unixknight Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 So yeah this was one of "those" mornings. I overslept, didn't feel well, was stuck in nasty traffic, and then to put icing on the cake, I got pulled over. Now, just to put this out there right off the bat: The officer, being a MD State Trooper, was very professional, polite, and I have no problems with him at all. This isn't an anti-cop rant or anything. He pulled me over because my Captain America license plate frame was partially blocking my registration stickers and he gave me a warning, since my driving record is pretty clean. I also asked him to assist me in getting back into traffic because there wasn't much speed up room in front of me. The emergency lane was about to end because of a bridge. He did so, no problem. But here's my epiphany. I've seen a lot of videos where people assert their rights by not rolling their window down all the way, not answering any questions, recording the incident on a dash cam or phone... And I was prepared to do these things. I have a dash cam, I have an app on my phone that records video and uploads to a remote location so it can't be deleted, and I even have a copy of a DOJ memo to the Baltimore PD asserting that people have a right to record officers. But as I sat there getting my license and registration out, I just felt like all of that was unnecessary. I mean, yes, those rights exist and I won't say that people should never assert them, but I also think those things should be used judiciously. If you feel like the officer is being unprofessional, that's the time to start recording. I just didn't see a need this morning. It's not that I was intimidated. The trooper wasn't being overbearing or nasty or anything like that. And it's not like I get unduly nervous when I see roof lights in my rearview. It's just that this kind of thing was just the officer doing his job (he was right, I looked at it later and the frame does block the stickers) and he did it like a professional. That's all I can ask for. Sure, it helps that he only gave me a warning and not a ticket, but honestly I don't think I'd have been mad at him if he had decided to go with a ticket. I've gotten tickets before and I deserved them all... well, one or two I don't think I did so I went to traffic court. Won one, lost one. But the point is I wasn't being picked on or persecuted or anything. It was fine and it's not ruining my day or anything like that. So now I have a slightly different perspective when I see YouTube videos of people giving officers a hard time for no real reason. Again, I do believe in asserting rights, but I also don't think that it's something you should do when politeness and courtesy work better. The trooper was polite and courteous, so why would I want to start giving him a hard time? Just to prove I have guts? Just to make a video to post on YouTube? Bah. Maybe I'm just too old for that stuff. So now I have to wait until the IT guys get in so I can ask to borrow a screwdriver... Epilogue: Want to hear something funny? Just last night I had a dream that I got pulled over, and it was @mirkwood... zil, mirkwood, Blackmarch and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Many years ago I was detained by the police (not arrested but brought in for questioning). I was super polite and open since i had nothing to hide. After about 30 seconds, it was clear that i was not the guy! So I naturally did what anyone would do and turned the police questioning into basically a missionary "first discussion" about the Church, right there in the questioning room! The Lord provides us with the strangest opportunities to teach... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godless Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 While I agree that stubborn theatrics and posturing do more harm than good, I will say that if you have the means to record these interactions discreetly (and it seems that you do), you should take advantage of that. You might get pulled over 100 times and never encounter an issue. But on that one day that you encounter a cop that might be having a really bad day, or feels like going on a power trip, you'll want to be recording before things get out of hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirkwood Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 6 hours ago, unixknight said: Epilogue: Want to hear something funny? Just last night I had a dream that I got pulled over, and it was @mirkwood... Did I write you a ticket? lol Blackmarch, Backroads and Sunday21 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirkwood Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 6 hours ago, unixknight said: by not rolling their window down all the way, not answering any questions ...all of which are red flags to an officer and make us wonder what criminal activity you are engaged in and hiding...just an FYI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted January 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 32 minutes ago, mirkwood said: Did I write you a ticket? lol Haha the dream didn't get that far. It was only up to the part where we recognized each other, then shifted to something else. 30 minutes ago, mirkwood said: ...all of which are red flags to an officer and make us wonder what criminal activity you are engaged in and hiding...just an FYI Yeah I prettymuch assumed that, and I can understand it. At the same time I suppose a "copblocker" would say "tough. Wonder all you like." And ok yeah that's as far as it goes, but it's not particularly constructive. mirkwood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirkwood Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 @unixknight you are right about the copblock mentality. It is counterproductive. Here is how I described it to a buddy of mine who causes problems like that on traffic stops. Let me paint two pictures: 99% of all traffic stops go like stop type #1. Let me repeat that, 99% of all stops will play out like #1, that is the norm or baseline for a stop. Stop type #1: I pull you over, I approach your car, you roll your window down all the way, we talk, I tell you why I stopped you, I obtain your license, registration and insurance. I go back to my car come back and you either get a ticket/warning, I give you your stuff back and off you go. That will all typically take 5-10 minutes. Stop type #2: Criminals in an effort to hide their crime of the moment, don't roll down their window (I might smell alcohol/drugs/dead people), "don't have" their license, or refuse to give it to me, same with their paperwork for the car, don't answer questions, argue with me, make accusations in an attempt to sidetrack me from what I'm doing which might result in their arrest, and just plain and simply don't comply. So let me tell you about my law abiding, concealed permit holding buddy on a traffic stop: rolls window down an inch, refuses to open it more "because you can hear me fine officer," immediately demands to know why he was stopped, asks if he is being detained, asks repeatedly if he is free to leave, provides license and paperwork as requested, refuses to respond to any other questions. So which group does an officer think my friend is a part of? #1 or #2? Copblockers are an even more extreme version of my friend, whether or not they have done something wrong besides the traffic violation. I told my friend that all he does is raises the suspicions of the officer who has pulled him over and that is going to extend the time he spends. By the time an officer is done with him on a stop they will figure they either had a copblocker stopped, or a criminal that was able to hide away what he was doing. Backroads and NeuroTypical 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted January 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 On 1/12/2017 at 8:18 PM, mirkwood said: @unixknight you are right about the copblock mentality. It is counterproductive. Here is how I described it to a buddy of mine who causes problems like that on traffic stops. Let me paint two pictures: 99% of all traffic stops go like stop type #1. Let me repeat that, 99% of all stops will play out like #1, that is the norm or baseline for a stop. Stop type #1: I pull you over, I approach your car, you roll your window down all the way, we talk, I tell you why I stopped you, I obtain your license, registration and insurance. I go back to my car come back and you either get a ticket/warning, I give you your stuff back and off you go. That will all typically take 5-10 minutes. Stop type #2: Criminals in an effort to hide their crime of the moment, don't roll down their window (I might smell alcohol/drugs/dead people), "don't have" their license, or refuse to give it to me, same with their paperwork for the car, don't answer questions, argue with me, make accusations in an attempt to sidetrack me from what I'm doing which might result in their arrest, and just plain and simply don't comply. So let me tell you about my law abiding, concealed permit holding buddy on a traffic stop: rolls window down an inch, refuses to open it more "because you can hear me fine officer," immediately demands to know why he was stopped, asks if he is being detained, asks repeatedly if he is free to leave, provides license and paperwork as requested, refuses to respond to any other questions. So which group does an officer think my friend is a part of? #1 or #2? Copblockers are an even more extreme version of my friend, whether or not they have done something wrong besides the traffic violation. I told my friend that all he does is raises the suspicions of the officer who has pulled him over and that is going to extend the time he spends. By the time an officer is done with him on a stop they will figure they either had a copblocker stopped, or a criminal that was able to hide away what he was doing. I think, and this is me playing Devil's advocate a bit, if you ask someone why they do it, their answer will be to educate people about their rights. I can see where they're coming from in that, since most people probably don't realize what their rights are exactly when interacting with law enforcement. I will agree with them that people do need that education. I also think that in some jurisdictions, like P.G. County, there isn't enough training and education for the officers and it leads to trouble around here. P.G. County now hires cops right out of high school. No degree of any kind required. I avoid P.G. County cops like they have Leprosy but MD Troopers are totally cool in my book. /Devil's Advocate mode off However, there are better ways to do educate people. I've seen videos where legal experts, in co-operation with police representatives, talk about these things and what peoples' rights are under the First, Fourth and Fifth Amendments and give examples. Most people simply don't know, with most of what they believe about interaction being informed by shows like Law & Order where you can sum up prettymuch every single episode like this: Bad guy does something bad. Cops investigate D.A. wants to prosecute but the pesky Constitution is getting in his way D.A. finds a way to get around the defendant's rights to win the conviction. If the judge is righteous and wise, they allow it and the Evil Defense attorney whines. If the judge is an evil, abrasive mean little person they block the heroic D.A.'s efforts and the suspect walks. D.A. is a hero and laments how crappy the Bill of Rights is because it makes his job so hard. This is how most people think it works. So I agree that there's a need for better education. That said... I think an education in asserting one's rights ought to also come with a primer on just when it's necessary to do so and when it isn't. If an officer is doing his job in a professional manner then I WANT to roll my window down all the way and I WILL answer reasonable questions. "Where are you going this morning, sir? I'm going to work." I MIGHT record the encounter but only if I feel a need to. I'd much prefer an encounter like this one where it ended with each of us telling the other to be safe than one where we're muttering curses under our breath at each other. Backroads and mirkwood 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirkwood Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 @unixknight I don't watch Law & Order...if that description is accurate...ugh, what a stupid show. Of course people say that to me about TWD and I like that show. There is exercising ones rights. There is actually knowing what your rights are and exercising them properly. There is being a __________. I've encountered all three from one end of the spectrum to the other. I have no problem with #1 or #2, it is #3 when it comes into play where there becomes a problem. I have no problem with people being educated. unixknight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted January 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 12 minutes ago, mirkwood said: @unixknight I don't watch Law & Order...if that description is accurate...ugh, what a stupid show. Of course people say that to me about TWD and I like that show. Oh man who doesn't love TWD? My problem is I thought I was up do date but then found out I am a half season behind My ex and I used to really love L&O before I noticed that pattern, and then I just felt disgusted by it. 12 minutes ago, mirkwood said: There is exercising ones rights. There is actually knowing what your rights are and exercising them properly. There is being a __________. I've encountered all three from one end of the spectrum to the other. I have no problem with #1 or #2, it is #3 when it comes into play where there becomes a problem. I have no problem with people being educated. Definitely. And the flip side of the coin is that there are people who think they have certain rights when they don't. You see plenty of those vids on YouTube too and they're a great cautionary tale. mirkwood and Just_A_Guy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Two-wheel drive? Tequila with daiquiri? Tangoing while drunk? mirkwood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordorbund Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 15 hours ago, Vort said: Two-wheel drive? Tequila with daiquiri? Tangoing while drunk? The Watchful Driver (not to be confused with The Walking Dead) Vort 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 hour ago, mordorbund said: The Watchful Driver (not to be confused with The Walking Dead) Wait...how does mordorbund know about "The Walking Dead"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordorbund Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 32 minutes ago, Anddenex said: Wait...how does mordorbund know about "The Walking Dead"? Same way anyone would know about it. Studio C. Sunday21, mirkwood and Anddenex 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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