Mormon Social Justice Warriors up in arms about the Mormon Tabernacle Choir


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So, Mormons line up against Trump to try and get McMullen in office. That doesnt work so they vote for Trump while holding their nose because of some locker room talk (which a=was offensive BTW, but it doesnt even compare to abortion or baby murder as I call it). Now MOTAB is singing at the inauguration??? How classic. Some of the people who hate him the most will be validating him. 

He does know what he is doing. Now the libs will hate us even more than they do now. Mormons will be ridiculed for this and Trump will defend them. Long story short--- mormons will love Trump when it is all over with as he will be our only friend. Odd how many people believe we (LDS) are misogynistic, racist etc and now we will validate their beliefs by siding with Trump. For the record I voted for him. Much better than any liberal.

Job well done Mr Trump!

Image result for raised glass for toast meme
 

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49 minutes ago, paracaidista508 said:

So, Mormons line up against Trump to try and get McMullen in office. That doesnt work so they vote for Trump while holding their nose because of some locker room talk (which a=was offensive BTW, but it doesnt even compare to abortion or baby murder as I call it). Now MOTAB is singing at the inauguration??? How classic. Some of the people who hate him the most will be validating him.

I'm sure this is incorrect, since I've been told by Trump supporters of impeccable credentials that MoTab's presence has nothing--nothing!!!!--to do with endorsing Trump as an individual or the policies he claims to espouse.  It's all about patriotism, civility and the peaceful transfer of power, doncha know?

By the way:  It wasn't "locker room talk"; it was a confession of sexual assault.  PEOPLE GO TO JAIL FOR IT.  IN MY PREVIOUS WORK AS A CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN

We can acknowledge the heinousness of abortion without papering over the despicable life choices of someone who (we hope) will be an ally on the abortion front.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I'm sure this is incorrect, since I've been told by Trump supporters of impeccable credentials that MoTab's presence has nothing--nothing!!!!--to do with endorsing Trump as an individual or the policies he claims to espouse.  It's all about patriotism, civility and the peaceful transfer of power, doncha know?

I didnt call it an endorsement...their presence at the inauguration will be a validation in the eyes of many. That is why so many"A Listers" will not perform for the inauguration. This will go towards validating the misconception many have of our faith. Personally I dont care, but it was interesting to see the orchestrated opposition to Trump by Mormons and now Mormons are singing for him. Perception is everything.

By the way:  It wasn't "locker room talk"; it was a confession of sexual assault.  PEOPLE GO TO JAIL FOR IT.  IN MY PREVIOUS WORK AS A CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN

I am going to call BS on the Jail thing... Cite j ust one case where anyone has gone to prison/jail for saying they sexually assaulted someone and the only evidence was a recorded statement. No victim, no witness corroborating the incident, the absence of physical evidence, not placing the victim and suspect at the scene together etc.... If I ever booked anyone for sexual assault using only the evidence you just cited I would go to jail. As an attorney you would know that. Anyway- cite me a docket where that was the only evidence avail (just a statement) no victim etc where the suspect went to prison based on that alone.

If that was enough PC Trump would be behind bars.

We can acknowledge the heinousness of abortion without papering over the despicable life choices of someone who (we hope) will be an ally on the abortion front.

 

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26 minutes ago, paracaidista508 said:

I didnt call it an endorsement...their presence at the inauguration will be a validation in the eyes of many. That is why so many"A Listers" will not perform for the inauguration. This will go towards validating the misconception many have of our faith. Personally I dont care, but it was interesting to see the orchestrated opposition to Trump by Mormons and now Mormons are singing for him. Perception is everything.

I apologize if it came off as if I were jumping on you specifically.  The point, which I should have made more clearly, was that we were assured that this wouldn't be the case.

Quote

I am going to call BS on the Jail thing... Cite j ust one case where anyone has gone to prison/jail for saying they sexually assaulted someone and the only evidence was a recorded statement. No victim, no witness corroborating the incident, the absence of physical evidence, not placing the victim and suspect at the scene together etc.... If I ever booked anyone for sexual assault using only the evidence you just cited I would go to jail. As an attorney you would know that. Anyway- cite me a docket where that was the only evidence avail (just a statement) no victim etc where the suspect went to prison based on that alone.

First off, you're demanding an inapposite example.  Because there was additional evidence in Trump's case.  Numerous self-professed victims came forward, and were immediately pooh-poohed as the second-coming of Bill Clinton's "bimbo eruption". 

And while I'll not compromise my clients' confidentiality or my own anonymity by citing to the dockets I've worked, I can assure you that the offense is one that can carry jail (and even prison) time:

Quote

Utah Code Ann. 76-5-404.  Forcible sexual abuse.

(1) A person commits forcible sexual abuse if the victim is 14 years of age or older and, under circumstances not amounting to rape, object rape, sodomy, or attempted rape or sodomy, the actor touches the anus, buttocks, or any part of the genitals of another, or touches the breast of a female, or otherwise takes indecent liberties with another, or causes another to take indecent liberties with the actor or another, with intent to cause substantial emotional or bodily pain to any person or with the intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person, without the consent of the other, regardless of the sex of any participant.
(2) Forcible sexual abuse is:
(a) except as provided in Subsection (2)(b), a felony of the second degree, punishable by a term of imprisonment of not less than one year nor more than 15 years; or
(b) except as provided in Subsection (3), a felony of the first degree, punishable by a term of imprisonment for 15 years and which may be for life, if the trier of fact finds that during the course of the commission of the forcible sexual abuse the defendant caused serious bodily injury to another.
(3) If, when imposing a sentence under Subsection (2)(b), a court finds that a lesser term than the term described in Subsection (2)(b) is in the interests of justice and states the reasons for this finding on the record, the court may impose a term of imprisonment of not less than:
(a) 10 years and which may be for life; or
(b) six years and which may be for life.
(4) Imprisonment under Subsection (2)(b) or (3) is mandatory in accordance with Section 76-3-406.

 

Quote

Utah Code Ann. 76-9-702.1.  Sexual battery.

(1) A person is guilty of sexual battery if the person, under circumstances not amounting to an offense under Subsection (2), intentionally touches, whether or not through clothing, the anus, buttocks, or any part of the genitals of another person, or the breast of a female person, and the actor's conduct is under circumstances the actor knows or should know will likely cause affront or alarm to the person touched.
(2) Offenses referred to in Subsection (1) are:
(a) rape, Section 76-5-402;
(b) rape of a child, Section 76-5-402.1;
(c) object rape, Section 76-5-402.2;
(d) object rape of a child, Section 76-5-402.3;
(e) forcible sodomy, Subsection 76-5-403(2);
(f) sodomy on a child, Section 76-5-403.1;
(g) forcible sexual abuse, Section 76-5-404;
(h) sexual abuse of a child, Subsection 76-5-404.1(2);
(i) aggravated sexual abuse of a child, Subsection 76-5-404.1(4);
(j) aggravated sexual assault, Section 76-5-405; and
(k) an attempt to commit any offense under this Subsection (2).
(3) Sexual battery is a class A misdemeanor.
(4) For purposes of Subsection 77-41-102(17) only, a plea of guilty or nolo contendere to a charge under this section that is held in abeyance under Title 77, Chapter 2a, Pleas in Abeyance, is the equivalent of a conviction. This Subsection (4) also applies if the charge under this section has been subsequently reduced or dismissed in accordance with the plea in abeyance agreement.

 

Quote

If that was enough PC Trump would be behind bars.

Trump's liberty, like that of our esteemed former SecState, is much more a factor of who he is and who is friends are than it is a reflection on what he has actually done or the quality of the evidence against him. 

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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4 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I apologize if it came off as if I were jumping on you specifically.  The point, which I should have made more clearly, was that we were assured that this wouldn't be the case.

First off, you're demanding an inapposite example.  Because there was additional evidence in Trump's case.  Numerous self-professed victims came forward, and were immediately pooh-poohed as the second-coming of Bill Clinton's "bimbo eruption". 

And while I'll not compromise my clients' confidentiality or my own anonymity by citing to the dockets I've worked, I can assure you that the offense is one that can carry jail (and even prison) time:

 

 

Trump's liberty, like that of our esteemed former SecState, is much more a factor of who he is and who is friends are than it is a reflection on what he has actually done or the quality of the evidence against him. 

I am well aware the offense comes with jail time IF CONVICTED. You posited that his statement alone was enough to land him in jail. If you wanted to include all the other evidence, victims et al with it perhaps you should have. After all you are a lawyer and as such should know better.

As for a docket being confidential? They are public record when there is a conviction. Give me one docket where someone went to prison for just a  statement and no other evidence or victim to come forward - for sexual assault BTW just to keep it real. I would be very interested in reading how someone went to prison without one iota of Probable Cause which led directly to "beyond a reasonable doubt" as you have claimed.

Im asking that because you are claiming Trump is a rapist based solely upon his statement. 

Your quote for your reference:    

" By the way:  It wasn't "locker room talk"; it was a confession of sexual assault.  PEOPLE GO TO JAIL FOR IT.  IN MY PREVIOUS WORK AS A CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN "

 

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There's a man I know who used to be a part of my church. He now says he doesn't believe in God anymore. He said he is bothered by all of the Christians who've supported Trump. In fact, he's bothered by it so much, it may be years before he comes back to church. 

So yes, atheists are watching and are discouraged by the Christians who "worship" Trump. They mistakenly attach sexism and bigotry to the church because of Trump regardless of whether or not Trump is any of those things. 

Edited by Larry Cotrell
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6 minutes ago, Larry Cotrell said:

There's a man I know who used to be a part of my church. He now says he doesn't believe in God anymore. He said he is bothered by all of the Christians who've supported Trump. In fact, he's bothered by it so much, it may be years before he comes back to church. 

So yes, atheists are watching and are discouraged by the Christians who "worship" Trump. They mistakenly attach sexism and bigotry to the church because of Trump regardless of whether or not Trump is any of those things. 

I agree with these sentiments. What I don't understand is those who were championing the horrific Hillary Clinton as a great choice for president, and who now are decrying Donald Trump over his obvious (though certainly no worse) flaws.

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1 hour ago, paracaidista508 said:

Im asking that because you are claiming Trump is a rapist based solely upon his statement. 
 

paracaidista,

You are wasting your breath JAG thinks Trump is the devil and sees him through that world-view; until his world-view is shattered he will continue to make irrational, unsubstantiated, emotional based charges like this against Trump.

Edited by yjacket
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Guest MormonGator
24 minutes ago, yjacket said:

paracaidista,

You are wasting your breath JAG thinks Trump is the devil and sees him through that world-view; until his world-view is shattered he will continue to make irrational, unsubstantiated, emotional based charges like this against Trump.

Besides we all know that @yjacket is everyone's favorite social justice warrior. 

;)

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2 hours ago, paracaidista508 said:

I am well aware the offense comes with jail time IF CONVICTED. You posited that his statement alone was enough to land him in jail.

You have already posted what I actually said, which was:  ". . . it was a confession of sexual assault.  PEOPLE GO TO JAIL FOR IT.  IN MY PREVIOUS WORK AS A CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN."

Now, you're trying to force an interpretation where in my phrase "People go to jail for it", the "it" refers to a confession, rather than for the actual crime of sexual assault.  The trouble is--that's not what I meant at all.  I was addressing your trivialization of Trump's statements and your implicit suggestion that it is perfectly normal for men in "locker rooms" to admit to crimes that they did not in fact commit.  Getting into the pedantry of whether a confession alone is grounds for conviction, is quite beside the point. 

The point is, you voted for a guy who openly boasted of having committed what in Utah amounts to misdemeanor sexual battery if not felony forcible sexual abuse.  I'm sorry if that wounds the conscience of any Latter-day Saints who purport to abhor sexual predations yet nevertheless gave Donald Trump their full-throated support; but as I pointed out earlier in this thread--the rage some may feel at my open refusal to kiss Trump's ring is merely a evidence of their own wounded souls; and those wounds will not be healed by continued pedantry, misrepresentation or slander.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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Guest Godless
2 hours ago, Larry Cotrell said:

There's a man I know who used to be a part of my church. He now says he doesn't believe in God anymore. He said he is bothered by all of the Christians who've supported Trump. In fact, he's bothered by it so much, it may be years before he comes back to church. 

So yes, atheists are watching and are discouraged by the Christians who "worship" Trump. They mistakenly attach sexism and bigotry to the church because of Trump regardless of whether or not Trump is any of those things. 

Yes, we're absolutely taking note. And we're going to remember this election every time someone tries to claim that Republicans are champions of family values and moral fortitude.  In that sense, Trump's victory may still hurt the GOP in the long term.

2 hours ago, Vort said:

I agree with these sentiments. What I don't understand is those who were championing the horrific Hillary Clinton as a great choice for president, and who now are decrying Donald Trump over his obvious (though certainly no worse) flaws.

To be fair, many of us did the latter without doing much of the former. HRC wasn't a great choice (far from it), but stopping Trump was priority number one for many on the left. That Clinton became our best chance at that is unfortunate to say the least.

2 hours ago, yjacket said:

paracaidista,

You are wasting your breath JAG thinks Trump is the devil and sees him through that world-view; until his world-view is shattered he will continue to make irrational, unsubstantiated, emotional based charges like this against Trump.

Someone's worldview is likely to be shattered in the next 4 years, but time will tell whose worldview that will be, I suppose.

Edited by Godless
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22 minutes ago, Godless said:

To be fair, many of us did the latter without doing much of the former. HRC wasn't a great choice (far from it), but stopping Trump was priority number one for many on the left. That Clinton became our best chance at that is unfortunate to say the least.

 

And the reverse is also true... many supported Trump not because the liked or wanted Trump but because they wanted to stop HRC... But that doesn't seem to matter... Because even you held your nose while voting for Trump you are a sexist, racist, homophobe that clearly endorsed his every act as the New Gospel Truth

The hypocrisy of such is a stance is quite apparent to everyone, but those that are actually doing it.

 

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Guest MormonGator
7 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

And the reverse is also true... many supported Trump not because the liked or wanted Trump but because they wanted to stop HRC... But that doesn't seem to matter... Because even you held your nose while voting for Trump you are a sexist, racist, homophobe that clearly endorsed his every act as the New Gospel Truth

The hypocrisy of such is a stance is quite apparent to everyone, but those that are actually doing it.

 

The people that scare me the most are the hardcore Trump fans. I have a lot of sympathy for anyone who held their nose and voted for the least worst choice. 

The Trumpers make me want to re-read for the 30th time "The True Believer" by Eric Hoffer. Great book. 

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

tongue in cheek, not an actual factual statement. 

The nice thing about Trump's election (and Hillary's nomination) is, one can no longer be called to account for saying things one obviously didn't really believe. :satan:

On a more sober note:  it will be interesting to see how--or whether--we claw ourselves back to a political universe where honesty really matters.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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On 12/22/2016 at 3:11 PM, NeuroTypical said:

Trump is a schmoozer.  A deal maker.  He doesn't make enemies unless he needs to, and he doesn't keep them unless he needs to.  And he made enemies of a lot of Mormons, basically insulted us during the campaign to get a bit more christian votes.   So now he won, he's smoothing over ruffled feathers by doing us the honor of having MoTab do their thing at his inauguration. Nothing more, nothing less.  

I don't think this is a peacemaking move. At best, he's exploiting the church's position of political neutrality in order to make it look like the Mormons are okay with him after all. At worst, he's exploiting the church's position of political neutrality to get back at all the Mormons who are revolted by everything about him. 

I don't blame the choir for agreeing to sing. If you have a policy of picking up any animal that asks for a ride, you have to say yes, even to the snake. That doesn't stop the bile from rising up your throat when the snake slithers up your palm, though. 

Edited by ldsister
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20% of voters said they despised both major candidates. 80% of those voted for Trump. Had Hillary garnered even half of those votes, she would have won.  It's an open secret that the vast majority of values voters picked Trump because he promised pro-life justices and Hillary promised pro-abortion ones. To pretend that there were masses of Christians bowing and scraping with fawning adoration over Mr. Trump is disingenuous.  Personally, he was in last place on my list, for the GOP side.  He still beat HRC, though. If a Christian turns atheist because they find out how I voted, might I suggest they were just looking for an excuse to jump ship?

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On 12/22/2016 at 2:52 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

Look, the guy's a liar, amoral, generally hostile to Gospel values, and very probably a rapist.  I'm not thrilled about it either. 

... By the way:  It wasn't "locker room talk"; it was a confession of sexual assault.  PEOPLE GO TO JAIL FOR IT.  IN MY PREVIOUS WORK AS A CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN

For the record, the only thing he confessed to was kissing without asking ("Just kissing"). Here is the transcript: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/us/donald-trump-tape-transcript.html?_r=0

Are you saying that kissing is jail-able sexual assault?

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On 12/30/2016 at 5:28 PM, Larry Cotrell said:

...atheists are watching and are discouraged by the Christians who "worship" Trump. They mistakenly attach sexism and bigotry to the church because of Trump regardless of whether or not Trump is any of those things. 

That would be a remarkably irrational conclusion. The atheists I know tend not to be that idiotic. So, I find it very hard to believe.

Thanks, Wade Englund

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