Boy Scouts allowing transgender individuals

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Here is an article with BSA commissioner Charles Dahlquist.  Dahlquist was also YM General President until relatively recently.  So it sounds like the Chirch is on board with this BSA policy change.

I disagree with your interpretation of the "on board with".  I believe this is exactly the same as the change for homosexual scouts.  The Church did not want to do it.  But because it was forced on them, and the leadership "assured" the GAs that each individual charter/organization can make its own choice about it.  They're giving us the same discretion here.

It seems that the BSA is making a policy change wholly to prevent lawsuits from flaring up.  The BSA has specifically been denied a religious exemption because they are not considered a religious organization.  But churches can refuse this directive and they are protected from lawsuits by law as a religious entity.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Growing up the Scouts were considered :: gasp :: sort of uncool and old fashioned. 

OH!  Say it ain't so!!!

(raises hand) guilty as charged.

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

OH!  Say it ain't so!!!

(raises hand) guilty as charged.

Like I said, it's nothing personal and I know you won't take it as such (nothing but love for my boy @Carborendum) but if I felt that way almost thirty years ago, then I guarantee some kids think that way now. 

Edited January 31, 2017 by MormonGator

[NightSG]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

Like I said, it's nothing personal and I know you won't take it as such (nothing but love for my boy @Carborendum) but if I felt that way almost thirty years ago, then I guarantee some kids think that way now. 

Yeah, but thanks to changes like this, (and most of the other changes since the 1930s) they're right now.

[Anddenex]

Church's statement, "At this time, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will go forward as a chartering organization of BSA, and as in the past, will appoint Scout leaders and volunteers who uphold and exemplify church doctrine, values and standards. With equal concern for the substantial number of youth who live outside the United States and Canada, the church will continue to evaluate and refine program options that better meet its global needs.” (emphasis added, statement made in 2015 regarding previous decision)

The Church is probably already making plans to initiate a Church wide program for the young men similar to other aspects within the Church. I feel sorrow for the BSA and the position they find themselves in, due to an over aggressive minority seeking to force people to accept their choices; however, I wish they would have stood their ground. It is hard to have "and morally straight" in decisions they have made.

In the meantime, we move forward.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Anddenex

[mirkwood]

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I'm keeping my boys in only because it is still the activity arm of the YM.  But I'm not giving any money to FOS or anything other than is what is minimally required to have activities.  I'm seriously considering ending all our involvement with scouting soon.

Waaaayyyyy ahead of you on this.

FOS drives go like this at my house: Br. Mirk we already know what you are going to say, I just have to call so I can say we contacted you.  I also ask how much our troop needs and tell them I'd be happy to donate directly to the troop fund.

 

[Just_A_Guy]

5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I disagree with your interpretation of the "on board with".  I believe this is exactly the same as the change for homosexual scouts.  The Church did not want to do it.  But because it was forced on them, and the leadership "assured" the GAs that each individual charter/organization can make its own choice about it.  They're giving us the same discretion here.

It seems that the BSA is making a policy change wholly to prevent lawsuits from flaring up.  The BSA has specifically been denied a religious exemption because they are not considered a religious organization.  But churches can refuse this directive and they are protected from lawsuits by law as a religious entity.

I'm sure you're right, insofar as if the Church had its druthers this wouldn't even be an issue.  But Dahlquist strikes me as being a bit too-well-connected, and cheerleading a bit too loudly, for this to have been done over the church's express objection.

That said, I continue to wear my Robert Gates White Feather on my Cubmaster uniform.

 

Edited February 1, 2017 by Just_A_Guy

[askandanswer]

On 1/31/2017 at 0:11 PM, MormonGator said:

I'd rather take a shotgun blast to the stomach than go camping 

Last weekend we had a family trip to the far south coast of New South Wales and found some great camping places. How about you and me go camping there next Easter? 

[Just_A_Guy]

17 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Do you know if the Scouts will even be here in twenty years? Not an insult, I just don't think it's as popular as it was in the past. Parents might pull their kids out with this latest ruling, so I'm not sure it'l help enrollment. 

Sure they will.  Take out the Mormons and you've still got two million kids.  That doesn't just go away.  There will always be a subset of kids attracted to the structure and outdoors experience that BSA offers.  I suspect that most of those who were going to leave have already left; and (aside from the LDS, and who knows what the church will do?) you won't see another mass defection until the BSA denies individual units the right to determine their own membership policies (I still think that is coming, but if Trump's other judicial picks are like his SCOTUS pick we may have bought another decade or two).

The more immediate threat to Scouting, I think, is its saturation with bureaucrats who neither know nor care about the boys or BSA values; and just want BSA to run like any other corporation--focusing on organization size, growing revenues, and minimalizing liability; with little regard to giving value to the boys or support to the leaders in the trenches at the unit level. 

Edited February 1, 2017 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

The more immediate threat to Scouting, I think, is its saturation with bureaucrats who neither know nor care about the boys or BSA values; and just want BSA to run like any other corporation--focusing on organization size, growing revenues, and minimalizing liability; with little regard to giving value to the boys or support to the leaders in the trenches at the unit level. 

Funny thing is that I had a co-worker who was heavy into scouting (life long).  One of his gripes about Mormons was that "the Mormons keep trying to make Scouting a Mormon program.  But it's not just about you Mormons."

I guess he didn't know about the role Mormons played in the history of scouting.  It was the Church that took a fledgling social organization and turned it into what it is today.  We are the largest financial supporter of scouting.  We go back and forth with the Lutherans as to the number of units and scouts in the organization (but it's usually us).  And we've always been a huge part of the leadership in that bureaucracy.

No, without the Church, it not only would never have grown into what it is today, but it will dwindle into obscurity should we choose to leave.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Guest

[Just_A_Guy]

12 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Funny thing is that I had a co-worker who was heavy into scouting (life long).  One of his gripes about Mormons was that "the Mormons keep trying to make Scouting a Mormon program.  But it's not just about you Mormons."

I guess he didn't know about the role Mormons played in the history of scouting.  It was the Church that took a fledgling social organization and turned it into what it is today.  We are the largest financial supporter of scouting.  We go back and forth with the Lutherans as to the number of units and scouts in the organization (but it's usually us).  And we've always been a huge part of the leadership in that bureaucracy.

No, without the Church, it not only would never have grown into what it is today, but it will dwindle into obscurity should we choose to leave.

As with so many other things; many progressives seem to want conservative/religious folk to do the leg-work of building their big shiny social institutions and funding them in perpetuity, while ceding the actual control (and profit, if any) pertaining to such institutions to our more progressive social betters.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Just_A_Guy

[NightSG]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

It was the Church that took a fledgling social organization and turned it into what it is today.

A pathetic shell of its former self?

[Guest MormonGator]

7 hours ago, askandanswer said:

Last weekend we had a family trip to the far south coast of New South Wales and found some great camping places. How about you and me go camping there next Easter? 

When the phone doesn't ring, you'll know it's me calling. 

[zil]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

The more immediate threat to Scouting, I think, is its saturation with bureaucrats who neither know nor care about the boys or BSA values; and just want BSA to run like any other corporation--focusing on organization size, growing revenues, and minimalizing liability; with little regard to giving value to the boys or support to the leaders in the trenches at the unit level.

Isn't this the threat to pretty much everything on the planet?

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, zil said:

Isn't this the threat to pretty much everything on the planet?

Absolutely true #3. 

I feel differently than JAG does. I think the Boy Scouts are on life support. With this ruling combined with the changing culture of youth in general I just don't see how they can continue. No, that's not an insult to JAG or anyone who enjoys the Scouts-just my observations. 

[zil]

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I feel differently than JAG does. I think the Boy Scouts are on life support. With this ruling combined with the changing culture of youth in general I just don't see how they can continue. No, that's not an insult to JAG or anyone who enjoys the Scouts-just my observations. 

I have no idea.  Maybe I should declare myself a 14-year-old boy and find out.   (Maybe the bishop would feel compelled to release me - I mean, you really can't have a 14-year-old boy in charge of RS.)

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, zil said:

I have no idea.  Maybe I should declare myself a 14-year-old boy and find out.   (Maybe the bishop would feel compelled to release me - I mean, you really can't have a 14-year-old boy in charge of RS.)

I think you need to meet with the compound psychiatrist.

[NightSG]

5 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I feel differently than JAG does. I think the Boy Scouts are on life support. With this ruling combined with the changing culture of youth in general I just don't see how they can continue.

Already a lost cause; "to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight" is an unattainable goal in the current organization.

Can't be physically strong without some risk of injury, and the lawyers won't allow that.  Anyone denying the reality between their legs isn't mentally awake, and morally straight offends too many amoral people.

[askandanswer]

On 24/01/2017 at 3:29 AM, zil said:

 Fountain pen + paper = the best option for planning world domination.  

 

On 02/02/2017 at 2:13 AM, zil said:

Isn't this the threat to pretty much everything on the planet?

I thought you were that threat, with your plans for world domination?

[paracaidista508]

Ha this circus gets better by the day. I suppose sometime soon the FOS folks are going to start beating us up over donating so they can build a 3rd bathroom at each scout camp.

 

[yjacket]

Screw the BSA; I'm so incredibly disgusted with this once fine, moral upstanding organization.  Words are not adequate for my level of disgust. My God have mercy on this country for the sickness of evil that has and continues to infiltrate it. 

I'm a former Eagle Scout, National Jamboree, World Jamboree, palms, etc.  I'm done with the BSA as an organization-they can go and die.

[Suzie]

Well, is it a surprise if I say the inclusion of transgender children do not bother me at all?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

6 hours ago, Suzie said:

Well, is it a surprise if I say the inclusion of transgender children do not bother me at all?

Suzie!!!!  Great to see you!  

[unixknight]

On 2/8/2017 at 1:20 AM, paracaidista508 said:

Ha this circus gets better by the day. I suppose sometime soon the FOS folks are going to start beating us up over donating so they can build a 3rd bathroom at each scout camp.

 

3rd?  Heh at this rate there are so many more, new made up genders we may as well have a 3 story outhouse with more toilets than the world's 5 tallest office buildings combined...

[mordorbund]

9 hours ago, unixknight said:

3rd?  Heh at this rate there are so many more, new made up genders we may as well have a 3 story outhouse with more toilets than the world's 5 tallest office buildings combined...

Just so long as I get the top floor....