Early Morning Seminary Pros and Cons

[gdiculous]

I am a freshman in high school, and attend early morning seminary. I'm trying to decide right now if I should continue with EMS or if I should try at-home seminary. I get up for seminary at 5:30 in the morning, and get home about 7:13 am. School starts at 9:00 am but I have to catch my bus at about 7:50. I do golf, UIL, and youth and government (mock trial court) and all GT/PreAP classes as well as one AP class (as that is all my school allows me to take). It's a heavy courseload, and I don't finish my homework normally until after midnight. I am always stressed, tired, and sick (but I can't stay home from school). I have missed so many days of seminary (and had to do the make-up work for it) that I don't know if going is the best option for me right now. I have an amazing teacher who gives great lessons, but he lets us out late (sometimes even 10 minutes after our normal let-out time, 6:50) so I don't have a lot of time to get ready. However, I really want to go to BYU Utah with a full scholarship. I look and feel terrible when I go to school, and it's starting to have a negative effect on my grades as I am partway through the second semester of 9th grade. It's also having a negative effect on my parents (who take turns driving me). My parents have tried talking to our bishop and the stake leader about online seminary, but that's not an option right now. If someone could give me some good advice on how to handle this situation, or even a link to seminary makeup work questions for the New Testament (because I have to type my own questions from the teacher manuel onto a Google Docs then answer them), that would be awesome!!

[zil]

IMO, when / how you go to seminary is a personal choice.  But if you can't handle the load, seminary should be the very last thing you remove from the load - in other words, do NOT stop going to seminary; in other words, make seminary the first priority.  It should be right up there with prayer, scripture study (it can be your scripture study), callings, family.  Do the Lord's things first, and then worry about whether the other things fit in.

Lack of sleep, by the way, turns you into the equivalent of a drunk driver.  Get enough sleep and your waking hours will be more effective, and healthier.

I have a testimony that when we put the things the Lord commands first, He then helps us to accomplish the remainder.  I have seen this happen in my own life with time, money, capacity, intelligence, etc.  When we give Him our all, He magnifies it to be enough (see Mark 6:35-43 - when the Lord asks us to do the impossible, and we bring him all we have, he then works miracles).

[Jane_Doe]

Hi there, and welcome to the forums!

This is ultimately only a choice you can make.  My $0.02 would be to stick with EMS.  If you feel like you're too busy to do everything you have scheduled right now, I would fear that moving to stay-at-home seminary will effectively mean ditching seminary completely simply because you're so over booked an at-home thing is easy to procrastinate to non-exisistance.  I mean, let's be honest: how often do you do at-home by yourself scripture study for 10 minutes?  Do you really think you'll stay focused for 50 minutes a day 5 days a week?  (Obvious I don't know the answer to these questions, but for myself that idea is laughable).

My recommendation to your over-scheduling dilemma would be two fold:

1) Better time mastery.  Your schedule is much like mine in HS, except my fellow seminary students would carpool to school directly after seminary.  That way we'd be at school by 7:15 and have tons of time to do (procrastinated) homework before school started.  There's likely other ways you could optimize your time as well (ditch TV and social media).

2) If you're simply over-booked then you need to look ay your commitments and decide what is good and what is best.  For example, should you reduce your extra-circular course load?  

[anatess2]

Hi gdiculous!  Welcome!

My son went through the same trial as you.  He's in 10th grade now.  9th grade was a GINORMOUS adjustment period for him.  My son is not a morning person.  If you don't wake him up, he'll sleep until 10am.  On the weekends, he likes going to sleep around 2am...

So our seminary starts at 5:45am.  So I wake him up at 5AM.  He is still half asleep when he walks into seminary.  I am not a morning person either.  I go to bed at 3am most days, so waking up at 5am is extremely difficult for me.  So, I wake up bleary eyed at 5am, wake my kid up, and if he doesn't wake up, I go back to bed.  So, at first, my son missed a lot of seminary just because he can't wake up!

In addition to that, my son is in an Arts School.  So, this is high school academics plus the added load of his arts program.  They do performances every month (requires lots of time to master a piece to be good enough for performance) plus attending concerts and such as part of their graded curriculum.  In addition, my son chooses to perform in competitions to pad his resume for a college scholarship.  When he was in 9th grade, he had 3 AP classes as well and he can't get a C or lower in those because it will cause him to get kicked out of his arts program.

in addition to that, he was in competitive Jiujitsu training.  And then he was working towards his Eagle Scout.

It became just too much for him and he, just like you, contemplated stopping seminary.  He discussed it with me and my only advice to him was that he needs to have better time management skills, organizational skills, and prootization skills.  I taught him some skills I learned from my college years and my job on time management, organization, and prioritization.  Then I left him to make the decisions.

After some pondering and some prayer, my son decided to drop competitive jiujitsu.  He now just goes to the gym when he has the time to keep his skills fresh.  There was a time when he didn't go for 6 straight months.  Now, he attends 2 sessions a week usually, sometimes he skips a week, sometimes he spends an entire Saturday morning at the gym.  But he hasn't been in a competition in over a year.  He also slowed down his scouting track.  He just needs to do the Eagle project but he hasn't started it yet because he wants to do it when he can focus solely on it.  He stopped going to Scouts on Wednesdays.  He just attends the once a month mutuals.

In addition to that, he applied some of my teaching by putting a giant perpetual monthly work calendar in his room.  It took up an entire wall.  He put every single thing he has to do on that wall so he can clearly see what he has to do on that day and what days are getting overloaded.  He shifts things around by applying priorities - the least important gets dropped or moved to another day.  He even moves homework over sometimes getting late on those.  He goes and tells the teacher he can't get it done until x day because of y and a lot of times, he can get the teacher to excuse the late submission to get full credit.  Sometimes he just takes the late hit on the grade if it doesn't cause him to drop the average grade to a C.

One thing he never dropped was seminary.  He put that on red pen in his wall (highest priority).  He bore his testimony on it once.  He said going to seminary was hard at first but then one day he REALLY made the decision to attend seminary instead of just going because it was what was expected of him, then it became easy.  He said he made the decision to attend seminary because he wants to start every single school day with one right choice - to choose God.  So the rest of the day starts on the right foot.  He says there are days when it goes crappy but he can always look to attending seminary at 5:45am as one thing that did not go crap.

So, about seminary going late.  We have kids in our seminary that have to catch the bus at 6:40am right next to the church.  The have to leave at 6:30 to make it to that bus.  The class ends at 6:35.  They leave 5 minutes early everyday.  They still get full seminary credit.  My kid leaves seminary at 6:35am whether the class is finished or not.  His dad will be late to work if we don't leave on time.

Anyway, I'm still not a morning person but I wake up at 5Am because I love my son.  I drive him to seminary and I sleep in the car until he comes out and drive him home.  He will have his drivers license in 11th grade... I'm looking forward to that day!

If you want to talk to my son let me know and I'll have him come write to you on here.

Edited January 30, 2017 by anatess2

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

8 hours ago, gdiculous said:

I have an amazing teacher who gives great lessons, but he lets us out late (sometimes even 10 minutes after our normal let-out time, 6:50) so I don't have a lot of time to get ready. 

You've gotten some great suggestions already so I don't have much to add, but I wanted to say something about this.  

When class time is up, you could quietly, and unobtusively get up and slip out.  Just as if you were going to the bathroom.  No need to make a scene or interupt to excuse yourself, just slip out quietly.  

[gdiculous]

Thank you for your advice! I've already dropped an engineering class, but I have a lot of pressure from my teachers, parents, and school to excel with my grades and extracurriculars. I think I am going to continue with seminary for this year, and just see how the workload next year is.

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, gdiculous said:

Thank you for your advice! I've already dropped an engineering class, but I have a lot of pressure from my teachers, parents, and school to excel with my grades and extracurriculars. I think I am going to continue with seminary for this year, and just see how the workload next year is.

Hope it all works out for you.  Give that monthly work calendar a shot.  I have a feeling it would help even just to assuage your feelings of being overwhelmed.

Edited January 30, 2017 by anatess2

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, gdiculous said:

Thank you for your advice! I've already dropped an engineering class, but I have a lot of pressure from my teachers, parents, and school to excel with my grades and extracurriculars. I think I am going to continue with seminary for this year, and just see how the workload next year is.

I admire you commitment to the faith bro. Good luck! Keep us posted! 

[JohnsonJones]

I'll give a differing opinion here.  Early Morning Seminary was probably the worst choice I ever made.  I also did extensive after school activities and was up till very late at night.  The result of getting up so early stunted my growth (physically), and hurt my grades in several ways. 

If I had been allowed to do Seminary at home on my own time, for example on Weekends, I would have gotten more sleep, done better in school, and still graduated from Seminary.  Furthermore, as I actually had time on Weekends, I would have actually gotten something out of Seminary (as it was, I was normally half asleep at Seminary, and really didn't get anything beneficial from it, other than ending up passing out during my first and second period classes in high school, which didn't do much good for me academically).

I still got to BYU (now BYU-Utah), but if I could change something, I would want to have my parents not just ask, but beg, that I be allowed to do a home study program or something similar.  I don't think being in Seminary helped get into BYU, but the fact that I went to state in sports, was highly involved in other extracurricular activities, and then went on a Mission.  I don't think Seminary helped with my own spiritual growth as most of the time I was too tired to even know what they were talking about, much less get anything from it.  I got more from actually reading a manual, learning scripture mastery, and reading the scriptures themselves, all of which are part of the home seminary program.

I'm not advocating dumping Seminary, but I would advocate presenting your case to your Bishop and asking for an allowance to be able to have the home study program (with parental enforcement if necessary).  Even if you are on the home study program, you can STILL attend early morning seminary if you wish, the difference being, you are not enrolled there and still need to do your work.  However, if you enjoy the lectures and spirit, when you are not up as late at night, or when the sports seasons end, it means that you can attend but not have the pressure of having to attend.

IMO.

PS:  I still suggest doing and attending Seminary, but I can completely understand that 4-5 hours of sleep at night is actually more detrimental than helpful in many instances, especially for growing children and youth.  Being able to pay better attention to the material (in Seminary) in my opinion is more important than simply going to attend Seminary but not being able to pay as good attention in Seminary or at school.

Edited February 15, 2017 by JohnsonJones

[Jane_Doe]

48 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

If I had been allowed to do Seminary at home on my own time, for example on Weekends, I would have gotten more sleep, done better in school, and still graduated from Seminary.  Furthermore, as I actually had time on Weekends, I would have actually gotten something out of Seminary (as it was, I was normally half asleep at Seminary, and really didn't get anything beneficial from it, other than ending up passing out during my first and second period classes in high school, which didn't do much good for me academically).

Do you think you would have ACTUALLY devoted 5 hours of your Saturday each week to study scriptures?

[Vort]

1 hour ago, JohnsonJones said:

I still got to BYU (now BYU-Utah)

No, actually, it's still just BYU.

[JohnsonJones]

26 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Do you think you would have ACTUALLY devoted 5 hours of your Saturday each week to study scriptures?

With my parents...absolutely.

I took ballet from when I can remember to when I finally was given a choice in High School...and hated it...for 2 hours each Saturday.  What my parents wanted me to do...I did.

[Jane_Doe]

6 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

With my parents...absolutely.

I took ballet from when I can remember to when I finally was given a choice in High School...and hated it...for 2 hours each Saturday.  What my parents wanted me to do...I did.

So you would have done it... if your parents had *forced* you to do it.  I'm sorry, but that seems unhealthy.  And I don't know about you, but when I was a teenager, doing something because my parents were forcing me to was an instant recipe for me hating that activity, trying to squirm out of it, and generally raging war to make my life and my parents' miserable.  

[JohnsonJones]

1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

So you would have done it... if your parents had *forced* you to do it.  I'm sorry, but that seems unhealthy.  And I don't know about you, but when I was a teenager, doing something because my parents were forcing me to was an instant recipe for me hating that activity, trying to squirm out of it, and generally raging war to make my life and my parents' miserable.  

 

Not for me actually. I hated Ballet, but that doesn't apply to everything.  It would be the same as them having me go to church meetings on Sunday, or doing scouts.  I did what my parents wanted me to do, it doesn't mean I hated everything they wanted me to do.  I really wasn't motivated to do history reports when I was a kid, but my parents had me do my reports anyways (after a parent-teacher conference).  Turns out, I really enjoy history and ended up majoring in it.  So, it would have been more than telling me I needed to get it done and to do it than having any force of will.

Forcing was getting me up at 5:00 AM in the morning after I got to bed at 1 AM just prior to that.  Even then, I still went, I just see it wasn't actually beneficial compared to how it could have been if I had done it when I could actually have been well rested and paid attention.

 

[anatess2]

46 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

 

Not for me actually. I hated Ballet, but that doesn't apply to everything.  It would be the same as them having me go to church meetings on Sunday, or doing scouts.  I did what my parents wanted me to do, it doesn't mean I hated everything they wanted me to do.  I really wasn't motivated to do history reports when I was a kid, but my parents had me do my reports anyways (after a parent-teacher conference).  Turns out, I really enjoy history and ended up majoring in it.  So, it would have been more than telling me I needed to get it done and to do it than having any force of will.

Forcing was getting me up at 5:00 AM in the morning after I got to bed at 1 AM just prior to that.  Even then, I still went, I just see it wasn't actually beneficial compared to how it could have been if I had done it when I could actually have been well rested and paid attention.

 

Okay, I'm a mom so I have the perspective of both having been a kid and now being a mom.

The problem here is not the 5AM.  The problem here is you don't have a testimony of Seminary.  The sentiment that your extra-curriculars that resulted in an admittance to BYU was more beneficial to you while you got nothing out of Seminary is prima facie evidence of the missing testimony.  It wouldn't have mattered if it was 5AM every morning or 12-5PM every Saturday.  The testimony would still not be there.

Now, if I was your mom, I wouldn't go ask the bishop to do a home-study seminary.  Rather, I'd guide you towards gaining a testimony of Seminary.  Because, once you get that testimony of Seminary, 5AM Seminary is going to be something you wouldn't mind at all while you go rearrange everything else in your life.  And if AFTER you gain a testimony in seminary, I feel like you are missing out on... say, sports... then I'd go ask the Bishop to give you an alternate Seminary arrangement if I can't get alternate arrangements for your sports. 

As a mother, having you grow out of your teens without having taught you the benefits of spiritual pursuits over temporal pursuits is something I would consider as a failure in parenting.

 

Edited February 15, 2017 by anatess2

[Guest]

On 1/29/2017 at 8:04 PM, gdiculous said:

I am a freshman in high school, and attend early morning seminary. I'm trying to decide right now if I should continue with EMS or if I should try at-home seminary. I get up for seminary at 5:30 in the morning, and get home about 7:13 am. School starts at 9:00 am but I have to catch my bus at about 7:50. I do golf, UIL, and youth and government (mock trial court) and all GT/PreAP classes as well as one AP class (as that is all my school allows me to take). It's a heavy courseload, and I don't finish my homework normally until after midnight. I am always stressed, tired, and sick (but I can't stay home from school). I have missed so many days of seminary (and had to do the make-up work for it) that I don't know if going is the best option for me right now. I have an amazing teacher who gives great lessons, but he lets us out late (sometimes even 10 minutes after our normal let-out time, 6:50) so I don't have a lot of time to get ready. However, I really want to go to BYU Utah with a full scholarship. I look and feel terrible when I go to school, and it's starting to have a negative effect on my grades as I am partway through the second semester of 9th grade. It's also having a negative effect on my parents (who take turns driving me). My parents have tried talking to our bishop and the stake leader about online seminary, but that's not an option right now. If someone could give me some good advice on how to handle this situation, or even a link to seminary makeup work questions for the New Testament (because I have to type my own questions from the teacher manuel onto a Google Docs then answer them), that would be awesome!!

Aside from seminary, have you considered dropping some of those other extracurricular activities?

I understand that you want to go to BYU on full scholarship, and that is presumably why you are taking UIL, golf, and mock trial.  However, you are fifteen, and you said you are always sick and tired.  You should not be perpetually exhausted at fifteen.  Your late teenage years are some of the best years of your life, and you risk missing out on the fun by being overworked all the time!  Is it really worth shooting for a full scholarship and missing these fun years, or would it be better to risk a smaller scholarship and enjoy life while it happens?  Perhaps save the stress for medical school and enjoy your time as a teenager right now?  Because it won't last forever.

I don't know, but I question whether you really need UIL plus golf plus mock trial to get a full scholarship, or whether there is a point of diminished returns.  I don't know what getting a scholarship to BYU is like, but when I was young, I was in one single extracurricular activity - UIL Math, which I didn't take seriously but stuck with for some resume fodder.  I avoided sports like the plague.  I did, like you, take AP classes and kept my grades up for the most part (As and Bs).  I did really well on the PSAT (National Merit Commended, but not National Merit Scholar) and that was enough for a full scholarship.  Admittedly, this was 15 years ago and not at BYU, but I have no regrets - I am glad I enjoyed my time as a teenager and spent more time at the record store than studying for debate team or whatever.

In law school, I learned that most extracurricular activities are a waste of time, and the benefit of participating in them is not worth the time required to put in, which could be spent recharging my batteries through hanging out with my wife, watching movies, etc. and would allow me to perform better later on where it counts (grades).  I joined a law journal for resume fodder and avoided all of the stupid extracurricular stuff, like "Student Bar Association" or "Law School Softball Team" and all that garbage.  Perhaps that is how I got into the top quarter of my class!  

So maybe it is time to ask yourself if you can cut some of the fat in these extracurricular activities and still reach your goals, or even modify your goals a little?  Because you shouldn't be already burning the candle at both ends!  I definitely see some fat you can cut from your schedule, without cutting EMS.  Moreover, while you should work hard where it counts, there is much more to life than just work.  Keep that in mind.

Edited February 15, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[JohnsonJones]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

Okay, I'm a mom so I have the perspective of both having been a kid and now being a mom.

The problem here is not the 5AM.  The problem here is you don't have a testimony of Seminary.  The sentiment that your extra-curriculars that resulted in an admittance to BYU was more beneficial to you while you got nothing out of Seminary is prima facie evidence of the missing testimony.  It wouldn't have mattered if it was 5AM every morning or 12-5PM every Saturday.  The testimony would still not be there.

Now, if I was your mom, I wouldn't go ask the bishop to do a home-study seminary.  Rather, I'd guide you towards gaining a testimony of Seminary.  Because, once you get that testimony of Seminary, 5AM Seminary is going to be something you wouldn't mind at all while you go rearrange everything else in your life.  And if AFTER you gain a testimony in seminary, I feel like you are missing out on... say, sports... then I'd go ask the Bishop to give you an alternate Seminary arrangement if I can't get alternate arrangements for your sports. 

As a mother, having you grow out of your teens without having taught you the benefits of spiritual pursuits over temporal pursuits is something I would consider as a failure in parenting.

 

I GRADUATED from early morning seminary, and the results are why I think early morning seminary is NOT for everyone.  My mother DID have me go to early morning seminary, and the results of it are why I would offer an alternate to anyone in a similar situation.  I was the ONLY one that got into BYU in my area that were in my situation, primarily because early morning effected the grades and abilities of others so drastically. 

BYU was actually, and ironically, one of my last choices of schools.  I had the opportunity for a full ride to Dartmouth, but my mother wanted me to go to BYU (yes, I guess I was pretty obedient to my parents).  I may be an anomaly, but I tried to do what my parents would want me to do.  The opportunities I got out of High School were despite going to seminary, not because of it. 

I would say, going on a mission does FAR more for someone's testimony and building them up than being an early morning seminary graduate, especially if you are involved as much in school and other activities.

There should be balance in ALL things.  You should not have to sacrifice your physical health, nor your academics simply because you have to go to an early morning class which could easily be done on a Saturday or at another time where it won't be as detrimental.  Due to the hours, my growth was literally stunted.  I grew 4-6 inches LESS than the estimated height I should have grown to.  I can literally say, going to early morning seminary did me physical harm.

That's not balanced, that's extreme.  When  one proposes that one do something and it causes harm to that person...something is wrong.  We complain about other ideas and things that cause harm (mental and physical) to individuals in other arenas, it does not suddenly become the right thing to do when it is something we do to our own children.

Early morning seminary is a fine program, but for those who have academics and lives that already take a LOT of time on the week days, there should be an alternative.  Utah and some parts of Idaho have released time Seminary, and there is also home seminary programs.  We are not talking kids that are apostate or are not going to try to do their best for seminary (and I wasn't one of those, as I said, I DID graduate from Seminary, but I can see the very bad effects early morning seminary did, NOT seminary, it is specifically the early morning hours that early morning seminary demanded vs. the rigorous schedule I already had), we are talking kids that NEED their sleep and Seminary is not allowing that.

In the example above, if school starts at 9 AM, why is seminary at 5:30 (I had a similar situation).  There is NO reason for it to be that early.  7:30 to 8:30 is more than enough time, with 30 minutes to get to school.  For those who don't get to bed until after midnight, you are talking 4 to 5.5 hours of sleep a night when it is so early.  That's not normal, that's extreme and unhealthy.

I would NEVER suggest to any child to have that little sleep, nor suggest that they consider that a good schedule.  It is harmful and detrimental.  In that situation, there NEEDS to be an alternative situation, and the solution isn't always to drop sports or extracurricular activities.

IF they could do home seminary, why NOT have that as an option?  Why does it have to be early morning seminary rather than a church approved program that others utilize for seminary all over the world?

My wife on the otherhand, went to early morning seminary and it was stellar for her.  It was a very good influence on her life.  Early morning seminary is a good program, however, in some situations, an alternate SHOULD be considered from my viewpoint.

 

PS: I should add, that in my area, we lived far enough away from where Seminary was that there was an option for home seminary, and students DID take that.  Of those that went through the home study seminary program, there were two others that went to BYU.  My parents felt that early morning was a necessity, and that's why I went.  From my experiences of that, my thoughts are to first consider your health and academics, and then how best the church programs fit into your schedule.  Home study Seminary is actually ALSO a very good program, and as I said, as Early Morning does NOT exclude people from going, you can still attend early morning seminary as your schedule allows, it merely means that you aren't sabotaging your health or school because of it.

Edited February 15, 2017 by JohnsonJones

[Guest MormonGator]

6 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

I had the opportunity for a full ride to Dartmouth,

Wow! How did get that opportunity? That's amazing! 

Edited February 15, 2017 by MormonGator

[anatess2]

7 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

I GRADUATED from early morning seminary, and the results are why I think early morning seminary is NOT for everyone.

Graduation from seminary doesn't indicate a testimony of Seminary.

Most every single Young Man/Young Woman in our ward attended 5AM Seminary.  Most of them have various activities outside of Church.  Our previous bishop's 4 boys attended Seminary.  All of them are over 6 feet tall.  All of them are into sports and band, one of them going to State Championship swim team.  Swim meets are one of the most time extensive sports activities second only to gymnastics.

Seminary doesn't make you short.  Bad time management makes you short.

Edited February 15, 2017 by anatess2

[Guest]

I have a couple of questions: 

1.) How hard is it to get into BYU these days?  Posts here make it sound like getting into Harvard or something.

2.) If BYU is that hard to get into, is it really worth it?  I don't know because I never applied and attended a couple of Texas universities instead, but if getting into BYU were to become some kind of all-consuming thing, I think I would have opted for the University of Utah instead.  Besides, I like having a beard and don't like having my life being closely regulated by a school, of all things.  Call it my anti-authoritarian Texas roots!

Edited February 15, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[anatess2]

13 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

I have a couple of questions: 

1.) How hard is it to get into BYU these days?  Posts here make it sound like getting into Harvard or something.

2.) If BYU is that hard to get into, is it really worth it?  I don't know because I never applied and attended a couple of Texas universities instead, but if getting into BYU were to become some kind of all-consuming thing, I think I would have opted for the University of Utah instead.  Besides, I like having a beard and don't like having my life being closely regulated by a school, of all things. 

From what I see in our ward, the hardest part about getting accepted to BYU is finishing seminary.  The thing is, all the kids in our ward that I know who attend seminary also have either AP or IB high school courses.  That gets you a good foot in that door.  And then they get some endorsement from the Bishop, YM President, etc.  An Eagle Scout gets another good foot in that door and good writing ability (which all AP and IB grads are good at).  All of the youth in our ward that I know who applied to BYU got accepted to BYU.  All of the ones that applied to SVU (seems like this is popular in our Young Women) got accepted to SVU.  The thing is, getting accepted to either BYU or SVU is like getting a scholarship because of the super cheap rates for Mormons.

Of course, not all of our youth who got accepted to BYU, attended BYU or completed undergrad at BYU.  Several of them go to BYU for a year, go on a mission, then don't go back to finish their college there.

 

Edited February 15, 2017 by anatess2

[Guest]

Just now, anatess2 said:

From what I see in our ward, the hardest part about getting accepted to BYU is finishing seminary.  The thing is, all the kids in our ward that I know who attend seminary also have either AP or IB high school courses.  That gets you a good foot in that door.  And then they get some endorsement from the Bishop, YM President, etc.  An Eagle Scout gets another good foot in that door and good writing ability (which all AP and IB grads are good at).  All of the youth in our ward that I know who applied to BYU got accepted to BYU.  All of the ones that applied to SVU (seems like this is popular in our Young Women) got accepted to SVU.  The thing is, getting accepted to either BYU or SVU is like getting a scholarship because of the super cheap rates for Mormons.

 

That's a good point - if BYU is subsidized, that may be good reason alone to shoot for it (and yes, to keep my face clean shaven for four more years).

[JohnsonJones]

1.  When I attended BYU, my class actually was a pretty big deal.  Getting into Harvard that year had an average SAT of 1250 and an average GPA of 3.5.

My entering BYU class had an average SAT of 1250 as well, but also an average GPA of 3.72 in comparison.

That was years ago, before the SAT score changes.  I hear it is not as hard to get in as that today.

2.  It depends on why you go.  For me, yes it was worth it.  I did it because my mother REALLY wanted me to go, and doing what she wanted me to do is important to me.

For some, they go because they want to be around Mormons (and for those in the area I grew up in, that is a REALLY good idea, as even at the institute there were probably a maximum of around 20-30 active Mormon students).  It may be their first and only chance to be around a lot of other LDS members who share the common aspect of their religion.

For others, the reasons are similar to why a school may be the right fit for them at other locations.

For some, they are hardcore BYU fans (which describes my wife) who's entire family are massive BYU fans.

For some, they like the academics of the school, and want to go there (at the time I was there, the accounting school was second in the nation, I think BYU was silver tiered, meaning it was not in the top 50 schools in the US, but the top 100 schools for undergraduate, and I think it was in the top 30 for Law Schools at the time).

As with many things in life, the answer is, it depends on the reasons you are going there in first place.

I don't know how heavy seminary is weighted into that, but I don't think it's that heavy.

If you are really good in sports, I feel that plays a FAR heavier role than seminary (at least from those I knew in sports at BYU, several who were NOT seminary graduates, some who didn't even attend seminary, but they DID have sports scholarships).  At the time I went, I think location (as in, where you were in the world) also played a role, with those being further from Utah have a better chance then those from Utah (I do not know about now).  The further away from Utah you were, I think grades and extracurricular also played a heavier role in getting in.  Everyone from Utah that I knew had 4.0 GPAs or higher (with APs) or close to that.

All in all, once again, it really is dependent on the person on whether it is worth it or not.

 

[JohnsonJones]

21 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Wow! How did get that opportunity? That's amazing! 

To be honest, I suspect it had to do with my violin and sports involvement (as I said, went to state).  I believe one condition was I'd have to be part of their music and play the violin if I remember, but other than that, I don't really know, except that they really wanted me to go there?

My top choice at the time was actually probably one of the banes of your of existence...UGA (university of Georgia).  Though it may be that UGA has a bigger idea of itself towards FL than FL has towards GA.

Still a UGA fan to this day.

I also considered Georgia Tech, Oglethorpe, and several other universities.  Dartmouth was just one of many that I applied for.  At the time, I actually didn't even realize what or who Dartmouth was, or I may have put them higher on my list of consideration.  I'd have still probably gone to BYU, as I said, my mother REALLY wanted me to go there.  She actually was the one that sent for the application, got me to fill it out, and it was SHE who sent it in. 

The most ironic thing, is that she prays for Utah (UofU) basketball and thinks that's the Lord's team.

[Guest MormonGator]

16 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

To be honest, I suspect it had to do with my violin and sports involvement

Wow. Very cool!

I'm from NH and I know how hard it is to get into Dartmouth, much less get a full scholarship. In fact, I've never heard of it happening because there are no scholarships given to Ivy League athletes (http://www.ivyleague.com/information/psa/index) . So your violin skills must have been great! 

Edited February 15, 2017 by MormonGator