Can we really become gods?

[bytebear]

No, I'm not. the word "God" is commonly used to refer to the Father, but when we talk about becoming Gods, we aren't talking about becoming God the Father, so in the context of this discussion, your point is moot.

[MarginOfError]

On 12/29/2016 at 3:39 PM, Zarahemla said:

The idea of exaltation is wonderful that we get to return to live with God and Jesus and our family forever, but D&C 132 says that we can become actual gods. Does that ever seen too good to be true and have modern prophets and apostles backed off from this teaching so not as to weird out converts? The first commandment given to Moses was to not have any other Gods and one Bible verse says something like there are no other gods than me, but if we believe in becoming gods then there must be countless numbers of them, even before Heavenly Father, our God. Does it seem too good to be true, or is it a very real reality that the missionaries just avoid teaching and the prophets have avoided saying the word gods in General Conference. Does that make us believe in multiple and many gods? Do you want to be one?

I haven't bothered reading most of the responses, but wanted this statement to appear at least once. If it is said more than once, great.

I don't know. At times, this belief feels like an overly-extended thought experiment...sort of like over analyzing a parable until it sounds like nonsense.

Other times, it doesn't seem so far-fetched. 

So is it true or not? I don't know, and I have my doubts.  But I really don't care that much either way. 

[Bad Karma]

On 12/30/2016 at 3:07 PM, bytebear said:

Again, you are describing Jesus Christ.  Not the Father and not the Son.   God is contextually ambiguous.  As was said earlier, the Son can speak as the Father but both are God, yet, separate persons.

And again, you'd be wrong..,, Endlessly so too. 

[Bad Karma]

18 hours ago, bytebear said:

No, I'm not. the word "God" is commonly used to refer to the Father, but when we talk about becoming Gods, we aren't talking about becoming God the Father, so in the context of this discussion, your point is moot.

Oh boy....

[bytebear]

So, then God as defined in

Doctrine and Covenants 20:28

  and

2 Nephi 31:21

is a three headed, six armed person?  No, God as described in scripture is three persons distinct and physically separate.  We are not trinitarians.  There is no mystery here.  God is not single individual. 

 

[Bad Karma]

9 hours ago, bytebear said:

So, then God as defined in

Doctrine and Covenants 20:28

  and

2 Nephi 31:21

is a three headed, six armed person?  No, God as described in scripture is three persons distinct and physically separate.  We are not trinitarians.  There is no mystery here.  God is not single individual. 

 

So, in essence, you believe in a blob god suffering terribly from multiple personality disorder.

Interesting.. How very Nicene creed of you. Curious, are you LDS? 

 

 

 

 

 

[CV75]

On 12/29/2016 at 3:39 PM, Zarahemla said:

The idea of exaltation is wonderful that we get to return to live with God and Jesus and our family forever, but D&C 132 says that we can become actual gods. Does that ever seen too good to be true and have modern prophets and apostles backed off from this teaching so not as to weird out converts? The first commandment given to Moses was to not have any other Gods and one Bible verse says something like there are no other gods than me, but if we believe in becoming gods then there must be countless numbers of them, even before Heavenly Father, our God. Does it seem too good to be true, or is it a very real reality that the missionaries just avoid teaching and the prophets have avoided saying the word gods in General Conference. Does that make us believe in multiple and many gods? Do you want to be one?

I want to love as Christ did, and God is love.

[Maureen]

14 hours ago, bytebear said:

 

is a three headed, six armed person?  No, God as described in scripture is three persons distinct and physically separate.  We are not trinitarians.  There is no mystery here.  God is not single individual. 

 

Actually trinitarians believe that God is three distinct persons.

M.

[Maureen]

4 hours ago, Bad Karma said:

So, in essence, you believe in a blob god suffering terribly from multiple personality disorder.

Interesting.. How very Nicene creed of you. Curious, are you LDS? 

You obviously do not know what the Nicene Creed actually says or what it means. Here it is:

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven, by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary and became truly human. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]. Who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified. Who has spoken through the prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

M.

[Guest]

I'd honestly be fine if we all became just angels and ministered to others and brought peace to those on the world. Sometimes I think it's too much responsibility to be a god, or I'd never live up to it. Nowadays I mainly just look for a peaceful, loving eternity filled with joy.

[Bad Karma]

2 hours ago, Maureen said:

You obviously do not know what the Nicene Creed actually says or what it means. Here it is:

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven, by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary and became truly human. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]. Who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified. Who has spoken through the prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

M.

Oh, I know, it's just the blatant ignorance of those that espouse themselves to it are heretical at best. The concept of a blob god with multiple personalities swallowing down gulps of celestial Prozac just to keep everything straight in his head is laughable. Jesus is NOT God, nor is the Holy Spirit. God is ONE, Jesus his son, and the holy spirit are all separate entities. 

Edited January 2, 2017 by Bad Karma

[bytebear]

7 hours ago, Bad Karma said:

Quote

 

So, in essence, you believe in a blob god suffering terribly from multiple personality disorder.

Interesting.. How very Nicene creed of you. Curious, are you LDS? 

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

No, I believe the scriptures, which are very clear on the subject.

 

Edited January 2, 2017 by bytebear

[Maureen]

50 minutes ago, Bad Karma said:

...Jesus is NOT God, nor is the Holy Spirit. God is ONE, Jesus his son, and the holy spirit are all separate entities. 

(2 Nephi 31:21) And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

(Alma 11:44) ...and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God...

(Mormon 7:7) And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

M.

[askandanswer]

On 12/30/2016 at 7:39 AM, Zarahemla said:

The idea of exaltation is wonderful that we get to return to live with God and Jesus and our family forever, but D&C 132 says that we can become actual gods. Does that ever seen too good to be true and have modern prophets and apostles backed off from this teaching so not as to weird out converts? 

We can become gods but not God. That position is already occupied, and the current Occupant is doing a pretty good job in spite of the difficult and stubborn material He has to work with. 

Edited January 2, 2017 by askandanswer

[Bad Karma]

45 minutes ago, Maureen said:

(2 Nephi 31:21) And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

(Alma 11:44) ...and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God...

(Mormon 7:7) And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

M.

Hmm, how disturbing.... I shall have to think on this more.  Not that I entertain for one second the existence of a blob god with MPD and all the sheer bull the Nicene creed is. 

Edited January 2, 2017 by Bad Karma

[Guest]

LDS belief in the Godhead

 

Also I think when the Bible told me to become one with my husband, and when Christ said that if we are not one we are not His, he didn't mean that we become the same, singular organism 

[Vort]

2 hours ago, Maureen said:

(2 Nephi 31:21) And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

(Alma 11:44) ...and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God...

(Mormon 7:7) And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

Let it be noted in heaven and on earth: Vort agrees with Maureen.

[MarginOfError]

7 hours ago, Bad Karma said:

Hmm, how disturbing.... I shall have to think on this more.  Not that I entertain for one second the existence of a blob god with MPD and all the sheer bull the Nicene creed is. 

You may want to consider that Mormonism, strictly speaking, in not a monotheistic religion. It is a heliotheistic religion. (Which happens to be one of the reasons mainstream Christianity doesn't accept Mormonism as part of Christianity). 

In short, heliotheism promotes the existence of multiple gods, but chooses to worship only one. 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Vort said:

Let it be noted in heaven and on earth: Vort agrees with Maureen.

I'm going to go check outside to see if the world has ended... because I agree with her too.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

You may want to consider that Mormonism, strictly speaking, in not a monotheistic religion. It is a heliotheistic religion. (Which happens to be one of the reasons mainstream Christianity doesn't accept Mormonism as part of Christianity). 

In short, heliotheism promotes the existence of multiple gods, but chooses to worship only one. 

I believe the word you're looking for is "Heno" - theism.

No, we are not henotheists either.  We believe in the Godhead.  Try as we might, that belief doesn't really fit with any other theistic ideology as others perceive it.  As we perceive it, we may find many parallels and similarities to other dogmas.  But none really describe our belief other than the Godhead.

[Jane_Doe]

6 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

You may want to consider that Mormonism, strictly speaking, in not a monotheistic religion. It is a heliotheistic religion. (Which happens to be one of the reasons mainstream Christianity doesn't accept Mormonism as part of Christianity). 

In short, heliotheism promotes the existence of multiple gods, but chooses to worship only one. 

For the record, the mainstream Trinity of three persons doesn't fit classical monotheism either.  Truth is, beliefs systems are complicated and usually don't fit into simple pigeon holes.

[estradling75]

23 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I'm going to go check outside to see if the world has ended... because I agree with her too.

It is hard not to agree with a citation of scripture correctly rendered

[Vort]

6 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

It is a heliotheistic religion.

Which means that when we get together at parties, we use the balloons to sound like Donald Duck.

[Vort]

26 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

For the record, the mainstream Trinity of three persons doesn't fit classical monotheism either.  Truth is, beliefs systems are complicated and usually don't fit into simple pigeon holes.

In fact, my Muslim friend in grad school made it clear that he thought modern Christianity was apostate because they were not monotheists.

[Just_A_Guy]

14 hours ago, Bad Karma said:

Hmm, how disturbing.... I shall have to think on this more.  Not that I entertain for one second the existence of a blob god with MPD and all the sheer bull the Nicene creed is. 

Much of the heartburn we Mormons have with trinitarianism, we tend to attribute to the Nicene Creed; when we are often really thinking of the Athanasian Creed.

15 hours ago, Bad Karma said:

Oh, I know, it's just the blatant ignorance of those that espouse themselves to it are heretical at best. The concept of a blob god with multiple personalities swallowing down gulps of celestial Prozac just to keep everything straight in his head is laughable. Jesus is NOT God, nor is the Holy Spirit. God is ONE, Jesus his son, and the holy spirit are all separate entities. 

On the whole I think the creeds reflect a sincere-but-uninspired attempt to bring peace and unity to the church by harmonizing morphed scriptural passages that were by that point irreconcileable by any logical means.  I can mourn for the wrong-headedness of its originators without holding contempt for them or for those who could find no better way to put square pegs into theologically round holes. 

12 hours ago, Vort said:

Let it be noted in heaven and on earth: Vort agrees with Maureen.

Well, that's progress; but the thinking hasn't really been done until Vort agrees with MoE.

 

Edited January 2, 2017 by Just_A_Guy