (and not just because you defended me ). I grew up hearing all the time "looks don't matter", and then about high school there was a culture switch when everyone was saying "looks do matter, but they aren't everything". I agree with that last one, but I know you veteran spouses probably have more to say on that.

Point is, I was very stressed, worked it out in my mind, prayed, went to the temple, even opened up to my girlfriend about the anxiety I was feel. We talked it out on a drive back from her home town and she gave me a lot of help . Thanks everyone for your input!!

Edited December 21, 2016 by Fether

[Guest]

@Fether

Beauty:

There are reasons we find some people attractive and others not so much.

1) Reproduction: All animals find certain physical traits to be attractive because of the ability to reproduce.  Mammals (humans in particular) by their very nature must also look at physical traits that will promise the proper rearing of their offspring.  Physical strength in males to bring home the kill and protect the brood.  Wider hips promise healthy fetal development and delivery.  Yes, I'm well aware that there are exceptions to this.  But this is the general pattern.  And it is cross-culturally the fact of human coupling.

2) Health:  There are many physical "tells" of a person's health.  Obviously, if a person seems unhealthy, that would indicate a lower ability to reproduce or raise/protect young.  But it also means that you're not going to catch whatever they've got.  Some of these tells come off to the conscious mind as signs of beauty.  But these signs are not as universal as the reproduction tells.  Cultures seem to have differing cultural signs of health.  But you live in this society with its norms of what is healthy.  So, you're naturally going to be attracted to this culture's signs of health.

3) Averaging: The look of people you grew up with imprinted in your mind.  The more people you grew up with, the more imprints.  Your brain then forms a composite of what is considered "average".  Believe it or not, the person you see as having the most average features is what you consider beautiful.  Think about it.  When you say a girl is unattractive, what are you looking at?  Her nose is "too big".  Her mouth is "too wide".  Her forehead is "too high".  Her cheekbones are "too sharp".  She's "too short"/ "too tall"...

It may seem counter-intuitive to think that an average person is more attractive.  But it's a scientific fact.  This is one motivator in minimizing inter-racial marriage/coupling.  It's not that we're racist.  It's that we have formed a composite based on all the people we've seen in our lives.  And a large part of that is our own families.

So, don't be so afraid of looking for someone who is beautiful.  Just don't let that be the ONLY thing.

BTW, @DoctorLemon, I'VE married the most beautiful woman in the world, so, I'm doing just fine, thank you.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Fether said:

Oooff... Got a lot of flack for that "prettier" bit

Here is the deal - obsession with "prettiness" to the degree that occurs within American society these days is what I like to call "porno thinking".  Pornography sends the message that a specific, flawless body type is the only type of beauty worth appreciating.  Pornography has saturated society to the point that the men who view it (many of whom control our pop culture) bombard everyone with the message that being physically beautiful in a specific way is all-important, and that inner beauty, or even being outwardly beautiful in a different way, is not worthy of appreciation.  What is more, society is buying this message, hook, line, and sinker!  This type of thinking is extremely destructive, and I have seen the effects even within the Church.

I once knew a guy who was very arrogant and, frankly, not particularly handsome.  Nonetheless, he was active in the Church, and several really nice women in the ward wanted to date him.  He did not give them a second look, because he felt the only girls worthy of dating him were "skinny blonde cheerleaders" (I am not speculating here - he was very vocal about this point).  He is now middle aged and still single, having never found someone pretty enough for him to start a serious relationship with.  His attitude hurt him (by depriving him of marriage), potentially hurt one of these really nice sisters (by depriving her of a potential husband), potentially hurt any children they would have had (by depriving them of a home with the gospel), and so on and so forth.  

Don't be like this guy I once knew.  Don't succumb to porno thinking.  Use wisdom and the Spirit when choosing a spouse, but be careful about making judgments like "she is not pretty enough".

Edited December 21, 2016 by DoctorLemon

[Guest MormonGator]

9 hours ago, Fether said:

Oooff... Got a lot of flack for that "prettier" bit O.o ... You're all right, I know, but it was something I just typed in passing :|, it wasn't meant to be a comprehensive list of the main things that were bugging me... That being said, I thought more on it and am changing my perspective, so thank you all for that. I promise that is not all I'm looking for (though it is important to me and I am absolutely positive that every one of your spouses thinks you are the most attractive people on the planet (And I am also sure that that attraction grew in marriage (feeling like I have to justify everything I'm saying right now x) ))).

Anyway, I thank those of you who were honest and also gave constructive feed back

 

I appreciate what you said Vort (and not just because you defended me ). I grew up hearing all the time "looks don't matter", and then about high school there was a culture switch when everyone was saying "looks do matter, but they aren't everything". I agree with that last one, but I know you veteran spouses probably have more to say on that.

Point is, I was very stressed, worked it out in my mind, prayed, went to the temple, even opened up to my girlfriend about the anxiety I was feel. We talked it out on a drive back from her home town and she gave me a lot of help . Thanks everyone for your input!!

You are a good guy dude. Great post. 

[eddified]

I'm appalled at how hard people have come down on @Fether. (But I guess it wasn't too hard, since @Fether is still sticking around the forum.) I share the following not for @Fether, who is now engaged, but for anyone else lurking that has felt similar feelings.

I too became "cold" when it became clear that my girlfriend and I were at a point where we could get engaged. I wanted to be around her less. Not because she wasn't cute or wonderful, but because I was suffering from commitment issues. I was at BYU, where there are thousands of eligible single women walking around campus every day. I was having "the grass might be greener" mentality. I was afraid that I would end up missing out on someone prettier. I ended up deciding to date other women. We parted ways. After a few months of missing her so badly, I realized she was perfect for me. It was hard work but I won her back. I prayed about it and realized that no one is perfect--there may be someone else out there, but to pass her up would be a shame since we got along so well with each other and had similar values. We've been married for 12 years and I'm very happy. We have 6.5 children. For the longer version of the same story, you can read: https://www.reddit.com/r/latterdaysaints/comments/62gpef/coping/dfn13le/

TL;DR: I suffered commitment issues and was shallow. It's where I was at at the time. But I got through it, and pushed off the natural man that wanted the prettiest girl out there. I'd like to point out that when we want to help people who we see in situations like this, we should do so with genuine concern and love. Harsh judgement isn't as effective as charity and the pure love of Christ.